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Explaining the Shooting of Governor John Connally
Shown on FreeRepublic for the first time. | October 25, 2006 | Bill Charleston

Posted on 10/25/2006 7:54:41 AM PDT by BILL_C

It’s fall, the temperature is falling, the leaves are turning and with November here, we have some repeats to watch on the cable networks.

The History Channel will show one of their favorites, ABC’s documentary “Beyond Conspiracy” featuring Peter Jennings and a computer animation which shows a bullet that hit President Kennedy’s back four inches below his collar but then the bullet allegedly exited his neck after nicking the upper part of the knot of his tie, and then it goes down at approximately a 25 degree down angle to hit Governor Connally in his back. It’s amazing what computers can show.

We’ll also most likely see the Discovery Channel’s explanation of the assassination in “Beyond the Magic Bullet.” This show also features Dale Meyers’ computer animation, the same one used in “Beyond Conspiracy.” The show goes beyond the previous documentary as the producers go to Australia to get an expert shooter to attempt to duplicate the magic bullet, the shot that hit both JFK and Governor Connally. The shots they fire are aimed at figures composed of material which act like human muscle and bone when a bullet is fired into them.

Both of these shows think they proved the magic bullet theory is true.

Watch the digitized and stablilized Zapruder Film

The Closeup Zapruder Film with Frame #

For over 40 years we’ve heard and seen documentaries which talk about strange details in the JFK assassination investigation and reports. We first had the Warren Commission appointed by President Johnson with the main purpose to show that a lone gunman fired three shots at the limousine and wounded JFK, Governor Connally and a bystander too. We then had the House Subcommittee on Assassinations investigation in 1978 which investigated additional evidence in part because the Zapruder film was first shown to the American public on night TV in 1975. One of the newer pieces of evidence was the finding that the Dallas Police radio channel recorded a stuck open microphone during the time of the assassination and may have actually recorded the actual gunshots.

In 1991 the movie “JFK” again ignited the public’s curiosity about the assassination with “back and to the right” along with witnesses saying they saw another gunman. The government again responded and gave us the Records Review Act which released even more information about the murder. In 1997, the Zapruder film was digitized and now we can see even more details in the film. And in 2001, a statistical analysis was published concerning the Dallas Police recording with the finding there were five shots captured by the recording. A gunshot and it’s reflections off objects is like a fingerprint in that it’s fairly unique and dependent on where the shooter is and where the microphone is that captured the sounds, and the objects such as buildings that the sounds reflect off of.

Although we’ve heard about “discrepancies” for years in documentaries such as the “Men Who Killed Kennedy,” we’ve also had some documentaries disappear from the airways as the History Channel found them not to be accurate such as the “Guilty Men”, a documentary that fingered Vice-President Johnson and other cronies in a Texas murder ring.

The story in my opinion will not die as so many of the “facts” don’t seem to fit reality. We need to see something that makes sense.

Last year I met with one of the best known critics of the Warren Commission. I showed Dr. Cyril Wecht that one assumption made in the killing had led virtually everyone to make incorrect conclusions in the case. That assumption is that all of Governor Connally’s wounds were caused by one bullet when in fact Governor Connally was wounded by two separate shots which were both fired from the Texas School Book Depository. Dr. Wecht’s questions and observations led me to do more research which I’m still working on.

But what I want to show you today is when Governor Connally was wounded, something that has never been shown correctly on any of the documentaries or in any of the books that I’ve reviewed. You see, experts such as Dr. Wecht have been arguing about what did not happen. Instead, let’s show you what actually did happen.

To do that, I think the best place to start is with the last shot.

To briefly familiarize you with the Zapruder Film frame numbers, Z frame number 313 will be called Z313. The following are a few major frame numbers for familiarization.

Z=133 We first see the Limo in the film

Z=160 Some theorize the first shot from the Texas School Book Depository, we see Gov. Connally’s head movement to the right shortly afterwards

Z=220 We first see President Kennedy emerge from behind the sign, clutching his throat and obviously wounded

Z=223 Governor Connally reacts to his first wound

Z=220 to Z=324 Governor Connally turns to look over his shoulder toward what he thinks are gunshots

Z=313 We see the fatal shot to President Kennedy

Z=325 Governor Connally is hit in the back and driven forward

With the film speed of 18.3 frames/second, things happened quickly, too quick for 1960’s technology and the lack of accurate information they had to extract the truth. What we can see now in individual frames captured and edited was not possible even a few years ago when everything was analogue. And of course, nobody looked at Governor Connally closely after JFK's head shot at Z=313. Most everyone was sure all the serious action was over.

To those of you who remember the basic scenarios of the Warren Commission and the other numerous theories, the descriptions shown above concerning Connally’s wounds are new. And as I’ll show you, it isn’t a theory, it’s the only times Governor Connally could have been wounded in the eight seconds from the first shot until the last was fired.

With literally thousands of books and hour after hour of documentaries on what must surely be the most investigated murder in history, at this time let’s concentrate on Governor Connally’s wounds. Once you understand the only way possible that Governor Connally could have been wounded based on the facts we have, then not only can we understand how both men were wounded, it will once and for all reveal how the Guilty Men pulled this off.

The first question concerns the last shot shown above at Z=325. The Warren Commission concluded the last shot was the fatal head shot at Z=313 but was faced with testimony such as one of the best witnesses, Secret Service agent Roy Kellerman who sat in the Limo directly in front of Governor Connally. During his Warren Commission testimony, Kellerman spoke of the ending of the shooting as a “flurry” of shots. When pressed for how many, he said two. He described the spacing of the last two shots as bang-bang. When Arlen Specter pressed him again, he said it was like an airplane breaking the sound barrier (the front of the plane breaks the sound barrier before the rear of the plane, hence you hear bang-bang also).

When Arlen Specter asked the spacing between the first shot and the flurry of shots, Kellerman said three to five seconds.

When we look at the Zapruder film, we see at Z=325 the collapse forward and downward movement of Connally’s head. Looking at the sequence in real time, we see Connally driven quickly forward with his head snapping forward when he is shot. Further confirmation is given when you look at the analysis of the Dallas Police Recording. The difference between the Z=313 shot and the last shot is 0.7 seconds or approximately 12 frames.

We now have a credible witness, a recording, and the best motion picture of the assassination showing agreement that a shot was fired at Z=325.

But listen to a recent explanation of the Zapruder film factoring in the Dallas Police Recording. The reasons for Dr. Thomas' confusion and his trying to cling to the Warren Commission's are easily explained, but I'll leave that for later. Listen to the description of the last shot, "fired almost simultaneously" but they didn't even look to see what it might have done.

The Zapruder Film and the Dallas Police Recording per the Main Stream Media

A Warren Commission supporter will tell you that Governor Connally could not have been shot after Kennedy was shot because his leg wound does not line up with the shot trajectory through his body and through his right wrist. And, of course, there were only three bullets fired from the TSBD.

The hole in their argument is that Connally was indeed wounded earlier by a bullet fragment which entered Governor Connally’s leg. And note the importance of the fact to this investigation that it was a bullet fragment, not an intact bullet. That Connally was hit by a bullet fragment to his left leg is well documented but many of today’s documentaries incorrectly describe that the left leg wound was caused by an intact bullet which then fell out of his leg later at the hospital.

Three bullet fragments were found under Nellie Connally’s seat (CE840), who sat directly to the left of Governor Connally. It’s therefore credible that the bullet fragment that John Connally’s left leg is from the CE840 shot.

To test this “theory” against the Warren Commission’s, I took some of the better known observations in the JFK assassination list and compared the Z=325 scenario against the Warren Commission scenario. This is a quick way to see how facts fit against both theories.

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Observation

 

Warren Commission Three Shots

Z=325 Shot to Connally’s back

 

 

 

Connally turns in his seat and looks back at JFK Z=230 to Z=324

No (1)

Yes

Connally holds hat in his hand until at least

Z=325

No

Yes

Nellie and John Connally both said John

Was shot after JFK’s first wound (3)

No

Yes

Connally falls forward as he describes in later

Interviews when he is shot

No

Yes

Three shots were fired from the TSBD

Yes

Yes

Several Witnesses saw shooter(s) at the Grassy

Knoll

No

Yes

Agrees with Dallas Police Recording

No

Yes

Kellerman Described “flurry of shots”

No

Yes

JFK and Connally both react to Z=222 shot

Yes

Yes

Connally bullet left wide scar to his back like

the bullet was tumbling

Yes (4)

No

Bullet to JFK’s back did not have a point of exit (5).

No

Yes

 

 

 

(1) If seriously wounded at approximately Z=220, this turn would be incredible for a man wounded so seriously.

(2) Connally’s right wrist is allegedly broken by the shot at Z=220, it’s not reasonable to believe he could hold his hat for over 5 seconds

(3) Both Nellie and John Connally were actually very sure he was not wounded by the same bullet that first struck JFK. At a showing of the Zapruder film, John Connally guessed that he was wounded closer to Z=238. If the Dallas Police recording is valid, there is no shot fired at that time. Roy Kellerman’s testimony also stated that it was 3-5 seconds before the last two shots after the first.

(4) The Single Bullet supporters such as Dr. Latimer use this as support that the bullet which hit Gov. Connally in the back struck something else first. Experimental shots show that a bullet passing through tissue like JFK’s upper body tends to roll over; hence the wider scar that was left in Gov. Connally’s back. This is not proof, however, that the bullet struck something else before it entered John Connally’s back.

(5) FBI agent O’Neal described the autopsy discovery of the bullet wound to Kennedy’s back and then said no point of exit was discovered by probing with both the doctor’s finger and instruments.

The above table indicates based on some of the information commonly discussed concerning the assassination that the Z=325 scenario has merit. When you look at the location of the shot to JFK’s back (four inches below the collar) and the fact that after exiting his neck, the bullet next has to be traveling at a 25 degree down angle; this is probably the major reason the single bullet theory has been so disbelieved.

Is that enough of an introduction? I’ll tell you later the rest of the story as for this to be credible, there had to be at least six shots with three different shooters according to one of the doctors involved in the Warren Commission investigation. But as I’ve shown so far, Governor Connally’s left leg wound was caused by a bullet which fragmented and hit both JFK and Governor Connally.

That reduces to five shots and three different shooters, three shots from the TSBD and two shots from the front of the limo, fired by two different shooters. And funny thing is, there were witnesses who saw them!

To give you a hint about the rest of the story, in Tip O’Neal’s book, “The Man of the House” he discusses a conversation with JFK aid Kenny O’Donnell who said he was quite sure there were two shot fired from the front. O’Donnell also tells why he did not tell the Warren Commission what he saw and heard when he testified.

The cover-up and the misinformation supplied by the government is as interesting as the shooting analysis itself. You see, for the government to get the investigation this wrong with testimony so clear, there had to be some interesting arm twisting going on. Arlen Specter, do you even today have a clue what you did? And Gerald Ford, the lone surviving member of the Warren Commission, you have to know something, don’t you? Or did both of you keep your heads buried in the sand as you were manipulated by the Guilty Men? The truth is buried in a Conspiracy of Silence, just like Dr. Crenshaw said in the first book I read on the subject.

And how could the major news media keep getting this so wrong? "We" will deal with you later.

If you check Tip O’Neal’s book, “The Man of the House”, you’ll see that he talks about Kenny O’Donnell’s description in the book of two shots that were fired from the front. Since O’Donnell was in one of the cars behind JFK’s, he had a unique position and describes later to Tip O’Neal why he did not tell what he saw correctly to the Warren Commission.

Now let’s look at the individual frames and see Connelly’s head snap downward immediately after the bullet hits him in the back. I drew a white line through the back of his head in each frame to make the rapid movement of his head clearer. This is the first time to my knowledge that this head movement has been documented. With 18.2 frames per second, it would be virtually impossible for Connally’s head to collapse without an external force.

Z=324 Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Z=325 Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Z=326 Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Z=327 Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Z=328 Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Now that you see in just a couple of frames how Governor Connally's head rolled down as he was ducking forward from the Z=313 shot that hit JFK in the head, listen to his description of how he was thrown forward as he was shot in the back.

A interview with Connally describing how he was shot

As you listen to Connally's description, the part about how he was hit in the back and thrown forward by the force of the bullet agrees with the Z=325 shot to Connally's back scenario very well, but then Govenor Connally goes on to describe how he then hears the fatal shot to JFK's head.

One of the reasons that this issue has been so confusing for so long is that many of the witnesses only got parts of what they said correct. Governor Connally, for example, did not see the head shot to President Kennedy as he was looking forward as he was turning to look over his left shoulder but he clearly says in his interview clip that JFK was shot after his back wound was received. Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman says he heard one shot followed by 3-5 seconds then two shots, bang-bang. Kellerman argues with Specter later trying to reason there had to be more shots than three but Kellerman never says he heard more than three. The shots Kellerman identifies are number 3, 4 and 5. Shot 3 fragments and hits both JFK and wounds Connally in the left leg with a bullet fragment, shot 4 is the fatal head shot at Z=313, and shot 5 is the shot to Connally's back at Z=325.

And later when other details are explained, the actual killers will be exposed. No investigation could get this so wrong without some serious arm twisting.


TOPICS: Conspiracy
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I have been in contact with several JFK researchers over the last couple of years. The visit I made to see Dr. Wecht in Pittsburgh last year was very helpful to me and it was a pleasure to meet with him. There are others however who are not even willing to discuss this scenario, after all, I'm just an engineer in South Carolina. What could I add?

When we get to the point where we can animate Governor Connally being shot from behind in Z=325, we'll be able to show on a computer animation that the shooter at Z=313 from the front hit JFK and knocked him back and to his left. The Shooter in the TSBD (Texas School Book Depository) pulled the trigger shortly after that shot and missed JFK that he was aiming at.

The fact that there were 3 closely space shots before the Limo emerges from behind the sign and then a space of almost five seconds followed by two closely spaced shots shows the sophistication of the shooting plan: Two preplanned killing zones.

The "experts" in the JFK case can continue their Conspiracy of Silence but by me going directly to the Public, and starting with FREEREPUBLIC, we, the public, will shame them into the truth.

I've shown this scenario to hundreds of people the last few years and "Obvious" is the word I would use for many reactions. But, I have had some who simply refuse to believe that our goverment would do this.

I also think just by knowing how Connally is shot reveals who the killer really was.

So how do you know you have the right answer? That's when "most" of the facts, the witnesses, the physical evidence and the observations make sense. Everyone who has spent any significant time studying, or even observing the documentaries, knows that the details just don't work. This piece of the puzzle fits very well, nothing else does.

1 posted on 10/25/2006 7:54:43 AM PDT by BILL_C
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To: BILL_C

Elvis did it


2 posted on 10/25/2006 7:55:36 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: BILL_C

It's been said if JFK's grave was dug up you'd find nothing in the coffin. It's been said his body was put in a lead coffin and dropped in the Atlantic Ocean. The wounds left in his bones would prove the warren commission was nothing more than one big coverup.


3 posted on 10/25/2006 8:02:36 AM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: BILL_C

Very interesting! Bookmarked.


4 posted on 10/25/2006 8:02:49 AM PDT by cvq3842
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To: BILL_C
"we, the public, will shame them into the truth."

Would, Sir, that THEY were Capable of shame......Lost Cause I fear.

5 posted on 10/25/2006 8:02:51 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo long)
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To: AppyPappy

Elvis did it?

I think you'll find that this is a little more serious than that! In fact, the actual shooting scenario has never been shown or described correctly before.


6 posted on 10/25/2006 8:04:21 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: BILL_C
The show goes beyond the previous documentary as the producers go to Australia to get an expert shooter to attempt to duplicate the magic bullet, the shot that hit both JFK and Governor Connally. The shots they fire are aimed at figures composed of material which act like human muscle and bone when a bullet is fired into them.

Saw that show. Was very impressed.

7 posted on 10/25/2006 8:04:52 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: BILL_C

Bookmark for later


8 posted on 10/25/2006 8:05:04 AM PDT by TX Bluebonnet
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To: AppyPappy

Nope, it was Jimmy Hoffa.


9 posted on 10/25/2006 8:07:15 AM PDT by July 4th (A vacant lot cancelled out my vote for Bush.)
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To: BILL_C

After all these years, no one has been able to disprove the Warren Report.

Cyril Wecht was the sole dissenter among the House Assasination Committee's medical experts in 1979. He is a well qualified forensic pathologist, but has a vested interest and a set prejudice in this case.


10 posted on 10/25/2006 8:07:28 AM PDT by mak5
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To: BILL_C

Sorry. Don't care. For all of the data, this scenario doesn't draw any conclusions regarding a 40+ year old event. It basically just presents yet another theory.

When someone comes out and says they have proof that the (Mafia, Soviets, Cubans, etc) killed JFK, I'll take notice.


11 posted on 10/25/2006 8:07:37 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: shield

It's been said if JFK's grave was dug up you'd find nothing in the coffin. It's been said his body was put in a lead coffin and dropped in the Atlantic Ocean. The wounds left in his bones would prove the warren commission was nothing more than one big coverup.

I've never heard that one but what I've tried to stick to is facts. Since I'm quite positive this scenario is OBVIOUSLY what happened, then it's irrelevant where Kennedy's body is.

IF Connally was shot at Zapruder frame number 325 in the back, it proves conspiracy in that there was three shooters.


12 posted on 10/25/2006 8:08:13 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: AppyPappy
Elvis did it

He did? Just wait until my elderly mother hears this...........

13 posted on 10/25/2006 8:10:41 AM PDT by Lando Lincoln (For what cause would a liberal go to war? Revolutions don't count.)
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To: redgolum

Saw that show (Beyond the Magic Bullet). Was very impressed.

The show on the surface is convincing but it is WRONG. The first reason and the simplest to understand is that the last bullet fired on the show is the one that passed through JFK and then hit two of Connally's ribs. The show argues that since the bullet hit two ribs instead of one, that it lost too much kinetic energy to penetrate Connally's left leg.

The major hole in that whole scenario is that there was a bullet FRAGMENT in Connally's left leg, not a bullet hole. Time after time on today's documentaries the researchers describe a bullet penetrating his left leg.

That's NOT what happened. IT was a bullet fragement. And the show said it didn't have enough energy left to fragment after it left Connally's wrist.

Superficially impressive, I read many of the comments on the web about the show, but what they supposedly duplicated did not happen.


14 posted on 10/25/2006 8:15:23 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: BILL_C

Z=220 We first see President Kennedy emerge from behind the sign, clutching his throat and obviously wounded

Z=223 Governor Connally reacts to his first wound

Z=220 to Z=324 Governor Connally turns, pulls his revolver with his left hand, shoots toward source of gunshot, hits Kennedy in the head, blowing his brains out

Z=313 We see the fatal shot to President Kennedy

Z=325 Governor Connally is hit in the back and driven forward by gunmean's second shot


15 posted on 10/25/2006 8:17:04 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: shield

Instead of relying on "what's been said", why not take a shovel to Arlington and check it out? Let us know.


16 posted on 10/25/2006 8:17:55 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: BILL_C
Last year I met with one of the best known critics of the Warren Commission. I showed Dr. Cyril Wecht...

That's where I stopped reading. As a Pittsburgher, I have been suffering with this self-promoting slimy political hack for over 30 years and if Cyril Wecht told me the sun was shining, I'd carry an umbrella. He has made a fortune as an "expert witness" for hire and will testify for the highest bidder. He is a total ego-maniac and will do or say anything for publicity.

BTW, the old fraud is under Federal indictment as we speak for misuse of public property and forcing county employees under his charge to preform services in his private labs. This is the second time he's been caught doing this stuff including once removing pituitary glands from cadavers and selling them without approval of next of kin.

Thankfully, the County did away with an elected corner office last year so this creep is off the public payroll for ever. Even the Democrat political hacks around here can't stand him.

17 posted on 10/25/2006 8:18:45 AM PDT by Ditto
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To: BILL_C
Lee Harvey Oswald was a radical left wing nutcase who thought up the whole assassination alone and unaided and murdered President Kennedy at a moment of opportunity.

None of your invented statistical baloney will ever refute that.

18 posted on 10/25/2006 8:18:57 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: litehaus

"we, the public, will shame them into the truth."

Would, Sir, that THEY were Capable of shame......Lost Cause I fear.

A government that has gone to this degree of deception is not going to come out and say, Yes, you were right, there was a conspiracy.

This story doesn't really make sense until you know beyond any doubt who organized the shooting and then covered it up. There's enough proof to say who it was. The facts along with some other research recently done tells you exactly who the guilty men are.


19 posted on 10/25/2006 8:19:57 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: BILL_C

That statement to me was amusing....thought I'd add it to this thread. You know one day in the future probably long after we've passed on...there will be those that will find it a duty to dig him up and look at those wounds, proving 3 shooters. If his body isn't there...it'll not be possible, however, it will further prove Lee Harvey wasn't the shooter.


20 posted on 10/25/2006 8:20:31 AM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: AppyPappy

Seinfeld: That's one magic loogey.


21 posted on 10/25/2006 8:20:43 AM PDT by Mr. Brightside
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To: BILL_C

That was one magic loogie!!!


22 posted on 10/25/2006 8:21:17 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: linda_22003

Right...you think the guards would allow that?


23 posted on 10/25/2006 8:23:44 AM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: The KG9 Kid

None of your invented statistical baloney will ever refute that.

I didn't invent anything. All I am bringing out is that several witnesses said that the last two shots were bang-bang, almost on top of each other.

Roy Kellerman in his Warren Commission testimony argued with Arlen Specter for what is page, after page, after page of page of saying the same thing: There were multiple shooters.

No statistics, just facts. Lee Harvey Oswald, if he even fired a shot, didn't do it alone.


24 posted on 10/25/2006 8:23:47 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: mak5
My biggest problem with the whole thing, and I watched it at great length when it happened, is with that rifle.

I've had many Carcano rifles. None of them, not one, could be made to perform the way Oswald's did.

IT JUST AIN'T HAPPENING!

Pristine bullet my arse.
25 posted on 10/25/2006 8:24:13 AM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: shield

Go after dark. No one will notice you that way.


26 posted on 10/25/2006 8:24:28 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: BILL_C

If they were REALLY on top of this they would know that back in the late 1960's ENQUIRER magazine "proved" that Kennedy was not really killed but only wounded so bad he was mentally unfit to serve out his term.
Long distance photos showed a man looking like JFK in a wheelchair and his head bandaged on the Onassis Islands.

But then there are those peskey morgue photos...


27 posted on 10/25/2006 8:24:53 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar ((Democrats have never found a fight they couldn't run from...Ann Coulter))
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To: shield

Now let's hear your 9/11 theories. :)


28 posted on 10/25/2006 8:25:15 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: The KG9 Kid

I watched them arrest Oswald. He may have been involved, but he wasn't capable enough.

That's why Ruby got to him first.

Now, Ruby knew he was terminal when he did the contract on Oswald. Go figure.


29 posted on 10/25/2006 8:27:04 AM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Kennedy is deader than a doornail. Morgue photo's don't lie. There was no such thing as Photoshop in '63.


30 posted on 10/25/2006 8:28:27 AM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: BILL_C
Oswald was the lone shooter. He was a competent marksman, owned a perfectly capable surplus rifle, and the shot was relatively simple for his skill. There is only evidence of three shots, all of them fired by Oswald.

That's all there is to it, really. Forty five more years of conspiracy theories and misinterpreted dissected data will never prove otherwise.

31 posted on 10/25/2006 8:29:14 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: AppyPappy

Sorry. Don't care. For all of the data, this scenario doesn't draw any conclusions regarding a 40+ year old event. It basically just presents yet another theory.

When someone comes out and says they have proof that the (Mafia, Soviets, Cubans, etc) killed JFK, I'll take notice.

REPLY:

Well, when it's OBVIOUS there were multiple shooters, and it is, then that implicates a goverment who has led a coverup for years.

There's only one reason for this elaborate lie to exist and that's to protect the Guilty Men.

IF it's true that there were multiple shooters and we have an elaborate lie in place to protect those who organized the killing, don't you think we need to know the details?


32 posted on 10/25/2006 8:29:22 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: The KG9 Kid
Lee Harvey Oswald was a radical left wing nutcase who thought up the whole assassination alone and unaided and murdered President Kennedy at a moment of opportunity.

Thank You. Unfortunately, there's no mystery and intrigue in that position, and you won't sell very many books with it.
33 posted on 10/25/2006 8:29:30 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God." (Psalm 53:1))
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To: The KG9 Kid

"perfectly capable surplus rifle"

Do you know what you are talking about? I think not.

6.5 Carcano was junk. Sold surplus from Sears at $15. The bullet itself was weak and inaccurate.

No Way It Happened With Rifle.


34 posted on 10/25/2006 8:31:33 AM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: BILL_C

Unless you plan to name the players, it's all just a fun exercise.


35 posted on 10/25/2006 8:31:35 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: The KG9 Kid; Al Gator

***Oswald was the lone shooter.***

Many years ago I read an article, I think it was in Popular Mechanics (or another such magazine) in which it was shown that a piece of thread was found caught on the butt plate of the Carcano rifle that matched Oswald's shirt.


36 posted on 10/25/2006 8:33:27 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar ((Democrats have never found a fight they couldn't run from...Ann Coulter))
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To: The KG9 Kid

Oswald was the lone shooter. He was a competent marksman, owned a perfectly capable surplus rifle, and the shot was relatively simple for his skill. There is only evidence of three shots, all of them fired by Oswald.

That's all there is to it, really. Forty five more years of conspiracy theories and misinterpreted dissected data will never prove otherwise.

Reply:

I know you didn't read this but you could at least look at the pictures :-)

BUT seriously, this scenario has never seriously been considered before.

When I showed Dr. Wecht the Connally head snap downward, he asked his son Ben if he knew about a shot fired after the fatal head shot to JFK.

I know they had been exposed to the Dallas Police recording paper "Echo Correlation" by Dr. D. B. Thomas as he spoke at Dr. Wecht's symposium in 2003.


37 posted on 10/25/2006 8:33:55 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: Cagey; MotleyGirl70

There was a second spitter.

KEITH: YOU said, "Nice game, pretty boy."
KRAMER: Ah, you remember.
NEWMAN: And then you spit on us.
KEITH: Hey, I didn't spit at you.
NEWMAN: Oh, yeah, right.
KRAMER: No no no, well, then who was it?
KEITH: Well lookit, the way I remember it [back to the grainy 8mm film parody] I was walking up the ramp. I was upset about the game. That's when you called me prettyboy. It ticked me off. I started to turn around to say something and as I turned around I saw Roger McDowell behind the bushes over by that gravely road. …Anyway he was talking to someone and they were talking to you. I tried to scream out but it was too late. It was already on its way.


38 posted on 10/25/2006 8:35:48 AM PDT by Rb ver. 2.0
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To: BILL_C

So do they mention Castro in these shows?


39 posted on 10/25/2006 8:35:51 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Al Gator
"... I've had many Carcano rifles. None of them, not one, could be made to perform the way Oswald's did."

Untrue. All models of the Mannlicher-Carcano are fine rifles. They have superior triggers. The 6.5mm Carcano cartridge is a modern, accurate round thoroughly capable of hunting African big game including elephants.

These rifles were popular African safari rifles amongst Italian big game hunters in the first half of the last century. Military models of the Mannlicher-Carcano slaughtered tens of thousands of Ethiopians in the years before WWII.

40 posted on 10/25/2006 8:36:12 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

That's true. I don't think anyone disputes that Oswald was part of the scheme. He was on post, rifle in hand.

However, the rifle could not possibly perform up to what it has been accused of. NO WAY. Its been tried. Every time they tried, the Carcano failed miserably.

Most likely there were other shooters to take up the slack. We may never know. But I'm still puzzled by the pristine bullet, and the fact that big chunk was blown off the BACK of Kennedy's head.


41 posted on 10/25/2006 8:37:09 AM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: The KG9 Kid

What world are you living in? The military surplus carcanos are junk! No one disputes that.


42 posted on 10/25/2006 8:38:08 AM PDT by Al Gator (Refusing to "stoop to your enemy's level", gets you cut off at the knees.)
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To: Shooter 2.5

They're back, badmouthing my comfortable old Carcano again.


43 posted on 10/25/2006 8:38:31 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: BILL_C
How does this fit in with the sequence of shots and number of shooters given in the James Files confession?
44 posted on 10/25/2006 8:39:24 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: BILL_C

Well you folks can say I wear a tin hat, but this is the way I have always felt:

I think it was Cuban/mafia/Connelly/Johnson.

The Cubans because of the Cuban Missile Crisis; The Mafia because of what Bobby Kennedy was doing with the investigations into the Mafia;Connelly, he was in the playpen with Johnson, and Johnson because the Kennedys never let him in on to much of what was going on...his only way to be Pres was get JFK removed...

Wouldn't surprise me if Connelly knew people to 'out' the President...and Jack Ruby to silence Oswald...

Jack Ruby as it was stated later, had cancer and he knew he was going to die anyway...

Thats how I view the Kennedy murder, be it right or wrong....


45 posted on 10/25/2006 8:40:39 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 (My ? to libs: "Do they ever shut up on your planet?" "Grow your own DOPE: Plant a LIB!")
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To: AppyPappy

Unless you plan to name the players, it's all just a fun exercise.

Actually, that's already been done.

In November, 2003, the History Channel put on a show Called the "GUILTY MEN" based on a book by Barr McClellan. The only piece of real physical evidence that was in his book was a fingerprint found on a box in the shooters nest that was in the FBI files until I believe 1997.

The fingerprint was linked to a convicted killer named Mac Wallace.

The show was shown 4 times, twice one day, two times another. AND then the History Channel removed the show and with the help of three historians they said it would never be shown again. AND you can't buy it and I understand the rights were bought by an unnamed group.

Barr McClellan is the father of Scott McClellan who just resigned as press secretary to President Bush. He started working in a law firm in 1996 that catered to President Johnson.


46 posted on 10/25/2006 8:40:42 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: BILL_C; 4CJ
ROTFLM*O, 4CJ!!! When was it, Monday, we were talking about that snotnosed reporter correcting Mrs. Connelly that there were three shots, not four?

Aristocrats find interruptions unhumorous, esp. those telling them they are lying or mistaken :>.

47 posted on 10/25/2006 8:41:37 AM PDT by 100-Fold_Return (They Took My Saddle in Houston, Broke My Leg in Santa Fe, Lost Wife + Girlfriend)
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To: BILL_C

I'm not sure that if there were multiple shooters then the government is necessarily involved in a cover up. Most of the defenders of orthodoxy could simply be very wrong. The conspiracy could, in theory, be quite small with the number of dupes being quite large. After a hearing, being a dupe takes on a life of its own. Specter has a vested interesting in continuing to be "right"....he will look like a fool and lose his Senate seat if he makes a correction. That doesn't mean that he is involved in a conspiracy to protect the killers. He is merely acting out of self-preservation, a conspiracy of one, as it were.

Does that make sense?

Impressive post, all the same. Would like to hear more about the intrigue side of the whole thing.


48 posted on 10/25/2006 8:44:11 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: 100-Fold_Return

Actaully, there were five shots, three from the TSBD and two from in front of the limo.

I have Nellie Connally's book that she wrote based on her notes she made after the assassination.

I don't remember her discussing four shots. I'd love to see the reference.


49 posted on 10/25/2006 8:45:35 AM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of History are bound to repeat them.)
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To: mak5
After all these years, no one has been able to disprove the Warren Report.

One of our NC Senators participated in the 1978 House Subcommittee on Assassinations investigation. He told me, "It looks to me like Castro got to Kennedy before Kennedy got to Castro." If that is the case, we won't hear the truth until after Castro dies.

50 posted on 10/25/2006 8:48:00 AM PDT by JoeGar
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