Posted on 11/11/2006 3:45:37 PM PST by BrerRabbit
Beltway Boys (6:00-6:30 ET). Fred Barnes and Mort Kondracke just stated that immigration "restrictionism" was a losing position for Republicans. Barnes proudly trumpeted that the Weekly Standard that he writes for is pro-amnesty and guest worker. Thanks Fweddy.
By the way, I saw this immediately after changing away from Lou Dobbs This Week (6:00-7:00 ET) on CNN which had a report tonight pointing out that Tom Tancredo and a few others who are strong on the immigration issue did not lose in the election, an indication that being strong on immigration and security is not a losing position.
Take that, liberal Fox news.
I like Fred and middle ground must be found on the issue. Just my opinion. The Border Must be sealed FIRST then the people that are here can work out some kind of FINE to get in line for citizenship.
We voted an anti amnesty GOP conservative into office in my district.
Interesting comments from Lou Dobbs.
Vince in Pennsylvania: "I hope since the Dems were voted in they don't think the American people want immigration reform, or they will be out as fast as they got in. Our laws are fine, just enforce them."
REP. JOHN SHADEGG (R), ARIZONA: We broke faith with the American people, and they sent us a clear message. Now, I don't know if my colleagues have understood that message yet. I think they are really kind of in shock, still, but they sent a clear message: You promised to change the way Washington works and you didn't do it, and so it's time to give the other team a turn.
We had said we would be different, we would clean up Washington and it would operate openly and above board, and no secret deals, and no smoke room deals, smoke-filled room deals, and no back- room deals that are cut, and no late-night deals. And the American people have now read that, in point of fact, none of that happened.
Dobbs: And Congress voted to build a fence along part of our border with Mexico. The president signed the bill. Now powerful Democrats threatening to open our borders to anyone who wants to enter the country? Is that right?
Well, we're going to find out just what the difference is between a Democrat and a Republican here in the next few months.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0611/10/ldt.01.html
A. How could any true conservative like Barnes? This is a guy who writes a book essentially bragging about Bush being a "rebel" because he's a big spending, big government "conservative."
B. People who don't respect our laws must be deported, and NOT allowed to return. Sorry, but a fine is just an implicit bribe.
Deporting what is it 10-15 million people is unrealistic.
Fred Barnes is a great example of why the election we just had happened.
Fred is deeply concerned about losing his gardener and maid.
Both Fred and Mort acted as if anyone who wants the immigration laws enforced is a bigot, or "intolerant". They also made it sound as if the country voted "pro-illegals" this week, while I had heard other pundits state that many state proposals passed that were anti-illegal immigration.
These two are right up there with the President and the dems in Congress in trying to get the amnesty program enacted. Fred is apparently supporting John McCain for President, while Mort thinks Obama is the greatest (yet offered no rationale except that the media loves Obama). Neither seem to make any sense at this point, and I think my days of watching the "Beltway Boys" are over.
Time to compromise on it. If the Tancredo group had any sense they would do it in the lame duck session. What the Dems will pass is going to be a lot worse in some Hardliners eyes than what would happen if the GOP worked with Bush on it
No conservative watches CNN and Lou Dobbs is no conservative.
DO NOT, Do what Reagan did, learn from his mistakes... This time get the security FIRST and the "Amnesty" or "fine"/"get in line" worked out later... Both can not be done at the same time, we have tried that before and it has failed.
Its a different climate than in 86 I think
Any way compromising now means for instance illegals has becomes citizens in 12 to 15 years versus 5 years prob under a Dem plan
Compromising now menas the best of the Senate bill and the best of the House bill and real border security vs the Dems passing a pure Senate like bill in the house
Etc Etc- All the time we are losing Hispanic vote. The percentage loss in Hispanic vote we lost this time was bad. If it gets worse or becomes long term trend we become a minority party for decades. That will affect much more than just immigration policy.
I agree, with irritating to many Latinos but, still believe the security needs to come first with a "promise" of earned citizenship later.
If your ship is taking on water at an alarming rate through holes below the water line, and if your bilge pumps are broken (or your captain is unwilling to use them), your first task—if you care for your ship and don't want it to sink—is to plug the holes so water stops rushing in. After the holes are plugged, the water that's already in the ship can either be bailed out slowly or desalinated and added to your ship's stores.
It's unfortunate that something so obvious is so often ignored by politicians and political commentators.
People who don't respect our laws must be deported, and NOT allowed to return. Sorry, but a fine is just an implicit bribe.
&&
Exactly.
Besides, they have no respect for any of our laws to begin with. How many of those already here would even show up to register anyway?
Just look at the exit polls. You round them up and ship them back crowd lost.
He's wrong, but it's not an animating position. You can't run on restricting illegals, but you have to be against it if you're going to run in a Republican district, especially in the southwest.
But if you think the illegal position will get you elected over anything else, think again.
Do tell.
Lets see, Hayworth lost and Jeff Flake did not even have a Dem run agisnt him?
Mexico also requires ID to vote... lol
I think Fred Barnes has an evil twin.
I second that.
If you think 'middle ground' needs to be found you better spend some time in southern California to see what happens. This is ground zero for the Reagan amnesty of 1986.
In 10 years time north Orange County went from Bob Dornan to Loretta Sanchez. From Reagan Republican to Clinton Democrat. Is that the sort of middle ground you can live with?
Middle ground with(Border Security First) That means NO MORE coming in, then address "earned citizenship"/"Fines" or whatever.
The usual advice from the squishy middle. It might work on those who haven't lived with the effects of your "just give up" policy.
Eisenhower didn't have a problem going it.
Of course, he was a patriot and wasn't afraid of offending Mexico, something lacking in the current White House.
Really? Just what do you think an American citizenship should be sold for? A thousand? Two thousand? Gee, the blood of our forefathers is going pretty cheap these days.
Think we ought to set up booths outside prisons and tell violent criminals if they break the law all they have to do is pay a fine and we'll let them out?
Try doing anything like that in 2006 and they will be playing WWII videos of Nazi's moving Jews in trains.
Do you see a little difference between violent criminal and a poor farm hand or house keeper?
People who get to stay get to bring in their family members from 'back home'. It's called Family Reunification and it's part of our law.
The 3 million you thought you were getting in '86 became triple that, or more. A government that wasn't willing to enforce immigration law in the first instance wasn't, and won't be, interested in enforcing the new law. The current 10-15 million will be triple that.
With a second amnesty in the books, the whistle will blow to get here fast to be in line for the next amnesty. The latest 'instant Americans' act as a staging ground for many more illegals- friends, distant relatives, people from 'home' who pay them for the privilege.
This is what happened. It heavily impacted California. It won't be California this time, it will be the rest of the country and the numbers will be much bigger.
JD hasn't lost yet, they are still counting votes. There were 250,000 mail in ballots just in Maricopa county and another 100,000 votes from the rest of the state. They can only count them 25,000 a day because our law requires that every vote is verified (address, signature etc.)
You're not kidding.
And if Republicans are so afraid of being called names that they won't enforce the law, then they deserve to be relegated to the dustbin of history.
And if the Border isn't sealed, you can expect 10x that plus the unknown "heavy package" that we are all worried about.
ROTFLMCO! I live in Arizona where the violent crime has increased by an incrediable amount. I stood barefoot in my OWN kitchen with a gun pointed at the door as an illegal attempted to break in. Hospital emergency rooms are now almost exclusively used by illegals as a form of free national health insurance paid by me and my neighbors. Most auto accidents involve illegals who have NO insurance, therefore my insurance has tripled, my property tax has doubled and 80% of it goes to finance schools who are swamped with kids who can't speak english. Our school systems, formerly one of the better ones is no 50th in the nation.
Unless you're trying to tell me that those poor farm workers (there ARE no farms here in Phoenix BTW) are working two jobs with their second one being breaking into houses, than your post is utter nonesense.
BTW, Arizona just passed overwhelmingly 4 ballot proposition restricting illegal access to the public trough (one restricts lawsuits which have gone through the roof by those "poor farmers and housekeepers".)
What is going on with Fred Barnes? First, small government as an issue is passe, NOW this.
Like I said, Close the Border, "Fine" and "Figire out a way" to get these people ID's and into the system. It's going to happen, the question remains WILL OUR BORDER STILL BE A SIEVE?
That is what WE need to get done on OUR side.
We need to close the borders and the only workers permits that can be issued must be issued to people in Mexico, not those already here. Those who broke the law should NOT be rewarded for breaking the law. Guess what happens if you give your dog a cookie when he pees on the carpet?
You need to remember we DO NOT control either house. remember we lost.
The kind of people who break laws vote for democrats, those who obey the law vote republican. Why on earth would you legalize 20 million law breakers?
Let them go home and apply for a permit and come here legally. DO NOT sell citizenship and call it a fine.
What is it with these high powered, presumably rich string of Republicans who have no problem with giving amnesty to millions of illegals??
Methinks they feel guilty about their upper echelon lot in life, and this is the way they can asuage their guilt.
Kind of like rich Democrats who are so adamantly in favor of the government giving out big entitlements.
It makes them feel less smarmy for having all that money.
Just let some of these "gated" people come down to earth and live in regular neighborhoods and do regular jobs for a while.
They will see the affect surging illegal immigration is having on wages and living standards.
OK FINE, CLOSE the border, Then we "Promise to Debate" The status of the Illegals already here... ;)
Dry up the jobs offered by evil employers who wish to exploit poor people, and the mass exodus from Mexico to this country will dry up as well. Then we can control the border and protect ourselves.
I'm NOT Rich, LOL Not by anyones standards! LOL.
I think that if you don't live in the middle of this, you cannot understand this issue.
I saw today a cake mix and a coupon booklet that were bilingual. Holy heck, can't people look at the pictures of the products and figure out what they are? I lived in Europe (not the UK) for 10 years and I managed. Are Mexicans stupid? I think not. Let them learn the tiny bit of English that comes from seeing a picture of a pack of batteries and the word "batteries" on the coupon; why do they need "baterias" written on the ad??
There are places with water and sewer problems because 40 men have purchased a 2 bedroom home together and are destroying the neighborhood system. One man said that he had a terrible fly problem because he lived next to one such "clown house" (John Kobylt of John and Ken coined that expression). The men couldn't wait in line for the one bathroom so they used the yard.
We can't get our English-speaking children educated in our public schools. We can't get anyone seen in any timely fashion in the ER so we just suffer at home without medical care unless the condition is truly deadly. Jails are overcrowded with illegals so many people who should be behind bars are out.
Life for anyone in SoCal who is not seriously wealthy is impacted horribly.
These people far off in DC who want amnesty are insane. Amnesty means "Everyone, keep coming illegally. Eventually, you will be legal." We are NOT gaining anything from this labor. Sorry. Only the employers do: they needn't pay taxes or workman's comp or even fair wages. We pay all the social services for them instead.
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