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From Jungle Book to Apocalypto
Vanity ^ | 12/10/06 | kh

Posted on 12/10/2006 9:41:43 AM PST by kinghorse

First off let me state I haven't yet seen Apocalypto, but knowing what I know of Mr. Gibson's sensibilities, I expect it to be a rather rude departure from political correctness regarding non-western culture. And, being a cultured western male, I applaud this. The insinuations are prime to survival and subject for honest debate in the current situation in the ME and more specifically Iraq and Lebanon. I thought about all of this while listening to Cookie and Zachie and the inestimable Mr. George Will debate the ways and means of surrender in Iraq on This Week with George Stephanopoulos. This was after enduring the grinning moron that is Joe Biden rub his hands with glee while a ranking Republican laid out all the reasons why we need to abandon the Green Zone in Iraq.

Why bring up Apocalypto? It shows the cruelty that exists in the heart of man, the animal, not the divine creature. Western thought gave meaning and reason to divinity as a justification for imposing change. When the Europeans first met indigenous people at Plymouth, there was an exchange of food as a celebration and giving of thanks. Ultimately, the indigenous culture's inability to accept reason and logic as the guiding principle in their lives was their undoing. What we are witnessing in Iraq is but another example of a culture's inability to accept logic and reason as a guiding principle in their lives.

George Will, God Bless This Man's Soul, laid it out so clearly when he explained the abject stupidity of the premise behind the Baker Report. And this is what he said. The Baker Report states that a solution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict will solve the problems of Iraq and the rest of the Middle East. Then Mr. Will illustrated this stupidity. He gave the example of a Shiite or Sunni hit squad going out on their morning run to kill their neighbors when they hear over the radio that peace has been achieved in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The squad leader then announces they stop the hit and all go home and become good proper citizens. I almost fell out of my chair! But he wasn't finished. Next Mr. Will rightfully asked what makes anyone think Iran or Syria want to help stabilize Iraq when Baker's main tenet assumes a new cooperation.

When irrational people are presented with the agent of change, predictable results will follow. The rational process we will follow by adhering to our democratic principles of open debate, consensus building and compromise will inevitably alter the policy to more properly respond to conditions in the region. If we fall back or stay, the calculus doesn't change much. It's going to be violent and chaotic. President Bush should be commended for keeping the faith with western rational thought and being an agent for change where change is needed. In the end, rationality must prevail over irrationality. Our kids even get it better than some of these so called leaders. My son came home last night after viewing the film Munich and needed to be calmed down about things. I tell you, there's a resurgence and pride among our youth regarding our culture's rationality and civility that shouldn't be discounted. Mel's Gibson's Apocalypto is the latest example of this belief and the need to defend and promote, for lack of a better word, a divine way. Or maybe it is just that I hope for this. But I see it rising and I see good things for America. And yes it's a big tent and everyone is part of this. Race or nationality doesn't preclude being a part of this resurgence of pride in who we are and what we represent. Sadly, I can't see much of it in the generation of people leading us today (President Bush excluded).


TOPICS: TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: apocalypto; hopereasoncourage; melgibson

1 posted on 12/10/2006 9:41:45 AM PST by kinghorse
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To: kinghorse

When I said my son had to be calmed down I did it by explaining in America we are guided by principles that allow everyone to share in the glory of our nation. It doesn't matter how you worship (as long as you aren't advocating violence), who you are, what you look like, you are welcome to live you life and raise your children freely. The people here overwhelmingly are here because they want to share in our blessed freedom.


2 posted on 12/10/2006 9:45:59 AM PST by kinghorse (calls them like I sees them)
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To: kinghorse

I've seen Apocalypto. Think of it as "Quest for Fire" set in the Yucatan.

Just a story about a family man trying to do his best for his own in the only world he knows. ;-)

It's a good flick.


3 posted on 12/10/2006 9:48:09 AM PST by glorgau
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To: kinghorse

The theme of Apocalypto is a good one. Fear is a disabling disease. You can cure it only by fighting back with everything you have.


4 posted on 12/10/2006 9:56:36 AM PST by Rapscallion (In war, be less civilized.)
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To: kinghorse

My big problem is the choice of the title for the thing, Apocalypto; sounds like a Latin-American dance.


5 posted on 12/10/2006 9:57:42 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: kinghorse
I tell you, there's a resurgence and pride among our youth regarding our culture's rationality and civility that shouldn't be discounted. Mel's Gibson's Apocalypto is the latest example of this belief and the need to defend and promote, for lack of a better word, a divine way.

Praise God, may it be so! Amen!

Beautiful essay. I, too, have to have hope. My kid is a 20 something grad student in international studies. I spoke about some of my own discouragement with the old hippie agenda recently, and my kid said, "Have faith in the next generation. Maybe enough of us don't want to live like that any more."

6 posted on 12/10/2006 9:57:43 AM PST by Albion Wilde (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. -2 Cor 3:17)
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To: Albion Wilde

How can we have faith in the next generation when we still haven't found all of the cracker crumbs, stuffed animals and prohibited magazines they left behind in their rooms when they went off to save the world.


7 posted on 12/10/2006 9:59:59 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: kinghorse

Are we talking about the Nannystates of America? You have the blessed freedom to go to a government office and get a permit to do what you want, after paying appropriate fees. Soon, smokers will need to get a permit to smoke in their own houses.

And people overwhelmingly are coming here, not for freedom, but welfare, free housing, and other freebies if you are lucky - paid for by you. If you are unlucky, they are muslim immigrants, brought in by Senator Brownback, and waiting for the signal to attack the Great Satan and the infidels - (aka YOU).


8 posted on 12/10/2006 10:04:02 AM PST by Howard Jarvis Admirer (Howard Jarvis, the foe of the tax collector and friend of the California homeowner)
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To: kinghorse
The user reviews at Yahoo give it glowing reviews.
9 posted on 12/10/2006 10:13:20 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Rapscallion

someone should get this message to the defeatocrats! Reagan handed us freedom from fear- Jimmy Carter and Clinton killed it and handed us fear again. http://sacredscoop.com


10 posted on 12/10/2006 10:17:43 AM PST by CottShop
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To: glorgau

***I've seen Apocalypto. Think of it as "Quest for Fire" set in the Yucatan.***

I haven't seen it, but I saw this recut trailer for it, and thought it was hilarious. There's a fifteen second ad for target first.

http://video.nbc.com/player.html?dlid=49748


11 posted on 12/10/2006 10:28:12 AM PST by sockmonkey (Die, Possums, Die)
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To: Old Professer
How can we have faith in the next generation when we still haven't found all of the cracker crumbs, stuffed animals and prohibited magazines they left behind in their rooms when they went off to save the world.

I am heartened by my offspring's often-repeated byword since around 10th grade, "Generally speaking, people are stupid." It took me until my late thirties to accept this realization. So I'm not seeing any illusions about saving the world; only having a scope of influence within it. I think this differs from what I saw and heard around me in the 60s.

12 posted on 12/10/2006 10:44:16 AM PST by Albion Wilde (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. -2 Cor 3:17)
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To: Howard Jarvis Admirer

brought in by Senator Brownback,

Could you give me some sources on that?


13 posted on 12/10/2006 10:52:22 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: Irisshlass

For the full discussion, do a keyword search for "sambrownback" - it is a an article entitled, Brownback, A Full Scale Conservative. This is an excerpt of my post.

To: Aussie Dasher
The real question is whether President Brownback will turn your town into a ghetto filled with polygamous Africans on welfare. If you move to Kansas, you will be safe from this fate according to this writer:

Sam Brownback and the Somali Bantu
By Thomas Allen

Coming soon to a town near you: some of a projected influx of 12,000 Somali Bantu. Unless you live in Kansas—thanks to the hidden hypocrisy of its arch-immigration enthusiast Senator, Sam Brownback.

You have to admire the sense of humor of the folk in the refugee industry. Their current bright idea: to resettle part of a polygamous tribe that practices female genital mutilation in Holyoke, Massachusetts--next door to the first women’s college in America.

Even by the standards of the refugee industry – and God knows etc.--the story of the Somali Bantu is wild. They are not ethnic Somalis, the group who have just notoriously discovered Lewiston, Maine, doubling its welfare budget in two years. (At 3 percent of the Lewiston’s population, Somalis now receive 46 percent of its welfare payments). Instead, the Somali Bantu are the descendants of slaves brought to Somalia from further south as much as two hundred years ago. They remain distinct and are allegedly despised by their former masters--themselves, it should be noted, black Africans.

Under a 1997 agreement with the United Nations, which operates Somali Bantu refugee camps in Kenya, the Somali Bantu were to resettle in Mozambique, their ancestral homeland. But Mozambique backed out at the eleventh hour, citing a change in government and a lack of resources.

So the Somali Bantu are coming here.

Of course, for a fraction of the money the U.S. will spend to move this tribe to America, Mozambique could have been persuaded to carry through on its promises. But the U.S. refugee industry needs clients! So that option was never considered.

The cost to the taxpayer of resettling this tribe in the U.S. could run into the billions.

- In case you haven't kept up with the news, Taleban types have taken Mogadishu, where the Somali capital is located. Burkas and Osama are popular there. Brownback imports them because diversity needs African Osamas in America - but not in Kansas. If you read the full article, it discusses how Brownback dumped the Muslims in Massachusetts, Virginia, and California but not in Kansas. Hypocrisy, anyone?


14 posted on 12/10/2006 11:15:09 AM PST by Howard Jarvis Admirer (Howard Jarvis, the foe of the tax collector and friend of the California homeowner)
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To: Howard Jarvis Admirer

Thank-you.


15 posted on 12/10/2006 11:18:36 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: glorgau
"I've seen Apocalypto. Think of it as "Quest for Fire" set in the Yucatan."

I saw Apocalipto Friday night, and it's an excellent film, as well as an excellent piece of storytelling. It's easily the best among many good films I've seen this year.It reminded me most of Cornell Wilde's The Naked Prey (1966), although at times it seemed to draw from Fellini's Satyricon, and the ending was right out of Lord of the Flies.

16 posted on 12/10/2006 11:49:42 AM PST by PUGACHEV
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To: Albion Wilde

Sounds awfully Menckenian.


17 posted on 12/10/2006 3:58:01 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Old Professer
Sounds awfully Menckenian.

Well, better that than going like a lamb to the slaughter as I did from my sheltered adolescence out into the world during the turbulent 60s. Happy holiday greetings to you!

18 posted on 12/10/2006 5:47:16 PM PST by Albion Wilde (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. -2 Cor 3:17)
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To: Albion Wilde

I lived in Monterey, Ca. during 1966-1970, our son was one when we got there from Burbank and I cut his hair once, we called him our "Little Hippy."


19 posted on 12/10/2006 7:13:33 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Old Professer
I lived in Monterey, Ca. during 1966-1970

Hey, maybe we crossed paths when I visited out there in 1970, sitting around nude in the hot tubs at Esalen with a bunch of complete strangers. Those were the days.

20 posted on 12/10/2006 7:25:49 PM PST by Albion Wilde (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. -2 Cor 3:17)
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To: glorgau
Yes "Quest for fire" and add "Run of the Arrow" and then put in a little Rambo First Blood. Now you got it. Saw it tonight and thought it was a very good movie. Entertaining and if you are interested in the Culture of that day you will enjoy it. No children though.
21 posted on 12/10/2006 7:32:36 PM PST by fish hawk (.)
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To: Old Professer

Apocalypto is the Spanish word for Apocalypse--which in the original Greek means "I reveal" as in St John the Apostle who wrote the Book of Revelation...and all that entails.

Mel has reasons for naming it after the divine book of the Holy Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation


22 posted on 12/10/2006 7:33:31 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: eleni121

What has that got to do with a perfectly good insult?


23 posted on 12/10/2006 7:41:12 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: glorgau
I saw "Apocalypto" this weekend and thought it was a magnificent film. The violence was an integral part of the storyline, and the story focused on the characters, who were trying to survive a raid on their village and being kidnapped and taken to a place of sacrifice.

Everything about this movie worked. I thoroughly enjoyed it. A tremendous achievement. Raves, raves, raves. I applaud Mel for making this film. The characters were distinctive and sympathetic. Great writing.

One gratuitous "f" word in the English translation was my only beef, used in the context that "his goose is cooked". It got a cheap laugh from the audience.

24 posted on 12/10/2006 7:49:15 PM PST by Ciexyz (Satisfied owner of a 2007 Toyota Corolla.)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

ping for your consideration.


25 posted on 12/10/2006 7:52:35 PM PST by Ciexyz (Satisfied owner of a 2007 Toyota Corolla.)
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To: Albion Wilde

"Generally speaking, people are stupid."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am 59 and feel that people are generally smart. See my tag.


26 posted on 12/10/2006 7:52:44 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid)
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To: wintertime
I am 59 and feel that people are generally smart. See my tag.

First, let me say that neither one of us takes the "stupid" thing too seriously. And I do agree in principle with your tagline. I guess it comes down to one's relative ability to control the types of people you must interact with on a daily basis. In some lines of work, it's tougher than in others.

By the way, it's veering off a little, but in President Bush's press conference the day after the Republicans lost the election, the press were, as usual, trying to get Bush to denigrate his performance and apologize for living, and he prefaced his reply with, "In this line of work..." That gave me such a chuckle. Like it was any other line of work...

27 posted on 12/10/2006 8:06:23 PM PST by Albion Wilde (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. -2 Cor 3:17)
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To: Ciexyz

Sounds like a great film.


28 posted on 12/11/2006 3:24:57 AM PST by rightwingintelligentsia
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To: kinghorse

One quibble: what is in the heart of man and produces such cruelty is not his "animal' nature --animals seldom are cruel--but the sin that resides there, easting away at its vitality until it kills us. Sin--which is separation from God--can turn us,as it were. into incarnate demons.


29 posted on 12/11/2006 3:39:36 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHI)
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To: RobbyS

Fair enough. Two words. Saint Mel.


30 posted on 12/11/2006 8:00:12 AM PST by kinghorse (calls them like I sees them)
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To: kinghorse
I was going to see this film until I heard from a Gibson Spokesman that it was a Bush Bashing film in disguise of a semi-historic epic. Gibson compared the main Mayan leader who wanted to bring back the old ways by supporting the Human Sacrifice as a bush like character. After learning of that, I decided not to see the film. I am tired of Hollywood types capitalizing on the unpopularity of GWB to make money on a movie. If I was that interested in the Mayans, I would rather read a book written by a historian than see a movie produced by an antisemitic drunk.
31 posted on 12/11/2006 8:50:21 AM PST by wmileo (Reagan Democrat for life)
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To: wmileo

Why let someone else tell you how to think. See for yourself and decide. It's the polar opposite of chiding Bush. It validates Bush.


32 posted on 12/11/2006 9:22:24 AM PST by kinghorse (calls them like I sees them)
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Oh wait, I got your drift in the last 2 words. Still go see it. It's a beautiful vindication of western morality as unequivocable morality.


33 posted on 12/11/2006 9:23:55 AM PST by kinghorse (calls them like I sees them)
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To: kinghorse

Of course you are right. I just don't want to contribute to the Bush Bashing Craze. It is as if he is the real enemy and not the Islamofacists.

Besides, I think my wife and I want to see the Nativity Story together instead.

Thanks for the advise.


34 posted on 12/11/2006 11:19:23 AM PST by wmileo (Reagan Democrat for life)
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To: kinghorse
The whole concept of stability is a concept of death.

It's part of my problem with the Bambi concept of natural history, where everything is beautiful and cute and benign. It's not the world. The world isn't like that at all.

You're either 'prey, you're an 'enemy', or you're 'ignored'.

Now think about all the islands. Island wildlife was wiped out because people could walk up to them with a stick and hit it on the head because it's much easier to kill something that doesn't see you as an enemy. By the time they realized it, they were extinct.

Ray Mendez, mole rat specialist, quoted from the documenty Fast, Cheap, & Out of Control (1997)

35 posted on 12/11/2006 8:27:26 PM PST by weegee (Remember "Remember the Maine"? Well in the current war "Remember the Baby Milk Factory")
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

I see a lot of influences in "Apocalypto" - Gladiator, the first Conan the Barbarian film, Quest for Fire. I personally wondered if the entire film was Mel's metaphor about the decline of our corrupt, decaying American culture that refuses to honor the life of the unborn, but that's just my underlying impression.


36 posted on 12/11/2006 8:55:33 PM PST by Ciexyz (I highly recommend "Apocalypto" - raves, raves, raves.)
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To: sockmonkey

bookmark


37 posted on 12/13/2006 7:03:54 AM PST by sockmonkey (Die, Possums, Die)
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