More Insults About the 'North American Conspiracy'

Human Events ^ | 1-5-2007 | Jerome Corsi

[1rudeboy]

Admit it, you never actually read the comments on these threads.

[1rudeboy]

. . . they allow for very little discussion about the article posted because those who wish to discuss the topic end up having to defend wanting to discuss the topic.

comment #14: Well Jerome, believing that President Bush is going to abolish the Constitution and destroy our currency, the most respected currency in the world, by merging it with the meaningless Canadian dollar and the basket case peso thereby crushing our economy is, well, kooky. Do you also think he'll accomplish all this by January 2009? This has nothing to do with ad hominem attacks. Hawkins and Medved are just stating the obvious. If you're going to incite this kind of conspiratorial nonsense maybe you should grow thicker skin.

comment #23: Prof. Corsi needs to be reminded that it's not difficult to look-up his previous statements on the topic. In other words, one cannot run about claiming that Pres. Bush has a "secret plan" to dissolve the United States of America without taking the risk of being called a conspiracist. Moreover, one cannot defend himself of the charge by simply stating that the SPP exists. His problem is his contention why it exists.

Both the above comments are substantive criticisms of Prof. Corsi’s newly-found “victim-complex.” You’ll note that both were ignored . . . placing you in the unenviable position of complaining that some are forced to defend themselves personally when they choose to avoid the abstract issue.

[hedgetrimmer]

This is done purposefully

They, like Hawkins and Medved, make personal attacks rather than actually discussing the information pertinent to the topic.

This is, a technique pioneered by communists in America for the sole purpose of limiting or stopping free political discourse, which is so vital to the American system.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "SPP supporters"

I've attempted to correct my wording error (above replies)

This should have said "SPP conspiracy believers;" i.e., those who believe that SPP is real and a threat of some sort to the sovereignty of the US of A.

Mr. Medved thinks that the SPP is not even in the works and those who disagree are described by Mr. Medved by just about every abusive or contemptuous word or phrase known to man.

It's the nasty small-minded trait that many 1960s and 1970s liberals brought with them when they came to the right side and fled their traditional, patriotic Democrat Party which the New Left has converted to the Rat Party.

They perfected this abominable practice mostly against Barry Goldwater and us supporters.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "ever notice how long these threads get...they allow for very little discussion about the article posted because those who wish to discuss the topic end up having to defend wanting to discuss the topic. This is done purposefully."

Exactly!

I am reminded of something David Horowitz said about the left -- and why can it not be true of the many former liberals, who though welcomed on the right side should have left their nasty left habits when they came right. People like Mr. Medved for example.

Mr. Horowitz said that for the left, "The issue is not the issue."

Now I've always taken that to mean that issues are weapons.

Thus we indeed do have to "defend wanting to discuss the topic" but even before that we have to discuss the "issue" of whether we are or are not all those names they call us.

"This is done purposefully." Yes it is.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "Admit it, you never actually read the comments on these threads."

I would argue just one point with Kimberly GG. To wit, the statement that "Instead, we get the fake outrage, just like Medved's."

I heard Mr. Medved's agitation as he exposed his feeeeeeeelings on his radio show. He ain't faking it.

[1rudeboy]

Hilarious that your comment appears directly below mine. Heck, the only people on this thread "limiting" discourse are the ones complaining it is being "limited."

[1rudeboy]

Horowitz also very succinctly described those people who, unable to defend their own positions, simply question the motives of their detractors thinking it is enough.

[1rudeboy]

Mr. Medved thinks that the SPP is not even in the works . . . .

Let's see what Mr. Medved has to say, shall we?

Concerning the feds, the entire horror story about “North American Union” is based upon the “Security and Prosperity Partnership,” an utterly innocuous, open, above-board, well-advertised and widely publicized initiative to promote inter-governmental cooperation . . . .

Who's limiting discourse now, using the techniques that hedgetrimmer correctly identifies, yet incorrectly applies?

[hedgetrimmer]

See what I mean?

[1rudeboy]

How dare people direct attention to what someone actually said, instead of simply discussing what others said he said? It's just another way to limit discourse!

[hedgetrimmer]

the “Security and Prosperity Partnership,” an utterly innocuous, open, above-board, well-advertised and widely publicized initiative to promote inter-governmental cooperation . . . .

What is innocuous about the SPP? It is clearly not harmless to American sovereignty or citizen's rights to a constittuional government. Yet Medved doesn't discuss this possibility, even though it is an overriding concern to the people who have studied the SPP and its purpose.

Is it open? Clearly not, because it is not a 'government' agency, it is not subject to any sunshine laws, record keeping rules or any other disclosure methods our Congress is subject to.

Above board? Why didn't the president carry an open debate with the people before decreeing the creation of this organization? How were the members selected? If they are on the payroll of the government, were the jobs widely advertised so that citizens could apply? If they are on government payroll, how is it that our government is hiring foreigners as federal employees to tell our government employees how to 'harmonize' with them? Treason abounds in this administration.

Promoting inter-governmental cooperation... to what purpose? Federal employees are the employees of the American people, not of foreign governments,or foreign bureaucrats. 'Cooperating' with foreign governments? That makes NO sense for our federal employees, as they must answer to the American people and our directions. This is a rogue, extra-constitutional agency built for the express purpose of giving foreign governments control over American policy and American governmental agencies.

Treason abounds and Mr. Medved supports it!

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "Mr. Medved thinks that the SPP is not even in the works. . . ."

Thank you clarifying Mr. Medved's position, you are right - and I remember that indeed he did acknowledge SPP. I was remiss in not adding "in the works as anything like that which is described by the 'nuts'". But nevertheless..

Truth is far better that my ego. This is refreshing -- and helps zero-in on real issues.

Let's bracket the target some more by asking about the use of the word innocuous.

I read the North American Community proposal. It shunned an EU-type arrangement, it claimed that it was not an attempt to dismantle sovereignty, and it (most important for me) acknowledged the Mexican problems of corruption and trustworthiness.

As I understood it, it would allow free flow among the sovereign countries of Mexico, the U.S., and Canada. The borders would be better enforced by concentrating on North America as an entity, it claimed. Inventive, unprecedented cooperation among the three countries would be required.

Not even Medved denies that agencies in all three governments are talking and planning. It did propose a 2010 date to effect some or all proposals, I believe.

Here is where I fire another round, stepping closer to a target, at least I believe so. I am not aware that Mr. Corsi or anyone generally recognized as a "player" has ever said that the U.S. of A. as a sovereign country will cease to exist. This is one of those issues that is not the "issue;" it is a faux issue and serves only as an excuse to attack, attack, attack.

Fire for effect: I am totally against any "Community" that includes Mexico until that government-created cesspool becomes a real country. That ain't innocuous IMO.

[The_Eaglet]

A member of the Constimatooshunalist Party. I don't know of a party by that name, and I have not seen Corsi indicate membership in it. How do you know that Corsi is "A member of the Constimatooshunalist Party" ?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: reply #72

Yeah, what hedgetrimmer said.

I would not however say, "Treason abounds and Mr. Medved supports it!"

Now on to my thoughts, not directly related to SPP.

These "hot button" issues threads -- appear to be all economics-related issues; specifically "cheap" labor with its "threat" to sovereignty to some degree or other, IMO.

To wit, migrant labor (mislabeled as immigration), labor arbitrage, technology-enabled cross-border business functions.

There's no question that there are direct economic benefits for some and indirect benefits (yards get cut cheap, Wal Mart) for others.

So even without SPP there's "guest workers" and "globalization".

We need lawful immigration and free, fair trade but do we really need a massive "guest workers" program and "globalization" as they appear to be evolving?

[Ramius]

Good grief... is all this heavy breathing really just about a freakin' *road*??

Can somebody explain to me how a road threatens the foundation of this country?

[Kimberly GG]

". . . they allow for very little discussion about the article posted because those who wish to discuss the topic end up having to defend wanting to discuss the topic."

Out of 62 posts, rudeboy, you could find only TWO so-called "substantive" criticisms that were ignored?

I think you just made my point.

And you might want to check again...there are several replies to #14, including one by me, and the other post is yours. I found nothing substantive in it and therefore, no reply.

[hedgetrimmer]

For the SPP agenda to proceed, there needs to be unification of the currencies of the 3 countries. Why? An item on the SPP agenda is to remove exchange rates from the trade between the 3 countries. To do this there needs to be a common currency between the 3 as in EURO, or Canada and Mexico need to 'dollarize'. For Mexico to buy in, they need to have massive illegal immigration (illegal so that their countrymen stay citizens of Mexico), so that they will send money back to bolster the Mexican economy from without and cushion the 'schock' of integration to the Mexican economy. The massive influx of Mexicans to the US is the 'giveaway' by the globalists to get the country to buy into integration with the United States. Anything the SPP does, will increase illegal immigration because

for North American monetary and financial integration to be successful, it would have to involve an elimination of all barriers to labor migration. This is likely to be seen as an economic necessity and a political difficulty.

North American Monetary and Financial Integration: Notes on the US Perspective

There is a reason for unlimited illegal immigration from Mexico, and its not for the good of the American people. We are being told that we must endure the pain of globalization, and that indeed, we are doing in spades.

[eleni121]

Corsi also loves the Longshoremen...remember their strike in Long Beach shutting down the docks of the entire West Coast during the anti-WTO protests?

As far as it looks to me - we have another instance of certain extreme elements getting together to undemine capitalism.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "Can somebody explain to me how a road threatens the foundation of this country?"

I believe it's the purpose of road not the road itself. Of course, that does not threaten the foundation of our Republic. But some see the administering of the commercial purpose of the road as something that will cut back our treasured heritage of representative government.

To wit, it is to connect Mexican seaports to the rest of North America thus bypassing all those pesky American Longshoreman, truck drivers, and such. It transcends borders I believe and will require international cooperation to administer it.

I will be happy to hear from y'all that it ain't so.

Of course, the people who will lose their property should the road be built have personal concerns.