Apple CEO lambasts teacher unions

Austin, Texas, Star-Telegram ^ | 02/16/2007 | April Castro

[gas0linealley]

You've not really answered any of the facts. Again, of all the benefits that supposedly we owe thanks to the Unions for, perhaps we can give a nod to the eight hour work day, and that's about it.

You stated your agenda in your first post to me:

Please cite any proof of your statement so I can shot it down.

Workers in the United States, and around the world, have demonstrated their willingness to risk their lives to improve their working conditions. To say that all they achieved was an eight hour day is disrespectful and displays an ignorance of history.

You can get an education here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_labor_issues_and_events

Regarding your experience, I quoted you on that, will you now disagree with your own statement?

[SoCal Pubbie]

My agenda is and always will be the truth.

I don't deny that workers have risked their lives to improve working conditions. Nonetheless, of the major benefits enjoyed by almost all workers everywhere in America, the only ones that can be demonstrated to have arisen directly from Union pressure are shorter working hours, and perhaps paid holidays. You've supplied no evidence to the contrary. The link you provided backs that up.

My experience includes a lot of contact with Unions and their personnel. My father was a member of the United Auto Workers for 38 years. I've worked with Teamsters, Carpenters, Electricians, Riggers, and Decorators all over the country. I've gotten along great with most of them. I've tipped a few with many of them. I've also had my knee caps threatened just for doing my job.

The care not to argue about Unions per se. I do care, as I've stated, about the truth. And the truth is that no more than a third of this country's work force has ever been Unionized, and today that number has shrunk to little over ten percent. Lots of factors, including the Progressive Movement, church groups, The Great Depression and the New Deal, WWI and WWII, socialist pressures, and that crazy thing called The Free Market have combined to change attitudes about labor and the rules that govern it.

And that's the truth.

[gas0linealley]

You wrote this:

Again, of all the benefits that supposedly we owe thanks to the Unions for, perhaps we can give a nod to the eight hour work day, and that's about it.

And then this:

Nonetheless, of the major benefits enjoyed by almost all workers everywhere in America, the only ones that can be demonstrated to have arisen directly from Union pressure are shorter working hours, and perhaps paid holidays.

Here's another one for you:

The early industrial period in Europe saw a six-day work week with only Sunday off, but some workers had no days off at all. Only the labour and workers rights movements and campaigns by trade unionists in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century saw a five day work week introduced as Saturday became a day of rest and relaxation. This movement began in England. In several languages, the word for weekend is an adaptation of weekend or the term "English week" is used for the five-days work week.

You can find more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekend

[gas0linealley]

Another thing, I'm not going to bother finding the quote, but you wrote that Ford gave his employees double what they had been earning, and reduced their hours from nine to eight. You explained that he did that to retain better workers, and that it had nothing to do with unions.

This link will show you a comparison between union vs. nonunion wages:

http://www.laborresearch.org/charts.php?id=34

Obviously there are differences from trade to trade, but in all cases union workers earn more than nonunion. And in some trades the difference is enormous.

If it were not for the higher bar set by union wages (competition), the entire wage structure would be lower. (As you, yourself, pointed out in the case of Ford.)