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Growing Popularity of 8.6mm Sniper Round
Strategy Page ^ | 10-09-07

Posted on 10/09/2007 4:37:41 AM PDT by Renfield

October 9, 2007: The British Army is replacing most of its 3,000 7.62mm L96A1 sniper rifles with one modified to use the .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum caliber round. The Accuracy International "Super Magnum" rifle is basically a L96A1 "Arctic Warfare" rifle modified to handle the larger, 8.6mm Lapua Magnum round. The new rifle (the L118A1) weighs 15 pounds (without a scope), is fifty inches long and has a 27 inch barrel and a five round magazine.

Snipers in Iraq, and especially Afghanistan, have been calling for a longer range round, but find the 12.7mm (.50 caliber) weapons too heavy. The .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum round has an effective range (about 1,500 meters) about 50 percent greater than the 7.62mm standard NATO round. The 8.6mm round entered use in the early 1990s, and became increasingly popular with police and military snipers. Dutch snipers have used this round in Afghanistan with much success, and have a decade of experience with these larger caliber rifles. British snipers in Afghanistan are also using the new round.

Recognizing the popularity of the 8.6mm round, Barrett, the pioneer in 12.7mm sniper rifles, came out with a 15.5 pound version of its rifle, chambered for the 8.6mm.


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; 338; banglist; rifles; rkba; secondamendment; snipers
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I always wanted a .338, but couldn't really justify getting one (there being no moose or Taliban here in Calvert County)....but I think I might get a rifle in that new .338 Federal caliber, if I can find one in left-hand configuration (Tikka/Sako makes one, but the stock dimensions are terrible)
1 posted on 10/09/2007 4:37:43 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: Renfield

“The .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum round has an effective range (about 1,500 meters) about 50 percent greater than the 7.62mm standard NATO round.”

That’s impressive!


2 posted on 10/09/2007 4:40:04 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: Renfield

One of the most accurate rifles I ever owned was a BAR in .338. I would practice on ground squirrels with it and it was as accurate as my eyes could use the iron sights...about 150 yards on a ground squirrel sticking up out of its hole.


3 posted on 10/09/2007 4:44:45 AM PDT by x1stcav (If you continually have to say you support the troops, you probably don't.)
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To: x1stcav

You must have good eyes.

Time was, when I was a good shot with iron sights. However, a couple of recent misses (easy shots at whitetails at ~50 yards) have brought home the message that my eyes are too old to do it anymore. Bought Leupold scope, no deer is safe now, freezer is full of venison.


4 posted on 10/09/2007 4:57:30 AM PDT by Renfield (How come there aren't any football teams with pink uniforms?)
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To: Joe Brower; Squantos; archy

338 ping


5 posted on 10/09/2007 5:54:34 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Renfield

Threads like this are always more enjoyable with a bit of gun porn. Here’s a place to start:

http://www.securityarms.com/all.html

Has anyone else got some good ones?


6 posted on 10/09/2007 6:04:51 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: Jack Hammer
I own a 8mm Hakem that was taken from an Egyptian soldier in the 6 Day War by an Israeli. The Egyptian didn’t need it anymore.
7 posted on 10/09/2007 6:10:58 AM PDT by Tolkien (There are things more important than Peace. Freedom being one of those.)
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To: Renfield

Buddy of mine has an Armalite AR-30M in .338. I’ve fired it about a dozen times, It’s a kickass round, specially on woodchucks at 1000m, a bit of overkill, but a lot of fun.


8 posted on 10/09/2007 6:12:32 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: Renfield
but find the 12.7mm (.50 caliber) weapons too heavy

Wusses...

.338 RUM baby! If I could just find a rifle chambered in it. Lapua cartridges are as expensive as .50 BMG! Here's a 950 yard shot w/ .338 Edge - RUM is supposed to be a bit better, but talk about splitting hairs. .338Edge

target is a white smudge in roughly the center of the frame.

9 posted on 10/09/2007 7:14:39 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: green iguana
Loved the pull back at the end. Beautiful country and a good shot.
10 posted on 10/09/2007 7:25:15 AM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: caver
That's impressive!

Unfortunately, there's a cost. My understanding is a sniper rifle chambered for the .338 Lapua is only good for about 1500 rounds before requiring a new barrel, whereas a .308 can maintain sniper level accuracy in excess of 5000 rounds.

11 posted on 10/09/2007 7:29:06 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ...
C'mon, folks, where's all the gun pix? $;-)

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

12 posted on 10/09/2007 7:36:13 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: green iguana
Ayuh, was over to Gooch's Hardware picking up a box of .338 Edge just t'other day. Fabulous on moose at 1850 yards, which is even more in meters.

Come on Lizard, get serious. Ya want half the Army up all night handloading so 100 snipers can each have their box of 20? I also hope you ain't talking to one of the SWAT Team members that are infesting the countryside (Like the Maine Mental Hospital Swat Team, or the Girl Guides Swat Team) They see something like this in print, they start ordering it from the back of those magazines they read. We can barely afford all the black SWAT Team fashion accessories as it is.

13 posted on 10/09/2007 7:38:24 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( Teddy K's 'Immigration Reform Act' of 1965. ˇGrácias, Borracho!)
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To: papertyger

The military don’t have to worry about costs. I couldn’t afford it in the first place.


14 posted on 10/09/2007 7:42:38 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: Kenny Bunk

I think my cousin leads the Girls Guides Swat Team. Don’t they operate out of Biddeford? Or were you referring to the inland Team out of Millinocket?

I guess if you have to have a factory load, Lapua is fine... tho’ I don’t think Gooch’s stocks them either.


15 posted on 10/09/2007 7:52:08 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: Joe Brower
C'mon, folks, where's all the gun pix? $;-)


16 posted on 10/09/2007 7:58:00 AM PDT by umgud (Axis of Propaganda; lib academia, lib media, lib entertainment)
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To: Joe Brower

The well dressed Alaskan carries the 338 for most critters as well as a 44 mag on their hip!


17 posted on 10/09/2007 8:03:27 AM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: Renfield

My story takes place back in ‘71. I was just out of the service and was a damned good shot. The years have taken their toll. I can use a hologram still because they’re able to get my vision back to almost 20/15 with contacts.

The future is clear however and I’ll probably be going to a scope within a few years myself.


18 posted on 10/09/2007 8:12:36 AM PDT by x1stcav (If you continually have to say you support the troops, you probably don't.)
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To: x1stcav
about 150 yards on a ground squirrel sticking up out of its hole.

can you spare an eye bro?

19 posted on 10/09/2007 8:12:51 AM PDT by wardaddy (Behind the lines in Vichy Nashville)
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To: Joe Brower

20 posted on 10/09/2007 8:16:09 AM PDT by wardaddy (Behind the lines in Vichy Nashville)
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To: Renfield
For hunters...


21 posted on 10/09/2007 8:22:44 AM PDT by wardaddy (Behind the lines in Vichy Nashville)
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To: Renfield; Squantos
October 9, 2007: The British Army is replacing most of its 3,000 7.62mm L96A1 sniper rifles with one modified to use the .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum caliber round. The Accuracy International "Super Magnum" rifle is basically a L96A1 "Arctic Warfare" rifle modified to handle the larger, 8.6mm Lapua Magnum round.

In the initial buy of the .338 AW the Royal Marines bought 44, and the regular army 73, the Brits being tired of breaking firing pins on .50 M82 Barretts, whether that was a design or materials problem or was related to the primers used in the British RG .50 x 99mm ammunition.

The .338 *Super Magnum* versions of the AW are known as the L115A1 in British service, and the most recent series of telescopic sights to be fitted have been the Schmidt & Bender 3-12x50 PM II, also used by the Dutch, though the Germans use a 3-12x56 SSG telescopic sight made by Zeiss.


22 posted on 10/09/2007 8:55:28 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: caver
The military don’t have to worry about costs. I couldn’t afford it in the first place.

You can get a pretty fair substitute by starting with a surplus Pattern 14 Enfield action. My first .338 LM had a barrel rechambered from a .338 Winchester and cost me less than $100 for the action and another $100 for the barrel.

Stocks were a problem, as I broke three before finally going with a fiberglass synthetic. Recoil is sporty, about twice that of a .30-06 or 8x57mm Mauser, but with a properly designed stock, is reasonable.

I expect to be back in bear country in another year or so, and a .30-06 with the right ammo will suit me fine, until I can poick up or put together another .338. At that point, I'll be less concerned about what ammo's in the rifle.

23 posted on 10/09/2007 9:01:22 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: papertyger
Unfortunately, there's a cost. My understanding is a sniper rifle chambered for the .338 Lapua is only good for about 1500 rounds before requiring a new barrel, whereas a .308 can maintain sniper level accuracy in excess of 5000 rounds.

Which is why the AW design incorporates simple barrel removal and replacement as a design feature. It's not exactly a *quick change* M60 or MG42 machinegun barrel changeout, but it's operator do-able.

24 posted on 10/09/2007 9:03:29 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Travis McGee
338 ping

When it's a .338 involved, I think the discriptive term is a tad more than just a *ping*.

25 posted on 10/09/2007 9:04:31 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Renfield
Hmm...15 pounds is still a fair amount of weight to be humping at altitude but I'm not sure less would be a good idea. Touched off a 7mm Remington magnum that came in at a little over 6 pounds last summer. Solid recoil pad. Ouchies.

My hat's off to anyone who can hit anything in the Afghanistan hills. 1500 meters in the field is a far different experience from 1500 meters at the range. And you still gotta get there first.

26 posted on 10/09/2007 9:06:44 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Renfield
always wanted a .338, but couldn't really justify getting one (there being no moose or Taliban here in Calvert County)...

Better rethink your position. You never know when the Penn State mascot might get loose again.

)....but I think I might get a rifle in that new .338 Federal caliber, if I can find one in left-hand configuration (Tikka/Sako makes one, but the stock dimensions are terrible)

If I were in your southpaw condition [I have been, for extended periods a few times, from injury] I think I'd be thinking about a .338 double rifle....

27 posted on 10/09/2007 9:11:55 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: archy

That’s interesting, but I probably wouldn’t know enough to put one together.

Recoil being twice a .30-06 is pretty stout. I own a Garand and that kicks enough forf me. Neat stuff though!


28 posted on 10/09/2007 9:18:12 AM PDT by caver (Yes, I did crawl out of a hole in the ground.)
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To: archy

I love the posed photo where the sniper isn’t using any rest (except his left elbow).


29 posted on 10/09/2007 9:20:55 AM PDT by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
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To: Travis McGee
I love the posed photo where the sniper isn’t using any rest (except his left elbow).

Not unusual in the rocks. It looks like he's got his elbow on his thigh, so he's probably got bone support all the way.

For a middlin-good shot, it'd probably do. But for a really long one, he needs to be resting it on his Bergen.

30 posted on 10/09/2007 9:35:04 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Joe Brower
C'mon, folks, where's all the gun pix? $;-)

Right here you go!


31 posted on 10/09/2007 9:38:41 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: wardaddy; archy
Now that's more like it!
32 posted on 10/09/2007 9:43:04 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: archy
That bottom pic...the guy is in the wrong camo for the terrain.

At least to what I can see in the rest of the pic...

33 posted on 10/09/2007 9:48:54 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Piss off a liberal today, buy a gun.)
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To: Renfield
The .338 Federal looks intriguing as heck. While it's a different kind of cartridge than the .338 Lapua, it is more like what the .358 Winchester could have / should have been.

Worth a look as a GP hunting cartridge, IMO.

34 posted on 10/09/2007 9:50:41 AM PDT by OKSooner
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To: papertyger

You are correct on the barrel life with one exception. I use Mike Rock barrels on my long range guns. I know of more than a dozen .308 rifles with 5R barrels with more than 100,000 rounds and still shooting sub 1/2 MOA.

We’ve been testing the .338 and one person has put over 9000 rounds through his and is still maintaining sub 1/2 MOA.

The key is to not run the gun with projectiles over 3000 fps. I use 300 grain Matchkings running around 2800 fps. Very accurate (past 1800 yards) and the barrel life is prolonged greatly.

If you shoot a lot, get a Mike Rock barrel or have Mike barrel your gun for you. You won’t be sorry.

google Rock Creek Barrels for contact info. Tell him Mike in West Virginia sent you.

Mike


35 posted on 10/09/2007 9:59:07 AM PDT by BCR #226 (Abortion is the pagan sacrifice of an innocent virgin child for the sins of the mother and father.)
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To: archy

Looks like .338 Lapua Magnum factory ammo runs between $85 - $95 per box of 20. I think I’ll stick with what I got. A 20 round box of .300 Win. Mag starts at about $18.


36 posted on 10/09/2007 10:08:00 AM PDT by 300magnum (God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it. D.Webster)
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To: 300magnum

Governments must be buying it all. They’re the only ones who don’t get concerned about the price as long as you’re the low bidder.


37 posted on 10/09/2007 10:18:04 AM PDT by B4Ranch (( "Freedom is not free, but don't worry the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share." ))
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To: wardaddy

If I still had a 24 year old eye I’d give you one.


38 posted on 10/09/2007 10:21:28 AM PDT by x1stcav (If you continually have to say you support the troops, you probably don't.)
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To: 300magnum
Looks like .338 Lapua Magnum factory ammo runs between $85 - $95 per box of 20. I think I’ll stick with what I got. A 20 round box of .300 Win. Mag starts at about $18.

The .300 WM is nothing to sneeze at. US Navy rifle match competitors have used it for decades for Wimbledon Cup shoots and other long range work, and the Germans chose to have their AW snipers rifles, designated Scharfschützengewehr 22, SSG22, equipped with a folding stock and Zeiss scope and chambered for the .300 WM cartridge.

Of course, you can do what I had to and begin with .416 Rigby cases....

39 posted on 10/09/2007 10:53:30 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Osage Orange
That bottom pic...the guy is in the wrong camo for the terrain.

At least to what I can see in the rest of the pic...

See #31. It can be difficult picking spottydots to match terrain in the rocks, desert camo isn't quite right, and scrub brush abounds below the treelines. And in the AO where the Royal Marines have been working, it's cold, so the Temperate Jacket With Liner is likely to be a real popular choice.

40 posted on 10/09/2007 10:57:53 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: BCR #226
Well Mike, I surely do appreciate the referral, but i’ve already got a 5R barrel on my 700. Does that mean I had a Mike Rock right out of the box?

I don't need that kind of life, but it sure is nice to think my grandkids could get old with that rifle.

41 posted on 10/09/2007 10:59:10 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: archy

Hmmmmmmmmm?

Sniper demonstration or game warden tag?

:o)


42 posted on 10/09/2007 11:29:54 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: archy
If I were in your southpaw condition [I have been, for extended periods a few times, from injury] I think I'd be thinking about a .338 double rifle....

I'll be thinking about a double rifle in any caliber if (and only if) I win the lottery....

43 posted on 10/09/2007 11:36:41 AM PDT by Renfield (How come there aren't any football teams with pink uniforms?)
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To: archy

My cold shot rig is a old (now) Dakota Longbow in .338 lapua mag..... I’d love to have one of Malcolm Coopers designs but now that Uncle Sugar ain’t buying my toys for me any more I have to use restraint .......:o)

That Dakota Longbow has been rebuilt and re-barrelled 6 times in 12 years due the amount of ammo I put through it.....about 7000-14000 rnds a year when ammo was free. Tried Hart, Shilen and some weird German brand that an old GS weenie that worked for a S&W school talked me into that has held up the best.

BTW what is this new and improved from Ronnie Barrets little boy ....416 sumthin ???


44 posted on 10/09/2007 12:14:18 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Renfield

45 posted on 10/09/2007 12:17:33 PM PDT by RightWhale (50 years later we're still sitting on the ground)
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To: wardaddy; Travis McGee; archy
my old .338 Lapua Mag Truck Gun......


46 posted on 10/09/2007 12:59:27 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Squantos

.416 Barrett, cold bore hits @ 2500 meters.


47 posted on 10/09/2007 1:34:31 PM PDT by TEXASPROUD
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To: Squantos
my old .338 Lapua Mag Truck Gun......

You kept it in your truck, or you used it ON trucks...?

Ah, if we can only get Raufoss to build something like their Mark 211 Mod 0 .50 BMG projectile for the 8.58 x 70 mm rifles....

48 posted on 10/09/2007 1:45:29 PM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Squantos
BTW what is this new and improved from Ronnie Barrets little boy ....416 sumthin ???

Barrett's Model 99-416, the cartridge wearing the Metric System designation 10.5x83mm- Though it has the same cartridge base dimensions, it's NOT just a cut-off and necked-down .50x99 BMG case, but there's still room for 200 grains of powder or so inside.

With 400-grain bullets, circa 3,300 fps from a 29-inch barrel, 1/2 MOA groups, and supersonic beyond 1.3 Miles with a BC of .989. Similar to and competition for the 408 Chey-Tac.

I don't have one, and *probably* don't need one. But I've got access to brass and a pal's handloads, as well as his rifle and a couple of test fixtures, so I may do some playing around with the thing in the future. Just the thing if you have an infestation of pesky water buffaloes in the back yard!

49 posted on 10/09/2007 2:06:01 PM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: archy

That’s almost 10,000 footpounds of energy!!!


50 posted on 10/09/2007 2:09:44 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?)
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