TTIUWP
Posted on 03/27/2008 8:13:09 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic
I'm sure there are a lot of FReeper grease monkeys out there, so I really need some help on a problem I have with my 1954 Olds 88.
I bought her last summer in the hopes of restoring it. My problem is with the motor, a 324 V8 Rocket. It starts and runs fine, but after about 3-4 minutes, it starts to blow blue smoke out the tailpipe. Oil pressure seems fine, and compression readings are in the 110-120 range.
I was advised to remove the valve covers for inspection - when I did, the drivers side was heavily encrusted with rust-colored gunk. I cleaned it out as best as I could, but my suspicion is that the other internal parts of the engine are probably clogged with the same gunk, and that could be restricting oil flow and possibly causing the blue smoke.
I have heard that for gunked-up engines, you can use a mixture of kerosene and oil to release and dissolve the gunk. Most of the people who've tried it says it works great, but a few say stay away from it.
It's a driver, not a show car, and I really don't have the money to invest in a complete engine rebuild at this time.
What say you, FReepers?
Post your question here under mechanical and maintence forum:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
TTIUWP
Why - it would burn less fuel and pollute the enviroment less.
Where’s the fun in that!!??
My best guess would be that it needs new valve stem seals. When those get dried up, oil leaks down around the valves directly into the cylinders. Voila ... Blue Smoke from oil burning.
I wholesaled cars for a number of years at one time, and this was a common problem with older cars. We would replace the valve stem seals, and the smoke would be gone.
As far as the smoke problem goes, from the description of the symptoms I'd suspect the intake valve seals are shot. These can be replaced without removing the cylinder head if you have the right tools.
As others have posted, it’s probably the valve seals.
The reason it takes a few minutes is that the top around the valves probably isn’t flooded with oil until it’s run a few minutes. I’m not familiar with that engine, but on other engines you can replace the seals without pulling the heads. If you’re not comfortable with fiddling with rocker arms, spring retainers and such, get someone to do it for you.
When the valve covers are removed you should be able to locate the casting holes or voids that normally allow excess oil to run back down to the oil pan.
Yours are probably too plugged up to let the oil bac before it puddles around the valve stems and it then gets sucked into the combustion chamber.
Using kerosene or mineral spirits you can probe into thes plugged ares and remove as much of the crud and crust you can on both heads.
Replace the gaskets and put the covers back and use one quart of kero in the engine with 4 qts of 10-30 oil.
Start the engine and allow it to idle for about an hour while monitoring the pressure gauge and the exhaust for smoke.
I wouldn’t advise a speed test while the kero mix is in there.
I knew one guy who went to the coin carwash and used the hot water wand to flush the drains out on an old Chevy 283 engine.
Drained it, slapped on the covers, filled it with 30WT and drove it for two years with no failure.
We had a repair shop and he used to turn the empty oil bottles upside down on their tops overnight; He’d get enough oil per week to change his oil that way - all brands and weights mixed together (he was also a part-time bartender).
There is no 'miracle in can' so to speak, the closest thing is a product called "SEAFOAM".
Clean up both valve covers and any other accessible parts, then start using it per directions.
Buy the cheapest API approved dino oil and one can of Seafoam into the crankcase. Change every 1,000 miles along with the filter.
Keep the kerosene way from the oil if the engine is running. It's OK for a two or three day soak, but drain it before starting engine. The next thing is the valve guide seals, which can be R&R'd without pulling the heads. If that is not an option, consider stepping up to the next highest heat range on your spark plugs.
Also check your library and see if they have an "Auto Repair Reference Center", excellent source for specifications on old cars, all of which can be linked to your home PC.
Good Luck from another old car - old airplane aficionado.
I agree about the valve seals.
These cars also had a breather pipe instead of a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve which could get clogged and give problems when compression would build up in the crankcase. We used to take these off (normally two bolts on a tube pointing towards the ground) and burn out the oily residue.
Good luck with it.
Lordy! you've been around a while if you remember those.
Mate, I’m a Pontiac/Chev/Olds fan, so I cannot speak definitively about your particular Ford. But big V8’s tend to work similarly anyrate, particularly of that vintage up thru the mid-70’s.
So I’ll try my best here:
> I was advised to remove the valve covers for inspection - when I did, the drivers side was heavily encrusted with rust-colored gunk.
If you have rust-colored gunk then chances are good you are getting water in there, possibly from one of the water jackets in the head. More likely thru the head gasket.
> I cleaned it out as best as I could, but my suspicion is that the other internal parts of the engine are probably clogged with the same gunk, and that could be restricting oil flow and possibly causing the blue smoke.
Naturally, you should never have water in with your oil (you will always get some thru condensation, but not enough to make bucketloads of rust-colored gunk) so flushing out your engine (coolant and oil) won’t do any harm. But I doubt the guck itself is your problem. It is a symptom that luckily points us at the culprit.
Blue smoke means that oil is getting into your combustion chamber full-stop. There are four (and only four) ways that can happen: thru your valve stems, via the piston or its rings, thru a cracked head, or most likely thru the head gasket.
And there are very, very few ways that water can get into your valve cover: the most likely way is thru the head gasket letting water into your oil channels or maybe thru a cracked or warped head.
So what you have in common there is the head gasket and the head. This analysis makes sense because you say your compression is 110-120: which is acceptable for a big V8. Bad rings/holed cylinder would show up in lower compression but would not explain the guck. Bad valve seals would explain the blue smoke but not the rusty guck.
Here is what I would do:
1) remove the right head and get it checked for cracks or leaks or warps. You have to remove it anyway to get at the head gasket so might as well make sure it is in good shape. If it is warped or cracked, decide whether it is cheaper to try to replace it second hand, or to have it repaired and/or planed flat: your call.
2) replace the head gasket: you are going to have to do this anyway because you have removed the head. Carefully remove it if you can, and have a look-see if it is obviously compromised: its job (among other things) is to provide a nice tight seal, and to keep two separate systems separate.
3) replace your valve seals: you’ve got the whole mess apart anyway, might as well do a proper job of it.
4) replace your valve cover gasket.
5) consider doing the same steps on the left side: you’ve got your engine open anyway, and you’re in the mood, and for all you know the left gasket will go one day soon, so might as well...
I would be surprised if this didn’t fix your problem.
Hope that helps: I haven’t done one of these since 1981.
Cheers
*DieHard the Hunter*
> My best guess would be that it needs new valve stem seals. When those get dried up, oil leaks down around the valves directly into the cylinders. Voila ... Blue Smoke from oil burning.
That would certainly explain the blue smoke but not the rust-colored gunk.
Gotta disagree with that analysis: water is getting into the oil from somewhere, and IMO that is a bigger problem.
No harm in changing the valve seals, and it is easy and cheap to do, and as you say they dry up and get compromised quite easily. And they may explain the blue smoke. But they don’t have any interaction with water, so they cannot be contributing to the rust-colored gunk.
If I were a betting man (I’m not) I’d say the likely culprits are (in this order):
1) compromised head gasket
2) cracked or leaking head
3) compromised valve stem seals
Or just as likely, a combination of two or all three.
*DieHard*
In my experience, bad head gaskets caused overheating, and in some cases, a 'miss' often between two adjacent cylinders. A product called "Blok chek(?)" would reveal a blown head gasket.
With those compression readings, I'd be willing to invest in a complete valve job on both heads.
Thanks all for the advice!
Of particular interest is the breather tube - I don’t recall seeing one while I was under the car.
Where exactly is this tube at?
Valve stem seals are to be suspected in this.
As for cleaning the gunk out of the lube system, I have heard of an old trick involving transmission fluid. Modern ATF, like Dexron/Mercon III, is light oil with friction modifiers and detergents. The trick I have heard is to (if necessary) drain off a quart of oil to make room, then add a quart of D/M to the oil filler and idle 15-20 minutes or drive 5-10 minutes low duty. Then change the oil.
Always change the oil while hot, so as much gunk as possible is still in suspension and drained off.
Do you think the ATF would work better than something store-bought like GUNK Motor Flush, etc?
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