Sun Seems Eerily Calm

Space.com ^ | 06/11/2008 | Andrea Thompson

[cogitator]

History of Sunspot Observations

[BenLurkin]

Even if there were another Maunder minimum, he says, we would still suffer the effects of greenhouse gases and the Earth's climate would remain warm. "It doesn't overpower them at all," Hathaway said.

Well we'll find out won't we. Hopefully we won't have fallen for the hoax of man made global warming in the meantime.

[Flycatcher]

Not well written (and I'm never surprised by poor writing in popular science articles). That last item should probably be expressed as, "Prior to the Industrial Revolution, variability of solar output probably accounted for 10-30% of climate variability." Don't you think? Another way to say it is that prior to the Industrial Revolution, external forcing from the Sun accounted for about 30% of climate variability, and internal forcing (volcanoes, El Nino, AMO, PDO, snow and ice cover, etc.) accounted for the other 70%.

So what you're saying is that climate "scientists" can write either...?

[Blood of Tyrants]

The sun's energy drives all climate and weather on Earth.1

Nuh-uhh! It's cow farts and SUV's! Just ask Spotted Algore

[cogitator]

OH, I got that; I’ll have to wait and see if you figured out mine.

[chaos_5]

But these ideas aren't yet proven, and anyway, the sun's contribution is small compared to volcanoes, El Nino and greenhouse gases, Hathaway notes

Oh yeas, how silly of us to think the sun's contribution to climate is large. We had better hurry up and enact cap and trade laws before our industry causes thermal runaway.

[conservativehusker]

Thanks - That’s cool!

[cogitator]

So what you're saying is that climate "scientists" can write either...?

I'm not sure what you're asking; both formulations are a more accurate characterization of what was probably meant (at least I hope so).

[Hang'emAll]

There are records going back that far and in another article somewhere in Europe, I believe they are putting more money into researching the sunspots.

Now what gets me is if they really don’t have that much effect on the earth’s climate, why the hell is everyone counting them?

There is some good info on past history here

http://www.spaceweather.com/

[Vineyard]

Consider the Web Page titled: Ponder the Maunder (found here: http://home.earthlink.net/~ponderthemaunder/index.html ).

It is amazing to see that a high-school age young lady can “get it” but a college-educated Goron doesn’t understand the data (but then he was a “C” student.)

[Flycatcher]

I’m not sure I understand you either. Are you defending these statistics (that seemed to be pulled from a hat) or are you skeptical of them?

[The Black Knight]

So, let me get this straight...

The periods before the current one had greater sunspot activity, to correspond with global warming?

The current cycle, which saw global temperatures fall, corresponded with less sunspots than normal?

Who would figure that the Sun’s footprint is so much bigger than Carbon’s?

[chaos_5]

What has me in fits is the fact that the sun spot trend and temperature trend fluctuations are inversely related with no lag. You can take the graph of one, flip it over, and lay it on top of the other and they fit nearly perfectly. However, if you look at CO2 it's only on very large time scales, and sometimes with hundreds of years of lag, that the graphs start to look similar. Often there are situations where CO2 is going up and temperatures are going down, and vis-versa. Despite the very obvious fact we are constantly bombarded with the message that “green house gas” is warming the planet.

[Oztrich Boy]

"We still don't fully understand how the sun does this," Hathaway noted.

I suspect that it's plotting something

[Interesting Times]

Even if there were another Maunder minimum, he says, we would still suffer the effects of greenhouse gases and the Earth's climate would remain warm. "It doesn't overpower them at all," Hathaway said.

A ludicrous statement. The temperature drop associated with the Maunder (and even the Daulton) Minimum dwarf the recent small rises attributed to manmade global warming.

[milwguy]

Please go to the link below and see what Alarmist and Hansen/Gore buddy Hathaway had to say about Solar Cycle 24 back in Dec. 2006. Also his quote from todays article.........Prior to the industrial revolution, the sun probably accounted for about 10 to 30 percent of climate variability, Hathaway told SPACE.com, but now that greenhouse gases have started to build up, “the sun’s contribution is getting smaller and smaller,” he added. ..

I would ask Dr Hathaway if the sun is only responsible for 10 to 30% of climate variability, what would happen if the sun disappeared? This guy and Hansen are both tools of the Global warming crowd, and our paid to preach that gospel with our tax dollars. His forecast below from less than two years ago has been proven false already. He claims cycle 24 has started already, but by most definitions Cycle 24 will not start until the smoothed average of Cycle 24 sunspots outnumbers Cycle 23 sunspots over a three (I think) month period. Right now there is only a cycle 23 spot on the sun, and the last three months have only seen cycle 23 spots. That means that cycle 24 has NOT started, and probably will not for at least another three months. More deception on the part of our gov’t.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/21dec_cycle24.htm

Dec. 21, 2006: Evidence is mounting: the next solar cycle is going to be a big one.

Solar cycle 24, due to peak in 2010 or 2011 “looks like its going to be one of the most intense cycles since record-keeping began almost 400 years ago,” says solar physicist David Hathaway of the Marshall Space Flight Center. He and colleague Robert Wilson presented this conclusion last week at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco

Cross correlating sunspot number vs. IHV, they found that the IHV predicts the amplitude of the solar cycle 6-plus years in advance with a 94% correlation coefficient.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

" Prior to the industrial revolution, the sun probably accounted for about 10 to 30 percent of climate variability The Earth generates it's own heat now. Oh wait no it doesn't, Yes it does..."


It's amazing how the liberals view the Constitution as a " Living Breathing Document " that can be changed to suit their way ( Liberal Mental Disorder ) if they don't like what it says.
However ?? they take their junk science as ( GOSPLE TRUTH ) truth that is set in concrete that can not be changed ( that is, once they have changed the rules as they go along ).
We all have heard the news reports over the years i.e " and today in the news, Scientist found that Aspirin is so bad for you " then ? 10 years later, " and today in the news, Scientist have found that Aspirin is actually good for you ".
Another example i.e. " and in the news today, scientist have found that beer is so bad for you " and then ten years later " and today in the news, scientist have found that one glass of beer is actually good for you "
Do you see what I am getting at here ?

I just hope some liberals here reading this finally wake up and smell the coffee and realize the BS that the liberal Establishment and the MSM have been fooling them for years.
The Bible says that a double minded man is ( UNSTABLE ) in all his ways..... that must explain in part why Liberalism is a certified mental disorder.

[cogitator]

If you're talking about me, I wasn't a C student. C students don't normally get into Ph.D. chemistry programs, and I don't think they commonly consider a Ph.D. in geochemistry, either.

If you're talking about someone else, never mind.

As for Ponder the Maunder, she's an admirable example of how inquiring minds can be influenced if they aren't taught how to filter information critically.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

" Something doesn't add up with that article.
Can you spot it?

- The sun's energy drives all climate and weather on Earth.

- But the sun isn't the only thing that influences our climate

- Prior to the industrial revolution, the sun probably accounted for about 10 to 30 percent of climate variability.


Yeah, it must have been fact checked ( in other words, Liberal indoctrination ) by a liberal who conveniently leaves out the real facts, and wants to promote their Global Warming Agenda HOAX....

Yes folks,, I admit it, I am a rabid anti GLOBAL WARMING REBLE ..... !!!!!!!! ...... so burn me at the stake.


The real truth about the Global Warming Hoax ???


Listen up liberals who have been fooled by the MSM/Liberalism/Marxist plantation owners !!

The GLOBAL WARMING HOAX was started by communist Marxist who hate the USA and are trying to destroy the Military and Economic power of the USA in any way they can.

You want proof ?

Look at all the regulations that are in place and that are trying be to set in place for Green House gasses that are going to cost the American consumers TRILLIONS !! while China is being given a FREE PASS.

Look at the problem we have now with the cost of fuel for truckers, for our cars,for industry, and home heating oil ? and you don't think that higher prices for fuel won't effect our economy ?
Look at the airlines now, they are cutting back and some will go out of business.

It's the liberal communist Marxist who are to blame for the reason why we have not been able to build new nuke power plants in over 30 years, but, other Europe communist counties can ( whom you love Liberals )..

It's been 30 years since we were able to build new refineries in our own country, to produce our own oil and gasoline>
Let's not talk about the drilling for oil off our coast, because your communist buddies ( a inconvenient truth that is hard to swallow for liberals and the MSM ) ( CHINA ) are starting to drill on the same coast you say that we can not drill.

Sorry AVACADO, I went of on a rant..... the liberals need to wake up before it's to late.

[Bulwinkle]

LOL Hathaway predictied Cycle 24 to be a WHOPPER! Oppps!

Hathaway and Wilson’s prediction for the amplitude of Solar Cycle 24.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/images/cycle24/hathaway2_med.gif

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/21dec_cycle24.htm