VANITY CHAT: Best powder choice for .38 / .357 short barrel loads?

Vanity | 12-6-08 | Vanity

[OKSooner]

Quick question for handloaders:

I've got everything in place and ready to go to load up a couple of decent-sized batches of .38 and .357 loads.

The .38 loads are for practice use in a couple of airweight revolvers.

The .357s are for practice use in a couple of .357 revolvers, both with 3-inch barrels.

All of the above will be loaded with 158-grain cast bullets.

The one variable I haven't figured out is this:

WHICH POWDER IS BEST FOR USE IN SHORT-BARREL HANDGUNS?

[hiredhand]

Just a quick word...and you probably know this... but go ahead and get head space gages for the rifle cartridges. Squantos saved me from a WORLD OF GRIEF with this back around 2005 or so.

Ping me if you have questions and I'll help if I can!

[mylife]

I dont know why I didn’t think of this earlier

Recently, I bought a case of russian silver bear 5.45X39 and the damn things are loaded with 5.56 NATO bullets!

thats a dia diff of .221 vice .223 or .224. Is that safe to fire in a barrel made for .221?

[mylife]

no. I’m a neophyte dope. Headspace has to do with how the bullet fits the chamber doesnt it?

I am a big dummy on some of this stuff but was thinking about that with .308 loads.

Thats a lot of power and there isnt room for error with a cartridge like that.

Please enlighten me. I dont need no kabooms

[blackie]

Good advice and good choice! I stocked up Winchester Black Talon 9MM ammo before it was removed and use it in my carry semi-autos. I think Remington Golden Sabre ammo might be similar?

Be Ever Vigilant!!

[Petronski]

WHICH POWDER IS BEST FOR USE IN SHORT-BARREL HANDGUNS?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and recommend gun powder.

[CodeToad]

For all but the 45 Colt I use Power Pistol. It was formulated for modern handguns and specifically designed for the 40 S&W. So far I have loaded for the 38 SPL, 357, 40, and 45. In all cases the velocities were excellent, the spread in velocities minimal, temperature spreads were minimal between freezing temperatures and hot temps, and pressures were within normal range by measurement of velocities and examination of casings. I’m hooked on the stuff.

[mylife]

Hornaday XP’s are an excellent choice

[CodeToad]

P.s. Power Pistol also burns extremely clean, which also reduces flash. It doesn’t seem to produce much visible smoke if any. The firearms also have very little residue such that I can field clean them without any fuss. In a typical session at the range I shoot at least 300 rounds per pistol in 38 and 357 and 500+ rounds of 40 and 45.

[blackie]

Are you sure they’re not XTP’s?

[mylife]

Well yes. XTP’s of course

A fine defensive load

[blackie]

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=09724ced0af98ee778e8c770492eb145&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=7dd32bcf6f4c586c1277ec955c5e4171

[blackie]

I was reading an XTP forum and they agree with you. ;)

[mylife]

I have some black talons but carry XTPs as they are current manufacture and you can buy XTP loads to build your own from Widener’s

[mylife]

MAYBE I aint as dumb as I thought ☺

[hiredhand]

.308?! There's probably a LOT of expertise here with that cartridge because it's VERY popular, so I'll just chime in with what I know.

The problem I ran into was when I started loading .308 Win for an STG-58 (FN/FAL) semi-auto rifle. Prior to this, I had never loaded for any long gun semi-auto. I noticed that about a third of the time, the cartridge wouldn't permit the bolt carrier to lock fully into battery. I determined that this was NOT due to bullet seat depth first. With bolt action rifles, I had only loaded for accuracy, and part of this involves headspacing based on tension between the bolt face and cartridge case head. In all honesty, I had bit of a brain fart and just didn't give any thought to headspacing on the semi auto rifle. I left the sizing die set up the way it had been with my buddy's Rem M700 .308 (bolt action). Evidently, this produced a LACK of headspace on my semi-auto rifle!

Just to stop for a moment....headspace is that distance between the bolt face and the cartridge case head (the solid end of the case with the primer in it). Too much headspace will cause the fired cartridge to slam into the bolt face and stress the locking lugs. Too little can cause the rifle to be difficult to chamber the round (or impossible in an extreme case).

But headspace is important in semi-autos because a lot less force is available for loading and locking the mechanism. With a bolt action rifle, too little headspace can be overcome by TORQUE on the bolt handle! Just turn it HARDER! Having said that, if headspace is accounted for correctly, you should NEVER have to do this with a bolt action rifle. But with semi-autos, they don't have near the force available upon loading, so there is a condition which can occur with insufficient headspace (which is what I had). The bolt carrier and bolt didn't quite lock up. The problem is that it could have been far enough forward to fire...but NOT be locked, and thus cause a condition known as firing out of battery. From what I've read, this almost ALWAYS damages the weapon!

With the .308 Win (a.k.a. - "generally" the 7.62x51mm NATO), it headspaces between the shoulder and the case head. All rimless rifle cartridges do this. If you size it and push the shoulder back too far, you'll end up with TOO much headspace. If you don't push the shoulder back far enough, you'll end up with not enough headspace!

In all honesty...I'd rather load for .308 caliber rifle cartridges than pistol. The propellants are a LOT slower and the margin for error is a LOT wider! For example, it is "possible" to have an oopsie and toss 2gr more IMR-4064 into a .308 Win casing by mistake and still cause no damage. But do NOT try this with WST or Bullseye and an already "hot" .40S&W pistol cartridge!

...anyway...standard disclaimer here...my opinion only! ...except for that bit about headspace and firing out of battery. That's something to pay attention to!

[mylife]

I noticed that about a third of the time, the cartridge wouldn't permit the bolt carrier to lock fully into battery.

This is skeery!

I measured my cetme rifles for this condition with a feeler ga.

I have one rifle that will drop the firing pin when not in battery(not one of the cetmes) this takes all the fun out of that rifle as I have to check to see if it is locked in battery before ea shot. the firing pin doesnt go beyond the boltface in this condition but it still bothers me.

This is half the ingredients for a kaboom :(

[mylife]

Sounds like I have some learning to do

[Tijeras_Slim]

The problem with larger shot and .410 reloaders is that anything bigger than 7 1/2 will bridge in the drop tube and get stuck (then unstick at the worst time). I’ve even had 9’s bridge on occasion. So you would use the press for everything but dropping the shot. You’d have to do that manually. They do make adjustable shot dippers.

It’s worth it for me to reload .410 since I go through about 200 rounds a week at the range, and at $12 a box..... I can reload for about $3 a box with used hulls.

[mylife]

clarification:

I measured the CETMEs with no cartridge inserted. they can come into a condition were the space between boltface and chamber is out of spec due to wear on the locking rollers

[mylife]

THANKS, I figured I may have to load them manually.

Still... 5 balls of 000 buck...plunk, plunk, plunk, plunk, plunk. That didnt take long, and at commercial prices of $1.00 a rd I think its worth while