Posted on 02/07/2009 5:48:27 AM PST by BobL
At this point it’s clear that any pretense of fiscal responsibility by our government is over. Not only is spending and debt going through the roof, the long-term goals of this administration (i.e., global warming, locking up land from development, arms reduction/elimination, etc.) almost assure us that we will be Third-World within a decade, and the rest of the world will simply bypass us as our major goals will seeking food and clean water, and hoping that China, Russia, Mexico, and other countries don’t choose to exact revenge on us.
So, that brings us to the S-word, especially here in Texas. I won’t spell out the S-word, since that would probably bring in the soon-to-be formed Internet Goon Squad, so we’ll work around it. But I do think that a serious discussion of the S-word will begin to leave these web pages and move more mainstream, probably within a year , as the effects of the debt start to really to strangle people. After all, the main reason to hold together is that a larger country is generally able to project more power on the world stage and look after common interests. Since we seem to be walking away from having any military power, don’t seem to have any common interests anymore (i.e., red state, blue state divide), and are putting in place measures to assure that we never recover (i.e., Global Warming, National Health Care), the main drawbacks of breaking apart start to go away, and the benefits of breaking apart start to make more and more sense.
So, how would we here in Texas structure things without the “help” of Washington, DC? Note, I’ve already been promised by two people that Oklahoma will join us. I also think that we have a good shot at Arkansas and Louisiana, and if we get them, then Mississippi and Alabama, and, maybe, finally, North Florida would fall into place. In other words, we’d be pretty a big country, able to take care of ourselves.
My first thoughts are cultural…but then much more:
1) We could seal off our southern border, once and for all.
2) We can real employee verification for legal status.
3) English as the Official Language
4) Real welfare reform (or elimination…go to a church if you need help)
5) We could by trucks, light bulbs, toilets that flush, washing machines that clean, and SUVs again (yes, they will still be built for China).
6) We could buy those vehicles without air bags and with a much less costly (but still very effective) emission control system.
7) We could build and expand refineries, and burn coal…as much as necessary
8) We could finally reform public schools, by getting rid of tenure, teachers unions, calculators, and most computers. In other words do what has worked in the past (and hopefully have Dr. Sowell as the Education Secretary…if we have one)
9) Children could have a moment of silence without some ACLU guy screaming
10) We could handle abortion as we wish (rather than having 9 dead [or almost dead] judges dictate to us). 11) We could drill off-shore.
12) We could build as many nukes as we need or want, simply by going to France and either having them manage the task or license their (flawless) technology to us. We could then export our excess power (particularly wind power) either north or south.
13) We could eliminate labor unions and become competitive with the rest of the world. Sounds drastic, but their time has passed, and labor will have plenty of means of redress.
14) We could straighten our legal system, both criminal and civil. No more last minute appeals to federal court to stop executions, no more predatory lawsuits.
15) Needless to say, endangered species would be on their own…we are not going to sink our economy or destroy people’s lives to save something that doesn’t deserve to survive in the first place.
16) No more drawn out processes to block economic growth. There will be some processes, like streamlined environmental reviews, but those the permitting process will have to be done in something like a year (at most) – with no room for judicial interference.
17) No more threats from Washington to force seat belts or rebrand social drinkers as drunk drivers, due to a bunch of guilt-ridden loud-mouthed women (and no, I’ve ALWAYS worn my seat belt, long before it was required, and yes, we do need drunk driving laws…but not at 2 beers – and no, I never had a DUI).
18) End (to the extent possible) the intrusion of Big Brother into our society. One way is to pay for roads with the gas tax. If the tax is not high enough, then raise it. But don’t stick someone in a database every time they drive out to get milk. Same for “Smart (electric) Meters”…you’ll be hearing about just what they are capable of soon enough.
19) No more anchor babies.
20) Free market for health care (or at least much less restricted – such as the ability to buy insurance that doesn’t cover substance abuse…for those of us who don’t plan to abuse substances)
These are a few. Essentially, we could go back to where we were just several decades ago. We will still have environmental laws…cars will have to be clean, but not spotless, and definitely not electric. We will be able to raise kids as we wish and say Merry Christmas again. We will be able to tell a women they look good at work and not be sued. Jesse Jackson’s (and soon Eric Holder’s) extortion tactics will not work here. Same to ACORN and the Hispanic revolutionary bunch.
The drawbacks…just about everyone can be countered. I’ll list a few:
1. The benefit of common defense doesn’t help when we don’t have a defense in the first place and have withdrawn as a superpower – due to being broke, if no other reason.
2. The benefit of a large, open, market doesn’t help when the rest of the market is a total basket case, more interested in looking like Zimbabwe and saving the world from Global Warming.
3. The idea of trying to fix the system from within, which would be ideal, is not possible when you have a Supreme Court making law…cannot be done. The Constitution is non-functional.
4. The possibility that Washington will resist…only legitimate drawback.
Finally, how would the rest of the country react? Hard to tell. At first they will not believe we are serious, since it’s been a long time before there was this type of move. Next, there will be a large faction that will be thrilled to have us bible-thumpers (and the Bush’s) out of their country, so that they can finish their work in making their territory some type of “workers’ paradise”. Finally, there will be a segment that will figure out that we will have quite a stranglehold of the remaining territory, given our chemical, oil, and refining capability, and then especially if we hold the mouth of the Mississippi River, and may actually want to fight. Which faction wins…hard to tell, only one way to find out.
As to our share of the debt (which will be about $1.5T by then), easy – we forego our share of the Social Security Trust Fund and take care of our seniors without Washington’s help. It should be about a wash. If they don’t like that idea, then maybe we take the debt, and simply default on it – not a great way to start, but certainly better than trying to pay it down.
So, what do you guys think? I’m not really interested in the feasibility of the idea, but more the mechanics of it and what outcome could be. Since, if the outcome can be made to work, the feasibility will improve as Washington realizes we mean business. And keep in mind, I’m just trying to get ahead of the curve here…this discussion will begin soon, because of our debt, if nothing else.
I forgot the Second Amendment, but let’s just say that military-style training is required in High School, along with some military or civilian service. We should use Israel as our role-model here...as we may not have many friends.
Mr. niteowl
Honestly I think we are seeing more of the F-word (Fascism) than the S-word (Socialism). But both are equally on display with Obama Soetoro and his left wing legions and radicals.
Or Constitutional rights to Representation are under attack and the demorats are working towards embedding their political power into all aspects of the private sector.
Eveything for the State. Politically enforced Union with the State.
Both Socialism (Marxism) and Fascism (Progressive) are the children ideologies of Dictatorship.
We are where we are now because both ideolgies have manifested here in the United States. First the Progressive movement which started with Woodrow Wilson and then the Marxist sixtes counter-culture revoluion.
Now the two are combining right before our eyes.
Any state that wants to do this is going to run into a few problems, a major one being people who rely on their SS for income.
Assuming that SS payments would just stop, and that residents would no longer have federal taxes withheld from their paychecks, an idea to fix this is to sanction legitimate charities with the ability for donors to set up withholding for whatever amount the donor wishes to donate.
I don’t know about you, but if they stopped taking close to half my pay, I’d be willing to donate a good bit to help folks in the state who needed assistance.
This way, help would go to people who really needed it, and nobody would be forced by the state to participate.
Just a thought...it would cut down on propaganda sob stories anyway.
I know that. I think you mean to ping the other guy. :)
Any state that wants to do this is going to run into a few problems, a major one being people who rely on their SS for income. Assuming that SS payments would just stop, and that residents would no longer have federal taxes withheld from their paychecks, an idea to fix this is to sanction legitimate charities with the ability for donors to set up withholding for whatever amount the donor wishes to donate.
Showing what a lie and a joke SSI are. Logically the government has been telling me that is MY retirement fund, based on my (and my employers) contributions. So what if Wyoming opts out. The Social Security Administration / Trust Fund still has (IMHO) a moral duty to pay back individuals who have paid in what they are owed. If they didn't, a lot of retirees would move to a state still participating in the system, or at least rent post office boxes in Denver.
CWII ping for discussion of secession in a vanity posting.
Agreed on the moral duty considering what they’ve promised, but the charity idea would most likely more than replace the money necessary for people who really needed SS to live on.
Others, who just wanted it because they felt it was owed to them, can get a Denver PO box.
If you’re gonna cut ties, you have to cut them, not quibble over money that was spent long ago.
Understand. There will be rules for immigrants from the North...such as having paid income taxes in their previous country, and of course being fluent in English.
“Any state that wants to do this is going to run into a few problems, a major one being people who rely on their SS for income.”
I’ve done some thinking on this and believe that we should still have a backstop. However, it would be much more difficult to get on the equivalent of Social Security. For example, if you went to the government for money, they would first go to your kids and see if they can get the money from them. If not, then other options might be explored. Finally, the state could step if no one else is available. But it would be welfare.
In the end, most people would take care of their parents, so the parents don’t have to go begging. That’s the way it worked for the first 4900 years of recorded history.
“Don’t expect much from Mississippi. I think half or more of the population here in on some form of welfare. “
I hope you’re wrong. We really need you guys for control of the river. But I expect you guys to come along, given that you are a red state. And once in...the idea of living off welfare will be over.
But why not have the backstop run privately by a non-profit with money that is donated by willing participants?
Agreed, the bar should be set higher and there should be a definite need. However, I’d really like to see as many things as possible like this privatized and run with money that is given out of the kindness of people’s hearts rather than taken at gunpoint.
I know I’d donate to it.
Hah...there already is one! I was thinking of starting one...lol
May I be on the ping list, please?
Personally, I think Obama and his buddies are going to "crash the ambulance", so to speak. When the federal welfare payments stop, the people who are depending on that will be pissed, big time, and some will riot. Others, though, will be smart enough to quickly form strong regional allegiances - if it involves being able to eat on a regular basis.
“But why not have the backstop run privately by a non-profit with money that is donated by willing participants?”
Agree in principle and definitely worth a try, but the amount of money needed may not allow it to work out. In any case, the money should be channeled through non-profits, so that there can be some accountability as to how it’s spent.
Hey, if it happens, I’m coming down there.
“Hey, if it happens, I’m coming down there.”
Please do...automatic citizenship for anyone who’s been a FReeper since 2005 (that way I’m covered).
Yea - I do think it will be a lonely world. There will be a very hostile US, but I trust the liberals up there to make sure that they never become a military threat. To the south, it could get ugly...we need to be strong, and may need to project our strength to protect our interests.
Now would be a good time to start thinking about relocating to Texas. I know a lot of us already have.
We’ll be the Israel of North America.
When Texas becomes an independent republic again, maybe I can get one of my cousins to sponsor me so I cam be a legal immigrant to the ‘new’ Republic of Texas.
“Now would be a good time to start thinking about relocating to Texas. I know a lot of us already have.”
Me included. Refugee from California a long time ago. Never regretted it. The two rules for basically free immigration are: (1) Fluency in English; (2) Having been a net payer of US income tax for the past 4 out of 5 years (i.e., paying income tax and then getting twice the amount back because of credits doesn’t count). If you don’t meet (1) or (2) then you have to prove yourself worthy, through a much longer process.
“We’ll be the Israel of North America.”
Maybe...maybe not. We still won’t have the religious hatred aimed against us (unless the old USA goes Muslim). It may not be the end of the world...and we will have the jugular regarding resources (i.e., they’d be lucky to get a fishing pier approved, given the bunch they’d be left with in charge).
“When Texas becomes an independent republic again, maybe I can get one of my cousins to sponsor me so I cam be a legal immigrant to the ‘new’ Republic of Texas.”
See earlier post...if you speak English fluently and actually paid income taxes (i.e., not a welfare case), you’ll be welcome almost without question.
Well people can be brought in, of course (provided they actually pay taxes and speak English). As far as Nebraska, it would be great to have them for the agriculture they bring us (and yes, they can use pesticides again), but they may have to jettison their football team...as a gesture of good will.
I think it would be a good idea to start having conventions/meetings with people from all of those states, and others (like me) who would move to one of those states if necessary. We have seen the enemy and there's no point in waiting to see how much further they can destroy America before we take action.
That's just what I said. lol... I'm sure there will be hundreds of thousands of people who would join us. The feds may not have many people left in "their country." Of course, they won't have the revenue either. ;o)
That first paragraph nicely sums it all up.
With CA now shutting down, TX (and all other states) should begin contingency plans for total federal failure.
States won’t secede from a viable USA. Regions will peel away when Washington is just a toothless impotent joke. Regional independence will just be ratifying the facts on the ground.
“That first paragraph nicely sums it all up.
With CA now shutting down, TX (and all other states) should begin contingency plans for total federal failure.”
Thanks...we all have to watch out for complacency. It is nearly impossible to imagine this country being TOTALLY BROKE (and I mean where the middle class is fighting for food and water), yet it is just as impossible to imagine how this country will get out of this debt mess without a meltdown.
Yesterday, I read an article about Russia, as they try to deal with similar problems. Despite public demands for spending, Putin said that a spending spree (i.e., stimulus) is STUPID to do when you are trying to deflate a debt bubble. He then said that government spending would be chopped, but the military would be the top priority. Want to guess which country pulls out first and which of the two is a world power in a decade?
In my several decades of following politics, I NEVER thought that I would look to Russia for guidance on how to run a country when there are problems...but I guess things have changed.
“States won’t secede from a viable USA. Regions will peel away when Washington is just a toothless impotent joke. Regional independence will just be ratifying the facts on the ground.”
Definitely. If the USA were viable, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But given the shackles that Obama is about this put this country in, and the debt that we are being loaded up with, that toothless impotent joke status is (to me) just around the corner.
The straw that broke the Soviet Union’s back was the inability to pay employees. California is now starting to do the same.
Yep...
What about Arizona?
“What about Arizona?”
Obviously the more the merrier, but it’s critical to keep the new country contiguous, which means that New Mexico would also be required, and they are quite flaky. But, if possible, then join in...or just move here.
It would be ideal to cover most of the Southern border (realizing of course, that Kalifornia is a lost cause)
“I think it would be a good idea to start having conventions/meetings with people from all of those states, and others (like me) who would move to one of those states if necessary. We have seen the enemy and there’s no point in waiting to see how much further they can destroy America before we take action.”
Yea - but we need to be very careful about getting marginalized at this point...as that would set us way back. I’d prefer to work under the radar and try to get the initial plans in place - have something workable and then pick up a well-respected politician to lead the charge (sounds like an oxymoron, but they do exist).
So, we need to be careful about jumping the gun. Right now, the general public believes that we’re just going through another routine recession (maybe a bit rougher than usual, but certainly not a meltdown). If we move out now, we simply look like sore losers from the election. So, not yet.
“It would be ideal to cover most of the Southern border (realizing of course, that Kalifornia is a lost cause)”
It really doesn’t matter if you think about it. In any case, we’ll have to defend all of our borders, and California will leak like a sieve, so the old US will simply fill up from there.
That’s exactly right. When Soviet Army officers and troops were not paid, they went through a period of utter beggery. Under those circumstances, the troops were both unwilling and unable to force the discontented national republics to stay in the USSR. They were literally living off of the charity of the “rebels” in some cases. Soldiers were digging potatos and officers were cleaning offices to make ends meet.
We may meet the same fate, if the economy collapses.
I’m not a sports fan, have not interest.
The game we are talking about is for Keeps.
I am a Native Texan, but I am also a patriotic American.
Have no desire to see the U.S. broken up.
Defend her WE will, in spite of the wishes of the Kenyan.
If he blinks, OK. If not, so be it.
ps. Just don't let GW Bush or any of the New World Order globalists anywhere near the government!!!
COME JOIN US!!!!
Just have a passport ready to visit the old country. when you go there, you’ll have a blast, as their currency will be worthless.
I agree, Bush - NO WAY!!! We need credible conservatives (sorry, but Ron Paul, please don’t apply - although he could make an excellent Finance Minister). Good people do exist in Texas...but it’s hard to think of one that has gone to DC and come back uncorrupted. We will have to pull them out of the state level.
They sure will miss you taxpayers up there.
And also, don’t wait too long, or you may lose automatic citizenship, based on residency. As this movement pics up steam, we’ll have to set a cut-off date, after which people are considered immigrants, even if they live here (to avoid getting flooded at the end by liberal economic refugees...and there will be millions). Not the end of the world for people like you, but it will (unfortunately) be a hassle.
Fascism by definition is National Socialism. Checkout what the initials NAZI stand for.
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