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To: Liberty1970
"We have a lot of data from evolutionary biology and population genetics that clearly demonstrates that life is degrading (as actually observed, even if we restrict ourselves to beneficial mutations) and that significant innovation by chance mutations is out of the question.

Complete and utter nonsense. Even with a virus, scientist can witness first hand evolutionary changes where the virus becomes more complex and adapts to survive and thrive in varying environments or conditions.

This is what kills me about creationist. They expect that for a theory to accurate or "provable", it needs to be replicated or produced in a lab someplace. Ridiculous. Science can't replicate gravity, but that doesn't diminish the theory that explains gravity and it's effects in a physical world.

The fact that in 2009, in the most scientifically advanced society on the planet, we have a large group of people that want to teach their religious beliefs in a scientific classroom is frightening with respect to America's ability to continue to be a leader, rather than a follower in scientific innovation.

What's even more disturbing is that the GOP seems handcuffed and beholden to such idiocy and that some people label such fantasy as "conservative ideology". When did the philosophy of Adam Smith, Edmund Burke and Russel Kirk get hijacked by such lunacy?

93 posted on 05/19/2009 9:53:18 AM PDT by Big_Monkey (Flubama - bringing disease everywhere he goes.)
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To: Big_Monkey
Complete and utter nonsense. Even with a virus, scientist can witness first hand evolutionary changes where the virus becomes more complex and adapts to survive and thrive in varying environments or conditions.

You are mixing up several different things. Yes, there is evidence of adaptation due to a variety of mechanisms, including an occasional random mutation. However there are no known examples of them becoming 'more complex' in a way that would tend to support the notion of molecules-to-man evolution. All the examples we have, and there is quite a lot of data in the field of evolutionary biology now, is of neutral shifts or degenerative mutatations that by some fluke provide an adaptive advantage (such as loss of flight on an island-dwelling beetle, such that it doesn't get blown out to sea.)

If you have any mutation examples that you think would support evolutionism, please do share them. I think the total one-sidedness of the evidence of evolutioniary biology (empirical science, not the historical guessing games of the religious ideologues) speaks for itself. Your grasp of conservatism is deficient if you think it is remotely compatible with evolutionism (which undergirds all the anti-conservative ideologies). Burke and Smith, for example, were certainly creationists and their writing is founded on a creationist worldview.

94 posted on 05/19/2009 11:48:03 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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