Posted on 01/13/2010 1:08:11 PM PST by Seizethecarp
Discrepancies in the spelling of names and full titles of hospital administrators in local Kenyan papers and remote medical society databases are not conclusive of anything but that there are discrepancies.
It is Lucas Smith's CPMG BC filed in federal court under penalty of perjury, and Judge Carter giving credibility to Lucas Smith's affidavit regarding Taitz and by extension credibility to Smith's Kenya BC that is a problem to Obama and to folks who exhibit Cass Sustein-like troll behavior on this thread.
Dear Mik Taerg aka Great Kim,
I have answered your claims MANY MANY MANY times. Just because you show up on various websites for 276th time asking the same questions which I have answered 275 times doesn’t mean that I haven’t answered your question.
How many times I have called you out for the half rate researcher that you are? How many times have I called you out for the forger that you are? Your scribd.com forgery is still misleading viewers to this day.
What about your fabled telephone conversations with Dr. Maganga? Why didn’t he tell you that he was not chief admin at the time of the date stamp on the birth certificate?
I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on here. Is that what you are doing, trying to tire me out? What, you figure that if you ask the same questions over and over and I finally stop answering that you will have proved you wild theories to be correct?
I have read over your posts at politijab.com. TALK ABOUT WILD AND CRAZY. It appears that you are certified fruit cake. One moment you state that I(Lucas) am a harmless prankster. The next moment you state that I (Lucas) am a dangerous international criminal.
Your rants change 180 degrees from week to week.
And you made a claim on Politijab.com that the birth certificate hospital stamp contains a fake telephone number and a fake email address. You totally lied about this. Others and myself have emailed the hospital for confirmation and have received email replies. Others and myself have called the telephone number and have been answered by “Coast General Hospital.”
You just make it up as you go along. Get a life, or at very least, stop with the half rate research.
Go find new evidence. (btw, that doesn’t mean “create”)
I’ve silently followed the thread of discussion about the Kenyan Birth Certificate. I’ve also read a lot of postings in your youtube videos. You claimed to have refuted those who claim that the KBC is a forgery. That’s not what I’ve observed. It seems that when you’re unable to refute, you default to ad hominem which is an indication that you lost the argument. Please don’t take this as an attack on you. It is just an observation! There is this one post on your video that stuck in my mind and I’d really appreciate it if you give me an answer...please prove that you went to Kenya!
we should take a better look at Lucas’ affidavit. What it basically says is that what he has shown to court is a true copy of what he holds. Nowhere does the affidavit state that it’s a true copy of a Kenyan document. So even if what he holds is a forgery Lucas believes his affidavit does not amount to perjury. Also what you call discrepancies are sufficient to demand some explanation from Lucas. The wrong CA, the mispelled name amount to evidence of fraud. Add the fake african pics shot in Santo Domingo, no answer to which countries he travelled through on the way from Congo to Kenya, no answer to which “water company” sent him there, no showing of a visa or other travel document. There is absolutely nothing Lucas has ever done which does not amount to yet another fraud. Why this time, against all contrary evidence, he should be considered trustworthy I truly cannot understand.
Dear Lucas Smith aka Inspector Smith aka Colmado Naranja,
the claims that the email was invented has been retracted months ago. I was at the beginning of my search on your hoax. I was testing all the elements of your document.
Only later had I found out about Maganga’s name and about who was CA on Feb 19th 2009. And this is were I stay today.
The more I investigated, and as thing surfaced about you. I became convinced about your criminal potential. So that is how I changed my opinion about you. At the beginning I thought you just wanted to have some fun. Later on I realized how totally trapped you are in your own plot. The further you go the harder it will be for you to come back to reality and admit your fraud. But you are still in time and I think many would appreciate.
It is not by making characterial attacks that we can dodge the issues which are still there:
maganga was not CA on Feb 19th 2009, Jennifer Othigo was, he was appointed later.
maganga’s name is heltan and not helton.
It would be nice to discuss these two arguments and some piece of supporive evidence from you (a kenyan Visa with a date stamp, some piccs from kenya, etc. At least you could show a congolese visa since you claim to have been there on a gvt. mission.
See lucas, the fact that you have posted photos of yourself in Santo Domingo claiming to be in Africa is indicative to premeditation.
2. You claim that Dr James O.W. Ang-awa who worked in Nairobi must have also worked in Mombasa. Hmm! Let's see how practical that was in 1961. The distance between Mombasa and Nairobi is 273 miles(That's roughly the distance between Castaic and San Jose, California which is 269 miles). Modern day travel time between Mombasa and Nairobi by road is nine (9) hours considering the road condition from the topographically flat Mombasa to the mountainous region of Nairobi. It would have taken Dr. Ang-awa considerable time to travel between two cities in 1961. What is the likelihood for a prominent Doctor from the Dominion of Kenya to cross border to Zanzibar just to work in Mombasa? Zanzibar had its own healthcare delivery system which is independent from that of the system in the Dominion of Kenya.
I do not know Lucas Smith and cannot personally affirm the authenticity of his CPGH BC, which can only be done by Kenyan officials under the FRE, and not by you or me.
Mik Taerg: You obviously can’t tell the difference between your personal impressions and evidence. You dishonestly characterize and conflate your personal impressions to be evidence of fraud and then go on public threads to make libelous accusations against FReeper InspectorSmith.
Lucas Smith, with his affidavit explaining in a brief summary how he came to possess the CPGH BC, made himself available to the parties, including Obama’s DOJ, to be deposed on all of the details backing up his affidavit under penalty of perjury. If Taitz's case had not been dismiees, under a deposition that Smith willingly and repeatedly offered to submit to, Smith would be required to divulge to the DOJ and the Court answers to all of the questions you have raised. The DOJ would easily be able to "impeach" (send up the river) witness Lucas Smith if he made false statements about the slightest detail in his affidavits. Remember how OJ got off in part because Furman didn't recall using the "n-word" during a play rehersal?
My own research has shown me that Lucas Smith has lots of reasonable explanations available for all of the questions you have raised that don’t include fraud. I say this as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE). Your credential is what, Mik Taerg?
I should have not thrown in “Dominion of Kenya” (1963-1964) as I’m sure you’ll take for your talking point...I’d rather write my last statement as...
“What is the likelihood for a prominent Doctor from the KENYA COLONY (where Nairobi is) to cross border to the PROTECTORATE OF KENYA (where Mombasa is) which is under the Zanzibari sovereignity, just to work in Mombasa? Zanzibar had its own healthcare delivery system which is independent from that of the system in the KENYA COLONY.
bump
Jerome Corsi raised this but was forced to retract it, especially after it was proved that his own duaghter, a prominent Kenyan judge, was born in Mombassa.
Here is an old post of mine:
Looks like Lucas Smith, with the help of Freepers, has forced Corsi to reduce his prior list of 8 points of rejection down to 3 points, 2 of which amount to hospital “administrators had no knowledge” “hospital refuses to verify”. Corsi’s lawyerly language allows for Smith’s document to be valid because the hospital administrators didn’t declare it to be invalid, they only refused to verify it or had no knowlege of anyone verifying it.
The only major (non-quibble) point left is whether Ang’awa is on record delivering babies in Mombassa now that Corsi has had to retract his prior flat-out declaration that Ang’awa “never worked at any hospital in Mombassa”.
Corsi’s backdown was pointed out by commenter “no2obots” in Smith’s Youtube comments:
Jerome Corsi: 8/25: “Dr. James O.W. Ang’awa, ...was a physician who worked in Kenya during the 1960s; however, he worked at Kenyatta National Hospital in Nairobi. Dr. James O.W. Ang’awa never worked at any hospital in Mombasa.”
Corsi,9/2: “In 1960, Dr. James O.W. Ang’awa... took over Port Reitz tuberculosis hospital, a few miles from Coast Province General Hospital, but no documentation has been found that Ang’awa ever delivered babies at Coast Province General...”
Corsi claims the footprint is clear enough for him to declare it suspect, but the document is not clear enough to begin validation. My wife, the neonatal nurse, researched studies showing that baby footprints have been found to be around 80% worthless for ID due to pervasive over-inking and smudging.
Despite still claiming “evidence it is a forgery,” Corsi now invites Lucas Smith to submit the document for verification!
1 posted on 09/03/2009 10:43:07 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
“Corsi’s lawyerly language allows for Smith’s document to be VALID because the hospital administrators didn’t declare it to be INVALID, they only refused to verify it or had no knowlege of anyone verifying it.”
You’re a highly educated person, and I’m sure you’ve already encountered what professors in philosophy call the “fool’s logic” for example...
” Eve must have given Adam an apple, because it is not written in the Bible that it was not an apple she had given him.”
“You must be guilty because you invoked the 5th”
The hospital’s refusal to validate Lucas’ Kenyan BC does not make that document valid! The inclusion of that KBC with Lucas’ affidavit to the law suit does not make that KBC authentic!
“The hospital’s refusal to validate Lucas’ Kenyan BC does not make that document valid! The inclusion of that KBC with Lucas’ affidavit to the law suit does not make that KBC authentic!”
Dr. Ang'awa was on record running a TB hospital and doing TB research in Mombasa at a different hospital and his daughter was born in Mombasa. Drs often practice at multiple hospitals in a municipality. You started by claiming that Ang'awa had no links to Mombasa, which has been disproved.
See Evidence that Ang'awa ran a Mombasa hospital in 1960:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Btb667glnuIC&lpg=PA68&dq=" rel="nofollow">books.google.com/books%22James%20Ang’awa%22&pg=PA108#v=onepage&q=ang%E2%80%99awa&f=true
I have never said Smith's CPGH BC is authentic. I have only said that those who declare it to be a hoax have yet to present evidence that convinces me. Yet those folks feel free to libel Lucas Smith based only on suspicions and questions.
Whose job is it to prove What?
If I hand you a business card that says Im the King of France should I expect YOU to PROVE I am not ?
Lucas needs to release pictures which he says he has of himself and the people who helped him, standing in front of the hospital in Mombassa preferably with a BC in his hand and some sort of info that shows WHEN he was there. THAT is HIS story the one HE told. If he is not willing to release such pictures it is not worth my time , your time, or anyone’s time to talk to him.(there are other things he could release which would prove some part of his story i.e.: a passport appropriately stamped)
The fact that he has NOT released any thing that remotely verifies this story says a Hell of a lot about him don’t you think? ...In fact the video and other stuff (remember Andy Lenny) he Has put out is very obscure (on purpose?) and he spends all his time wresting with minutiae from the document.
I have never said it is anyone's job to prove anything. I am just examining the facts as they emerge one at a time and assigning probabilities as to what is true in my own mind. I just object to folks declaring a document a hoax and libeling Lucas Smith based on suspicions or inconsistencies.
Under the FRE, only Kenyan authorities can authenticate Smith's CPGH BC or the underlying document in the hospital files, if it still exists. Lucas Smith can't legally authenticate it. No pictures, videos or passports produced by Lucas Smith will do that.
There are many reasons why Smith might want to be vague or even misleading regarding how the document was obtained up until he gives his formal deposition under a court order.
If there is bribery in Kenya that has been going on to prevent authentication and that bribery suddenly changes and goes the other way towards release, then Lucas Smith could have an extremely valuable story and it would be in his interest to withhold as much of that story as possible until the right moment.
I think it is very reasonable with the info at hand to state the Smith BC is a hoax.
Again if Smith wants to be taken seriously he needs to verify HIS story. If he isn't willing to do that (whatever his reasons) no one SHOULD take him seriously and indeed no one (at least no one whose opinion I respect) does take him seriously.
This is especially true because of his illustrious past.
And please refer to me as the King of France
One more thought ...if Smith writes up his story and goes to a reputable publisher hoping to get the book published what do you think they will say?
You are asking for something that only the notoriously corrupt and Obama-family connected Kenyan authorities can do, not Smith.
If the MSM took a camera crew into the CPGH with an aggressive reporter, such as Geraldo, you might get verification, or they could interview Maganga or Ang'awa’s daughter, but Obama is still being protected. The very week Lucas Smith announced that he had this BC and greased a palm to get it, there was a police shake-up in Kenya at the top. Who knows what is in the hospital files now.
For all we know someone's life or livelihood could be at risk if Lucas Smith let all of the details come out, just as it is with true espionage. You don't know and can't prove if it is a hoax, even if you take it upon yourself to say so. I chose not to say either way pending more information.
A publisher couldn't get authentication that it could accept without Kenyan authorities blessing it, which no one will trust either way.
Ultimately I believe that only release of Obama HI vital records that open the possibility of a Kenyan birth will then swing investigation by those with money and influence towards Kenya and Lucas Smith's BC.
There is a big difference between Smiths story and the verification of the BC....that is why I say “HIS story’
Smith could easily verify that he was in Africa like he said he was..... perhaps he could verify it was on the date he said he was there.
If he was smart he could verify that he went to the Hospital like he said he did. (a picture of him in Africa in front of the hospital)
If he did that much I would say maybe he got the real BC and maybe he didn’t ...but I would be less likely to say he cooked the whole thing up because he would show SOME verification of the story.
The final test of the validity of the document would have to be in a court of law.
You are not using common sense.
Had I been smart enough to do what Smith says he did I would be certain to bring back evidence that it happened the way I said. An airline ticket or something
Any thinking person would.
Smith instead has put out evidence that cannot be verified (his shaky shaky video) which could have been shot in any third world country or maybe Chicago.His picture of him and Andy Lenny in an unknown airport
He needs to put up or shut up
Smith needs to be better than Obama ...He is not
Credentials ? Since when has this become about credentials ?
Regardless my credentials here is what I have provided.
1 On Feb 19th 2009 Jennifer Othigo and not Heltan Maganga was CA of CPGH. I have provided sources and links. Look back
2 Maganga’s name is Heltan and not Helton as stamped and spelled on Lucas’ fake. Again I have provided video, articles, directories, letters. Most recently Lucysmom has added another source (the second directory).
So, Mr.Certified Fraud Examiner, my credentials are Certified Lucas Smith Debunker: CLSD.
“Had I been smart enough to do what Smith says he did I would be certain to bring back evidence that it happened the way I said.”
I totally agree that Lucas Smith has not yet provided authentication for his document, but neither have denouncers provided undisputed proof of flaws or fraud. So I take a neutral stance as to its authenticity. What isn't common sense about that?
If Smith were on trial for forging a BC, I don't think he could be convicted because it can't be proved one way or the other.
Folks who libel Smith on the other hand by declaring his document is a hoax due to faulty provenance, haven't proved their case either. Are folks who declare something a hoax without proof using common sense?
Provenance, while important, as nothing to do with ultimate authentification. People tell false stories regarding how they came to possess genuine controversial articles all of the time, perhaps most of the time! That is common sense to me. I'm not saying Lucas Smith did that, but he may be protecting people that he may need to rely on in the future, for example.
I can think of a dozen features of the CPGH BC that various folks have declared “hoax” starting with the eight declared suspicious by Corsi and actual hard evidence has been found to support most of them and for the rest at least some evidence. I personally was one of the first to find the Wiki site that showed that Kenya used two distinct date formats including the one used on the BC that debunkers pounced on as evidence of a hoax.
Common sense is not overstating your evidence and holding back on libeling folks until you really have the evidence, in my book. Your mileage may vary.
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