Pennsylvania's college drop-out rate traced to high schools

Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | 3/14/2010 | Amy Crawford

[BenKenobi]

True, I’m a tutor and this deficiency keeps food on my table. I see all kinds but I enjoy actually getting to teach these kids so that they can excel at a university level.

[BenKenobi]

“Most all high schools, even small schools, now days have AP and dual credit classes. These cost even less than community college so high school students can get their first year and more knocked out so there’s no need for a community college pit stop. Passing the SAT or ACT with a medium writing score gives them one semester of freshman English. Taking AP tests, SAT subject tests and CLEP tests will either give them credit for their basics or will allow them into higher levels. High school students can also take dirt cheap online classes. Taking 2 years of high school foreign language will exempt them from taking it in college. With all that’s available there is no excuse not to graduate from high school without at least one year of college credit under their belt. If worked right, a kid from our little podunk high school could have upwards of 70 hours college credit by graduation.”

This. I did IB diploma and it was extremely helpful.

[metmom]

That’s not the point. The point is is that some people simply cannot afford to spend what it costs for an entire 4 years at a big name university.

This still is a free country, you know, and even if you don’t choose to do so yourself, anyone who wants to use a community college to offset part of their college expenses is free to do so and should be able without someone injecting their unsolicited opinion into the matter.

You don’t want to do it that way?

Fine.

Let others chart the course for their own lives. It’s no skin off your back.

[newguy357]

I absolutely agree! I believe that Charles Murray has suggested that only the top 10% of the bell curve should go to college. The rest would be far better served with training in the trades.

While I tend to agree, the difficulty is in when and how you determine the top 10% of the bell curve. I have known many (and was one) high school students who were 60-70th percentile in their graduating class according to GPA, mainly because of being bored out of their minds, then went to university and graduated summa cum laude with difficult degrees (physics in my case). It would have been a shame to send kids like that to become a car mechanic when the reason for their poor high school grades was primarily the fact that high school civics, biology, english, etc. is a complete joke. It is glorified day care. On the flip side, I have also known many of the top 5-10% kids from my high school who struggled at the university level and are now working, ten years later, in rather menial jobs.

[christianhomeschoolmommaof3]

You have 401K left to bet? :)

[wintertime]

While I tend to agree, the difficulty is in when and how you determine the top 10% of the bell curve
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

1)Stop the university level remedial courses. Demand that students enter four year colleges and universities fully prepared.

2) Insist that all students take the basic courses demanded of those who are majoring in the field. For instance, if an engineering student must take English literature 101 with the English majors and American History with the history majors, then the reverse should be true. The English, history, psychology, and pottery majors should be required to take the **same** Calculus and Chemistry courses sitting side by side with the science majors. That alone would weed out those who were not in the top 10%.

If a student flunks out in the first semester it is a lot less expensive for that student than taking a year or more of remedial courses. Simply failing to pass would eliminate those not capable of succeeding.

As for remedial courses: If a student needs them, he would likely need them for training in the trades as well, therefore, I do support their use on the community college level. They are far less expensive for the student in this setting for any student needing them for the trades or for admission to a four year university.

We won't see this though because higher education is **NOT** about educating students necessarily. It is a jobs program for professors.

[newguy357]

Very interesting suggestions—thanks for your response.

[aberaussie]

Someone needs to tell some of these professors that you don’t end a sentence with a preposition.

Some grammarians are questioning that rule. It really is just an arbitrary rule. What are most people likely to say, "What did you step on?" or "On what did you step?"

I can remember being made fun of for making some rather awkward sentences as a teenager trying to follow that rule.

[bgill]

Banning opinions are you? All hail, metmom!

Show me where I said you couldn’t go to a community college.

[shag377]

Heya!

In your post, you reference the young lady wishing to attend college. I cannot count the obscene number of students who leave my area HS where I teach for the local community college and/or regional university, only to find out that college does not cater to your needs quite like the high school does.

To wit: a former student, whose father was sup’t of the school system did just that and pulled a buck shot, viz 0.0, after one semester. All of a sudden, who your father is, how much money you have etc. does not matter when it comes to schools with endowments and paying tuition.:)

Ah well, I only hope my two will fair as well as yours, although I will have to kill them if they take Greek. (I did. *shudder*)

:)

[SoftballMominVA]

Hey Shag — guess what? My younger daughter is MINORING in Ancient Greek. She LOVES it!

I’ve asked her - will this help you on the MCAT?
Not really
Will this help you on your GRE?
Not really
Does this have any use in your real or future life?
Not really

But, she loves it, so who am I to question - I’m only the mother :)

[SoftballMominVA]

My younger daughter carried the equivalent of 34 or 36 semester hours into her college (There is some confusion over the combination credits that still has to be sorted out) In essence, she transferred in ALL of her liberal arts requirements, and could have transferred some of her science, but decided to not move those over. The AP credits allowed her to enter school as a sophomore and will allow her to take a semester off for a trip abroad to London her third year.

If a kid is smart enough for the AP classes and tests, I strongly recommend them as it gives so much freedom to maneuver while in college/university

[petitfour]

My kids are appalled at what most college students write like, even those who are English or writing majors. And my son is appalled at what his English writing prof handed out as examples of acceptable technical writing.

Someone needs to tell some of these professors that you don’t end a sentence with a preposition.

Please try that one again. Ugh. And then please forgive me for nitpicking. :-)

[metmom]

LOL. I must have been tired.

I learned a lot homeschooling the kids but am a product of the public school system myself.

*They are appalled at how most college students write....*

FWIW, I’m not a English major.

[petitfour]

LOL I picked up my pet peeve in college from a history prof and one of his teacher assistants. I suppose I knew better prior to college because I had great public school English teachers, and my mother was a grammar nut.

[metmom]

I suppose that my public school teachers did try to teach me grammar at one point or another.

I do remember sitting through an English class in 11th grade BORED out of my mind as the teacher tried to explain to the class what adverbs were and how to use them.

I could not have cared less. (My pet peeve is those who say “I could care less” when they really mean that they could not have cared less.)

[petitfour]

I laugh when I read daughter’s posts on her FB page. She picks on the grammar of her friends. She has not had great high school English teachers, but she had some very good teachers in elementary and middle school. And then there are her parents who harp on writing skills more than the average parent. Daughter took the SAT over the weekend and came home making fun of the students from the best high school in the city. (top 20 in country) She said those students who were sitting near her had written maybe 1 paragraph on the writing portion of the test. There is the attitude among them that the writing portion does not matter, so why bother!

[metmom]

I’ve heard the same thing from my kids.