Can a good conservative be an atheist ? (vanity for intresting discussion: wife)

[Mariner]

"We conservatives welcome all kinds that believe in limited government, are against abortion and are against gay marriage."

So now you speak for "Conservatives"?

Conservatism is a political philosophy, exclusively.

To suggest that all conservatives are against gay marriage, is not accurate. Some of us don't give a sh!t either way.

Try speaking for yourself.

[FredZarguna]

Beck has exaggerated the faith of some of the founders on his show. It is debatable bordering on dishonest to portray Jefferson as a Christian; he certainly was not one in the conventional sense. Beck made a big deal of the fact that Jefferson had his own version of the New Testament; he failed to mention that Jefferson thought his version -- with many omissions of canonical scripture -- was the only authentic one.

Franklin believed very much in God but was no Christian, he was frequently derisive of Christianity, and though he had some mellower things to say about Jesus late in his life, he never accepted Jesus' divinity, and found Christianity "unintelligible."

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity. [James Madison, Letter to F.L. Schaeffer, Dec 3, 1821]"

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State." James Madison, 1819.

Even those founders who were men of faith believed in the separation of church and state. It is a lie that the phrase "separation of church and state" was not part of their common discourse." It was. It is true that for many conservatives, conservatism has a religious basis, but, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to produce sound conservative principles, reasoning, or outcomes.

There are lots of us like your wife.

[mlocher]

Some of us don't give a sh!t either way.

Not being able to identify your principles is no way to go through life, son.

[eyedigress]

Try to have a meaning of life talk. If their is no reason then we really don’t exist. It is a powerful struggle to escape Satan’s grasp.

[Mariner]

"If you don’t believe in God, then you don’t believe that God is the granter of our rights and therefore, you must believe that men grant them. And if men grant them, what’s to prevent them taking them away at some point."

Non-sequitor.

What about those of us who believe we can define what our rights ought to be, within the context of our own moral judgments...and are willing to kill those who try to take them away if their transgressions are sufficiently egregious?

NOBODY grants me my rights except me.

[Man With A Gun]

As to your comment re: to an atheist, God didn’t give rights, hence men gave rights and therefore can take them away... you left out another alternative, the one I subscribe to (as an atheist).

I believe that my rights are claimed by myself, and for myself. No one can take them away from me without a fight.

Hope this helps. :thumbsup:

:)

Conservative atheist “all the way”

[eyedigress]

The Founders of this Nation recognized the rights that government had no bearing on. Do you proclaim you deny that, and that government shall never impose their own set of rights to you?

[chris37]

Yes, that is what happened.

But you see, it is unique to me and my experiences with religion throughout my life. I have always had trouble with authority, and as a child I went to a jesuit high school.

Didn’t work out so well, I was an ass at the time, ended up becoming an atheist and such. Eventually though, I started to find my way back to God as well as church.

Ended up going to an episcopalian church where this reverend was. He was a married man, and he did much to renew my faith I suppose.

He was also the former disciplinarian for a school for troubled boys. Then one day, as I entered the church, he tried to kiss me straight on my lips. I thought I had misinterpreted what happened, didn’t see it right or something. Went back to church about a month later, and he blew kisses at me loudly in front of a number of people.

That was the last time I went to church. Actions have consequences. As far as I can tell from this and a couple of other experiences, it seems to me that the clergy is full of perverts, and there is nothing for me there.

I worship and love The Lord in my own heart and mind. I don’t need anyone at all to help me do that.

[Mariner]

"Not being able to identify your principles is no way to go through life, son. "

I can clearly identify my principles, without any external input.

That I DON'T CARE about gay marriage, or whatever the hell anyone wants to call it, does not mean I am without principle.

I resent your unfounded accusation and I hope, and will work to ensure, those who think like you are never in power over me.

[so_real]

I believe that my rights are claimed by myself, and for myself. No one can take them away from me without a fight.

Hmmm ... as such, in a world filled with none but atheists with no one held to the authority of a higher power, the only one you can trust to respect and defend your rights, then, is ... yourself?

[Goldsborough]

But can't a person be a conservative, pro life and atheist ? and still love their country just as much as I do ? ... How many out there are like my wife ?

It is interesting, to say the least, that you think your wife could be a demographic of one.

I am a conservative, albeit with some libertarian leanings, love my country, am a veteran of the US Navy, believe abortion is another word for murder, and am a small "a" atheist. That is to say, I am not out there trying to convert anyone to Celebrity Atheism, it's just that I have seen some of the worst humanity has to offer its fellows, both as a sailor and as a deputy in law enforcement, and if there is a God, He is not the mover and shaker He was in the Old Testament, so Nietzsche was right. God is dead, and what Nietzsche feared most has come to pass--nothing compelling to serve to bolster human morality ever replaced Him. The Supermen who arrived had to be killed by random Communist soldiers and Allied Western Forces. The hippie boomers and their worship of the pill were the wake.

I find the conservative schism between Mormons and mainline Christians a much more dynamic problem here than that posed by the few atheist conservatives who dare to be completely different in our corner of the Big Tent.

When one boils it right down, Mormons and other Christians are really arguing about whose man made tales have more of the "ring of truth" about them. It's totally silly. I harbor no illusions that we are all anything more than allies of convenience against the forces of true evil, a.k.a. liberals and leftists, but that will have to be enough.

[terycarl]

I don’t believe in religion either.

Mostly because of a priest who tried to kiss me.

I absolutely believe in The Lord, though you won’t ever find me in a church

I can only assume that you are kidding.....a priest is a man, an impeerfect being....you do not condemn a religon because one of its members offended you....if you absolutely believe in the lord, then do what He told you to do, join and participate in the church that He founded.....the CATHOLIC church....none other, only Catholicism is the way of the cross

[mlocher]

I resent your unfounded accusation and I hope, and will work to ensure, those who think like you are never in power over me.

I would never want power over someone who has to resort to profanity. I also would not want power over someone has trouble thinking through issues and then gets very frustrated and angry when their shortcoming is pointed out to them.

[eyedigress]

Atheism is a cow mentality. I don’t believe you subscribe to that. A personal relationship with our Creator is the way.

[ansel12]

To suggest that all conservatives are against gay marriage, is not accurate. Some of us don't give a sh!t either way.

He is correct, no conservative can go for pretending that a couple of guys can "marry".

That is why FR is openly against the "gay" agenda.

[Mariner]

"Do you proclaim you deny that, and tha government shall never impose their own set of rights to you?"

Why do I need to reference a god to claim what is rightfully mine?

You can assign your rights as god-given if you choose.

I proclaim my rights as self-defined. I'll protect them too.

And if some well-meaning religious person tries to take them away...I'll shoot him right between the eyes just like I would a Bhuddist, or Moslem or agnostic etc.

And yes, I'd spend a few minutes wondering if I could have found a peaceful way to reconcile...then move on.

[eyedigress]

I proclaim my rights as self-defined. I'll protect them too.

Please share your self-defined rights.

[babygene]

“If you don’t believe in God, then you don’t believe that God is the granter of our rights and therefore, you must believe that men grant them.”

That’s a stretch... No, worse than that, it’s short sighted.

[Mariner]

“Please share your self-defined rights.”To do whatever I damn well please as long as I don’t cause direct harm to another person...except in self-defense.