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Can a good conservative be an atheist ? (vanity for intresting discussion: wife)

Posted on 04/29/2010 8:58:35 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative

Let me say first of all that I am a Christian with a strong faith in God. I grew up going to church with my grandpa. I accepted Jesus Christ into my life at a young age.

My wife was raised in a strict christian home. But I think that worked against her in some ways. I think certain people in her family turned her off on religion at points along the way. She is now an atheist. She is a great mom to our 16 month old twins. She is an awesome wife. I love her so much and I will never let it destroy our marriage. So I have been very open and tolerant of her views while praying for her like crazy at the same time.

She has been mostly apolitical and I guess she has been more intrested in recent months watching Fox News with me and listening to the radio. She is very much against abortion. She knows that Obama is a disaster for this country.

It came up in another thread. We have been watching Glenn Beck. and my wife likes him at times. But he really loses her when he goes off into a deep religious discussion. Here I am trying to get her to see and understand things that are going on, and religion comes up, and she sort of tunes out and changes the subject.

That got me thinking. I know this country was founded by men of faith. I know many of us conservatives are religious. But can't a person be a conservative, pro life and atheist ? and still love their country just as much as I do ? ... How many out there are like my wife ?

I tend to think so for sure. But at the same time. I don't want to remove our religious traditions either. They are very important. Our country needs them now more than ever. But I think people like my wife are important to our cause as well. Men and women in their 20s, not religious, but conservative on many issues and they don't even label or know they are conservative. So I guess the problem is.. We can't slip into a politically correct echo chamber, but at the same time we must carefully equate our christian traditions with religious freedom for all. Our rights come from God. and that includes the right not to be religious of course.

what do you say ?


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: scientism
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1 posted on 04/29/2010 8:58:35 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

All I can say is SE Cupp is!!!!!


2 posted on 04/29/2010 9:00:20 PM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Of course...


3 posted on 04/29/2010 9:00:58 PM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: tallyhoe

S.E. Cupp is an atheist ? I didn’t know that..


4 posted on 04/29/2010 9:01:15 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Yes. In several ways.

Although I am not an atheist, I am fully accepting of atheism in the conservative movement. One can be atheist and still believe in Judeo-Christian principles - or - simply believe in small government.

5 posted on 04/29/2010 9:02:24 PM PDT by RockinRight (The last 15 months have been a sh*tty deal for America.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Why not ???


6 posted on 04/29/2010 9:03:20 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Mark for later reading..


7 posted on 04/29/2010 9:03:26 PM PDT by GSP.FAN (Is Eaker going swishy?)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I have a little crush on S.E. Cupp. She’s damn hot, kind of a cross between Ann Coulter, and that old VJ Kennedy who was on MTV in the late 80s. Slightly nerdy and bookish, intellectual, great hair and cute face.


8 posted on 04/29/2010 9:04:31 PM PDT by RockinRight (The last 15 months have been a sh*tty deal for America.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Yes


9 posted on 04/29/2010 9:05:16 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I do not consider myself an atheist, because I feel that atheism is a form of religion or anti-religion.

I’m not anti-religious at all. have no problem with people taking part in religious activities.

But personally I am somewhere between hard agnostic to nonbeliever.

And yes I am very conservative to libertarian in my political views.


10 posted on 04/29/2010 9:06:20 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
I think there is a lack of guiding principle without Christ. I also tend to think our nations problems are spiritually rooted.
But there is no reason to alienate those who are not Christians. As long as we don't change who we are to accommodate them.
11 posted on 04/29/2010 9:07:14 PM PDT by Clump (the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
I'm not religious at all, but I'm not an atheist either.

I am strongly conservative mostly because of political beliefs, but partial birth abortion is a real heart breaker for me!

12 posted on 04/29/2010 9:07:20 PM PDT by Randy Larsen ( BTW, If I offend you! Please let me know, I may want to offend you again!(FR #1690))
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I don’t believe in religion either.

Mostly because of a priest who tried to kiss me.

I absolutely believe in The Lord, though you won’t ever find me in a church.


13 posted on 04/29/2010 9:07:53 PM PDT by chris37
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

An atheist believes our spirit dies with our body, a Christian does not.


14 posted on 04/29/2010 9:09:22 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

An intelligent, intellectually honest person will gravitate towards a conservative, judeo-christian view of morality if only because historically, that’s what works.

I’m sorry for your wife’s apparent lack of faith, but give her time; if the seed’s planted deep enough, eventually it will blossom.


15 posted on 04/29/2010 9:10:24 PM PDT by LongElegantLegs ( I have nothing better to do than sit around all night watching a lunatic not turn into a werewolf.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

There is no such thing as a Atheist on a crashing Airplane.

You can quote me on this.


16 posted on 04/29/2010 9:10:58 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (If Hitler used a TelePrompter, we would all be speaking German...)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
We conservatives welcome all kinds that believe in limited government, are against abortion and are against gay marriage. These principles are all derived from the Bible, but it matters not where any conservative derives them, as long as they have them.

Of more concern is understanding your wife's lack of religious belief. I have several atheists in my extended family. They all have a need to believe in something bigger than themselves, and choose to either put their belief in big gov't or the Earth. They were never baptized and are very tough nuts to crack. Your wife, however, had a religious background and perhaps she is "wandering" for whatever reason.

17 posted on 04/29/2010 9:11:35 PM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: chris37

You’ve thrown out fellowship with other Christians in church because of one bad person? Not judging, just kind of perplexed....


18 posted on 04/29/2010 9:13:21 PM PDT by My hearts in London - Everett (So the writer who breeds more words than he needs, is making a chore for the reader who reads.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
A "conservative" in the American political context is someone who wants to conserve the principles this free republic was founded upon.

In our nation's charter, the Declaration of Independence, what those principles are are laid out quite clearly. Our form of government and our liberty are premised on the self-evident truth that all men are CREATED equal, ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable rights, and that the raison d'être of human government is the protection of those rights.

How can someone who denies what the Founders called "self-evident," or "as plain as the nose on your face," conserve what they can't see and that they deny?

How can someone conserve something they don't even understand?

19 posted on 04/29/2010 9:13:39 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (I don't believe in athiests.)
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To: RockinRight

She is definitely my favorite gal on Fox. I especially love her on Red Eye, particularly when she sits in the “gratuitous leg shot” chair. I download every clip of hers I can find on YouTube.


20 posted on 04/29/2010 9:14:10 PM PDT by hout8475
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I know you’re a Christian, but it sounds like you were not aware of God’s admonishment that we not be “yoked” with unbelievers: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+6%3A14&version=NIV (when I got married, I was Catholic and had no knowledge of Scripture, so had no idea this concept even existed!).

Anyway, now that you’re married, just continue to pray for her salvation. I, too, hope that Glenn can lead people to the Lord. I often watch his program with my former husband (an agnostic), and since he agrees with virtually everything Glenn says, I hope that he will go further and explore the Christian concepts that Glenn mentions that are so important to our nation’s heritage.

I will keep you and your wife in my prayers!


21 posted on 04/29/2010 9:14:18 PM PDT by Joann37
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To: Kickass Conservative

There is no such thing as AN Atheist on a crashing Airplane.

Fixed it. Darn that spell check!


22 posted on 04/29/2010 9:14:47 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (If Hitler used a TelePrompter, we would all be speaking German...)
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To: hout8475

I told my wife that S.E. is on my “laminated list” - which is a reference from “Friends” if you ever watched that show.


23 posted on 04/29/2010 9:15:41 PM PDT by RockinRight (The last 15 months have been a sh*tty deal for America.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Yes.


24 posted on 04/29/2010 9:16:13 PM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: EternalVigilance

Exactly. Sounds like alot of wool is in play here.


25 posted on 04/29/2010 9:16:19 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I get hung up on atheism as it relates to this phrase in the Declaration:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

If you don’t believe in God, then you don’t believe that God is the granter of our rights and therefore, you must believe that men grant them. And if men grant them, what’s to prevent them taking them away at some point.

God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He will never change and he will never take back the Rights he gives us.

Sure, atheists can have many views which are in line with conservatism, but in my opinion, one of the cornerstones of conservatism is that God is the granter of the unalienable Rights referred to in the Declaration. The Founding Fathers included that phrase because they wanted to make it clear that God is the author of our Rights and they are not subject to the whims and fancies of man.

That being said, if she votes the right way, no problem. Keep praying.


26 posted on 04/29/2010 9:17:00 PM PDT by randita (Visit keyhouseraces.com for a list of vulnerable DEM and must hold GOP House seats.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Yes.


27 posted on 04/29/2010 9:17:35 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (Obama promised a gold mine, but will give us the shaft.)
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To: eyedigress

My current tagline sure does fit on this thread...


28 posted on 04/29/2010 9:19:29 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (I don't believe in athiests.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

This amounts to a discussion as to whether an improbability is a possibility. Don't we already know the answer is "yes, and no"? (waxing philosophical)


29 posted on 04/29/2010 9:20:07 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
See a lot of short answers on this thread that basically say, “Yes.” Agreed. But there is a more important issue.

God gave us free will. That is the entire point about Adam and Eve's failing in the Garden and people's failings throughout the Bible. For without free will, there cannot be love of others, let alone love of God. And what is Hell (not used as a curse word) but God allowing us to choose to live eternally devoid of His presence?

I have been down a path at least somewhat similar to what your wife has partially traveled. Have gone from Catholic to Protestant to deist to some very strange places to atheist and finally back to God as a Christian who believes in Him, His Son, and the Word (albeit imperfectly so and nominally in a Catholic form).

Pray for her. It really does matter. Be patient. The bigger issue is her soul. Stick with it. I pray she will come around. But it must be her choice.

It's fairly apparent you already know that, but I thought it might help to hear (read) it from someone else.

30 posted on 04/29/2010 9:20:32 PM PDT by piytar (Ammo is hard to find! Bought some lately? Please share where at www.ammo-finder.com)
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To: randita

Good Post. An atheist denies their God given rights. They only subscribe to the government with which they live. No repercussion, no judgment, no reason for being.


31 posted on 04/29/2010 9:22:02 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Everyone lives by a moral code. By itself that’s not anything to brag about, as everyone does. Everyone also tends to believe they are better than they actually are, relatively speaking.

If you’re not trying to live a moral code based on objective standards set by God, you only have to live up to whatever standards you decide are right. Of course some people have higher standards than others, but in the end if there’s no reason outside of yourself to act in certain ways, however you’re living is based on what you want to do or not do, and your own internal rationalizations (sound or not).

Can she be a ‘good’ mom? Yes. Can she be a ‘good’ person? As far as society is concerned, yes. Can she be a ‘good’ person in God’s eyes? On her own, no. She can be a moral person (all people are, their codes vary), she may even have high moral and ethical standards, but that will not save her. None of our good deeds save us.

God will judge her however in perfect fairness and justice, as He will everyone.


32 posted on 04/29/2010 9:23:23 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

People who profess any religion, or none, can be good conservatives in principle, although there are some interesting subtleties to be considered.

In one sense, atheism, in its unsentimental rejection of that which lacks empirical evidence, and its embrace of the reality of nature, is a good template for the rejection of much of fuzzy-headed bleeding-heart liberalism which is (it should be acknowledged) a secularization of a particular strain of 19th/20th century Christian charitable impulse.

In another sense, though, atheism, at least its more evangelical forms, is hard to square with good Burkeanism — a good Burkean is loathe to tear down institutions (such as churches) which have been bulwarks of stability and inculcation of socially-useful values and practices for many generations.


33 posted on 04/29/2010 9:23:45 PM PDT by only1percent
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To: EternalVigilance

It’s a fishing expo. Kinda stupid but I did think a response was afforded.


34 posted on 04/29/2010 9:23:56 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

We have some flaky, flamboyant atheists here that are merely interested in economics, but we have at least a couple of atheists that seem truly, and thoroughly conservative, that are quiet about it and that don’t seem very interested in mentioning it, the only way you learn it, is when it comes up in a dispassionate way.


35 posted on 04/29/2010 9:24:35 PM PDT by ansel12 (Romney-"I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there")
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To: eyedigress

You betcha.


36 posted on 04/29/2010 9:24:47 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (I don't believe in athiests.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Politics and religion are not necessarily linked.

It's like asking if a Bhuddist can be a conservative...

37 posted on 04/29/2010 9:26:18 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: Joann37

She was a Christian when we got married almost three years ago. We went to church together. She had doubts that she didn’t talk about very much because she was afraid to upset people around her. Starting with her parents in the past. And then she knows how important faith is in my life. I think it was a gradual process for her that started a long time ago. And I knew there was something different. But it was still shocking when she first used the word atheist.


38 posted on 04/29/2010 9:28:42 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Your wife is where I was about 10 years ago. I was conservative then, and I am even more conservative now. Just for the record I have an extremely strong faith in God. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

I went down a similar path as your wife. When people would tell me this in the past, “Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior” ... I just thought they were a little on the crazy side, old fashion, but well meaning people. I thought I was so smart and they were just desperate or looking for a meaning in life.

I can tell you now with 100% certainty that God exist. Keep in mind I was where your wife was from about 1981 until 2005. I went to college and lived the wild life, etc.. Oh and btw, I have even a better life now. I still have a lot of fun and enjoy reading and talking to God.

At any rate I hope this helps you out.

39 posted on 04/29/2010 9:29:08 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

I would also add that it is one thing to ‘get tired of’ organized religion. It is another thing to not believe in God anymore. Make certain which one it is. If it is the former, encourage her to reconnect with God through the Bible at her own pace, read a little bit each day.

The way you describe her upbringing makes me think the ‘religious’ aspect of things turned her off, not necessarily God Himself. If that’s the case there might be some hope for her.


40 posted on 04/29/2010 9:30:19 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: mlocher
"We conservatives welcome all kinds that believe in limited government, are against abortion and are against gay marriage."

So now you speak for "Conservatives"?

Conservatism is a political philosophy, exclusively.

To suggest that all conservatives are against gay marriage, is not accurate. Some of us don't give a sh!t either way.

Try speaking for yourself.

41 posted on 04/29/2010 9:30:34 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
Beck has exaggerated the faith of some of the founders on his show. It is debatable bordering on dishonest to portray Jefferson as a Christian; he certainly was not one in the conventional sense. Beck made a big deal of the fact that Jefferson had his own version of the New Testament; he failed to mention that Jefferson thought his version -- with many omissions of canonical scripture -- was the only authentic one.

Franklin believed very much in God but was no Christian, he was frequently derisive of Christianity, and though he had some mellower things to say about Jesus late in his life, he never accepted Jesus' divinity, and found Christianity "unintelligible."

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity. [James Madison, Letter to F.L. Schaeffer, Dec 3, 1821]"

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State." James Madison, 1819.

Even those founders who were men of faith believed in the separation of church and state. It is a lie that the phrase "separation of church and state" was not part of their common discourse." It was. It is true that for many conservatives, conservatism has a religious basis, but, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to produce sound conservative principles, reasoning, or outcomes.

There are lots of us like your wife.

42 posted on 04/29/2010 9:31:47 PM PDT by FredZarguna ("I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.")
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To: Mariner
Some of us don't give a sh!t either way.

Not being able to identify your principles is no way to go through life, son.

43 posted on 04/29/2010 9:33:52 PM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Try to have a meaning of life talk. If their is no reason then we really don’t exist. It is a powerful struggle to escape Satan’s grasp.


44 posted on 04/29/2010 9:34:50 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: randita
"If you don’t believe in God, then you don’t believe that God is the granter of our rights and therefore, you must believe that men grant them. And if men grant them, what’s to prevent them taking them away at some point."

Non-sequitor.

What about those of us who believe we can define what our rights ought to be, within the context of our own moral judgments...and are willing to kill those who try to take them away if their transgressions are sufficiently egregious?

NOBODY grants me my rights except me.

45 posted on 04/29/2010 9:35:06 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: randita

As to your comment re: to an atheist, God didn’t give rights, hence men gave rights and therefore can take them away... you left out another alternative, the one I subscribe to (as an atheist).

I believe that my rights are claimed by myself, and for myself. No one can take them away from me without a fight.

Hope this helps. :thumbsup:

:)

Conservative atheist “all the way”


46 posted on 04/29/2010 9:36:28 PM PDT by Man With A Gun
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To: Mariner

The Founders of this Nation recognized the rights that government had no bearing on. Do you proclaim you deny that, and that government shall never impose their own set of rights to you?


47 posted on 04/29/2010 9:41:33 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: My hearts in London - Everett

Yes, that is what happened.

But you see, it is unique to me and my experiences with religion throughout my life. I have always had trouble with authority, and as a child I went to a jesuit high school.

Didn’t work out so well, I was an ass at the time, ended up becoming an atheist and such. Eventually though, I started to find my way back to God as well as church.

Ended up going to an episcopalian church where this reverend was. He was a married man, and he did much to renew my faith I suppose.

He was also the former disciplinarian for a school for troubled boys. Then one day, as I entered the church, he tried to kiss me straight on my lips. I thought I had misinterpreted what happened, didn’t see it right or something. Went back to church about a month later, and he blew kisses at me loudly in front of a number of people.

That was the last time I went to church. Actions have consequences. As far as I can tell from this and a couple of other experiences, it seems to me that the clergy is full of perverts, and there is nothing for me there.

I worship and love The Lord in my own heart and mind. I don’t need anyone at all to help me do that.


48 posted on 04/29/2010 9:43:42 PM PDT by chris37
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To: mlocher
"Not being able to identify your principles is no way to go through life, son. "

I can clearly identify my principles, without any external input.

That I DON'T CARE about gay marriage, or whatever the hell anyone wants to call it, does not mean I am without principle.

I resent your unfounded accusation and I hope, and will work to ensure, those who think like you are never in power over me.

49 posted on 04/29/2010 9:43:47 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: Man With A Gun

I believe that my rights are claimed by myself, and for myself. No one can take them away from me without a fight.

Hmmm ... as such, in a world filled with none but atheists with no one held to the authority of a higher power, the only one you can trust to respect and defend your rights, then, is ... yourself?


50 posted on 04/29/2010 9:44:24 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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