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Vanity - Convert ~1967 Louisiana Coordinates to WGS84
me ^ | today | thackney

Posted on 07/03/2010 1:07:01 PM PDT by thackney

I have coordinates from a Sabine River Authority survey map created around 1967.

I am trying to get the coordinates to modern GPS coordinates to use in Google Earth or similar programs.

I thought the coordinate system was NAD27 but my longitude is deemed invalid by the conversion programs I have tried.

I have spent a couple hours searching via the internet. I thought at this point I would turn to our FReeper knowledge bank.

The Latitude is listed as: N.88°54'23.4"W. The Longitude is listed as: N.00°21'52.7"E.

The letter designation do not make sense to me, but with the multidude of other points shown, I know they are not a simple typo.

I know from Google Earth this point is approximately: Lat: 31.44794° Lon: -93.63124°

I have several points along a conveluted path that I would like to plot using GPS.

If someone could point me to a conversion equation or web site, I would appreciate the help.

Thanks! thackney


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: nad27; wgs84
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I've linked to one of the many sites I've been viewing.

But I don't know enough about the topic to understand how to use what it is describing.

1 posted on 07/03/2010 1:07:07 PM PDT by thackney
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To: thackney

Your map should have the correct coordinates system that was used for the map printed on it. Do you have the book for the GPS, that can help.


2 posted on 07/03/2010 1:15:51 PM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: thackney; trooprally
Have you been here?
Have you tried CORPSCON? A bit of a tutorial here.

I don't think CORPSCON does WGS84 directly, but you can use it for approximation or a step in-between.

3 posted on 07/03/2010 1:19:51 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: thackney

Or could be polar-type intersections. I’m guessing they are specific to the Authority.


4 posted on 07/03/2010 1:22:38 PM PDT by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: thackney

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=31.447971,-93.631226&num=1&sll=31.448046,-93.631239&sspn=0.000407,0.002146&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=31.448124,-93.63089&spn=0.000407,0.002146&z=19&iwloc=A


5 posted on 07/03/2010 1:27:05 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( - Eccl. 10:18 -)
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To: thackney
The Latitude is listed as: N.88°54'23.4"W. The Longitude is listed as: N.00°21'52.7"E.

These values are not lat and long. These are bearings used by surveyors.

N.88°54'23.4"W means start an N., then rotate W. (counterclockwise) 88°54'23.4".

N.00°21'52.7"E means start an N., then rotate E. (clockwise) 00°21'52.7".

Surveyors use these types of bearings instead of 360 degrees. All bearings are <= 90 degrees. They allow easy conversion of reverse bearings because they are the same number. For example, N45W is the reverse bearing of S45E.

6 posted on 07/03/2010 1:42:49 PM PDT by matt1234 (The only crisis 0bama can manage is one he intentionally created.)
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To: matt1234

oops, “start an” should be “start at”


7 posted on 07/03/2010 1:45:15 PM PDT by matt1234 (The only crisis 0bama can manage is one he intentionally created.)
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To: matt1234

Great explanation. I am not a surveyor so, at first, I was thinking that spot is up near the North Pole!

A clear, no frills answer. Thanks.


8 posted on 07/03/2010 1:48:24 PM PDT by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: thackney

You can get GPS coordinates from google maps, but this might be easier.

http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html


9 posted on 07/03/2010 1:54:28 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( - Eccl. 10:18 -)
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To: matt1234

Now that he knows those are bearings he needs to know the start point and the length of each bearing, right?


10 posted on 07/03/2010 2:02:57 PM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Aim small, miss small.)
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To: thackney

One of those numbers should be Latitude, and one should be Longitude. There should only be ONE letter in each. N/S in Latitude, E/W in Longitude. Try that second number with a W in front of it instead of an N, and drop the W from the end of the first number. Those may be why you’re having trouble.


11 posted on 07/03/2010 2:10:44 PM PDT by Old Student
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To: matt1234

Thank you, that makes sense.

The two values were Northern and Eastern boundaries of a property. I was trying to use the combination to specify a point to GPS, but I see that isn’t the case.

I also have some Nearby X,Y coordinates from whatever system was used as a reference. I will have to figure out what they represent to learn more.


12 posted on 07/03/2010 2:15:13 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Gondring

I’ve been going through that site for a while, but not having enough information to make it work.

I now understand (see above post) that I was intersecting two bearings, they were not a coordinate system.

I have another nearby coordinates of
X=1,644,780.863
Y=287,385.764

I will have to learn what that references. I now understand I have bearings and distances to get from that starting point, to the points I’m trying to define. I will just have to do some more research.

Sadly, the land office with this data is about 4 hours one way from my home. Another friday off work to look forward to driving.

Thanks for the help.


13 posted on 07/03/2010 2:20:48 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: SC Swamp Fox
Now that he knows those are bearings he needs to know the start point and the length of each bearing, right?

That's basically correct, but it's not as straightforward as it sounds. I started to write and explanation, but it's very involved. He might want to consult a surveyor or someone familiar with surveying principles.

14 posted on 07/03/2010 2:28:58 PM PDT by matt1234 (The only crisis 0bama can manage is one he intentionally created.)
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To: matt1234
I am an engineer. I'm not a surveyor, but the math and geometry are no big deal, just tedious.

My problem is the starting point.

The ultimate goal is to turn the multitude of points I have into GPS coordinates to reasonably locate on both Google Earth as well as physically with a GPS.

I am negotiating a land trade. Ultimately we will use a surveyor when we reach an agreement. While we are in the negotiating phase I'm trying to consider some possibilities while calculating some acreage options of very convoluted pieces.

15 posted on 07/03/2010 2:37:36 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
I now understand (see above post) that I was intersecting two bearings, they were not a coordinate system.

To identify the coordinate system, look for something on the map labelled "Meridian." If there is a legal description, it might name the meridian. In legal descriptions, meridians are sometimes abbreviated, such as "W.M." for Willamette Meridian (covering OR and WA). If the land is in Louisiana, there's a good chance your map uses the Louisiana Meridian. If you can identify the meridian, you should be able to convert your X,Y coordinates to GPS coordinates.

16 posted on 07/03/2010 2:43:44 PM PDT by matt1234 (The only crisis 0bama can manage is one he intentionally created.)
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To: matt1234

It is west of the Mississippi River so it would be the Louisiana Meridian.

I have a set of X,Y coordinates nearby on my map. Where do I go to find the GPS of that coordinate?

From there I can follow the distances and bearings to get where I need to be.


17 posted on 07/03/2010 2:51:48 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: matt1234

Is the Meridian coordinates given in feet?

As long as I now the initial point of the system, can I use the coordinates as measurement in feet to the location?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System


18 posted on 07/03/2010 3:10:31 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
Where do I go to find the GPS of that coordinate?

Find a program or website that converts Louisiana Meridian coordinates to GPS coordinates. Another avenue to explore is the county website. Some county websites have extensive mapping capabilities that meet or exceed Google Earth standards.

From there I can follow the distances and bearings to get where I need to be.

You might need to rotate bearings on the map first. Bearings on the map may not agree with bearings in the coordinate system. First, I would do a check between two X,Y coordinates. Ideally, find a line on the map that has two X,Y coordinates on it. Start with one X,Y coordinate and assume the second is unknown. Calculate the second X,Y coordinate using the bearing and length on the line. If your result matches the second X,Y coordinate value on the map, the rotations agree. If not, you'll have to rotate the bearings on the map.

19 posted on 07/03/2010 3:15:38 PM PDT by matt1234 (The only crisis 0bama can manage is one he intentionally created.)
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To: matt1234

I understand. Thanks for the help.

Ultimately I’ll be back in the same office I made the copies from yesterday. But I suspect I won’t be able to get back until August.

If I find a conversion system, I’ll get to play with it until then.

Your explanation that I was using bearings and not coordinates made a lot of my map suddenly make sense.

In hindsight, it was rather foolish to expect that property lines exactly lined up with North-South and East-West directions.


20 posted on 07/03/2010 3:19:54 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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