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Just 10% of labor pool in India and China, can absorb every US job... then what?
(please wake up America, vanity)

Posted on 07/11/2010 9:58:05 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network

Can we please do something, as conservatives and libertarians - as patriots - to stop America's self destruction?

This is not some theoretical debate. Why is this very real danger, being so stubbornly ignored?


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: jobs; sellout; trade
I honestly don't get it.

Conservatives are the traditional intelligent, eyes wide open geopolitical strategic realists who recognize such unpleasant conceptual realities as falling dominoes, and kilotons. It's always been so. Our side has always been the ones, who "get it". And who protect our nation.

Why now seemingly, are so many bright and patriotic conservatives, so willfully blind to the danger America is facing - right now - with the destruction of our industry and the loss of our technological capabilities?

The damage could not be more complete, if wave after wave of enemy heavy bombers had carpet-bombed America's heartland into oblivion, demolishing one after another in waves - our arms factories and economic targets.

The result is (exactly) the same:

We are losing our nation's ability to be strong.

1 posted on 07/11/2010 9:58:09 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Blame Silicon Valley moguls.


2 posted on 07/11/2010 10:04:19 AM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: Steelfish

Never mind who to blame.

What do we do about it? It’s not going to go away.

If we continue on this path, WE will go away.


3 posted on 07/11/2010 10:07:02 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR1fDL7x1Sg)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

If all of our manufacturing goes overseas, what could stop all the countries in unison from telling us one day to p!$$ off ? No more goods to buy especially since we purposely decimated our own industries !

I use to work for one of the major DoD companies and even they are sending work to India !

With manufacturing gone, the means for someone who doesn’t have a college education to succeed is taken away ! My dad remarked (who is 76 years old) that the job market has been declining since the 1960’s. A gentleman that cleaned my parents house also remarked that back in the 1950’s, it was easy to find a decent paying job. He mentioned that you get fed up with one employer, you quit and then hit the streets the next day and come home with several offers of employment. The current company I am working for, it took three months from first interview to signing the paperwork and starting.

> We are losing our nation’s ability to be strong.


4 posted on 07/11/2010 10:08:47 AM PDT by CORedneck
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Just 10% of labor pool in India and China, can absorb every US job... then what?

That fails to take into account the dynamic nature of economies.

There aren't a fixed number of jobs in world and when they are filled...those not working are doomed to idleness.

When people work, they create jobs because they now have income to spend and needs to be met.

And if this is an argument against free trade...do you have any idea how much the goods sold in America would cost if they were all produced only by Americans using resources only reaped from American lands (you and I wouldn't be able to afford them).

So back to your original question, "then what" happens after the labor in India and China are working. The answer...then they want to buy things.

And if America is smart (and with the exception of Obama and his followers...it is), we will meet those needs and in doing so create new industries.

5 posted on 07/11/2010 10:14:25 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Or maybe they will buy up all the consumer goods in world and there will be no flat screens to watch the NFL this fall. Oh when are we going to wake up ......

to the fact that people are both producers and consumers. Thus when someone is earning an income this allows them to also purchasing goods from others allowing others to earn an income. That is when are some of us going to learn there is not a finite number of jobs to be distributed among an ever growing populations.


6 posted on 07/11/2010 10:18:32 AM PDT by JLS (Democrats: People who won't even let you enjoy an unseasonably warm winter day.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Because Lawyers run the country it will never get better.


7 posted on 07/11/2010 10:18:46 AM PDT by Cheetahcat (Zero the Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies

“So back to your original question, “then what” happens after the labor in India and China are working. The answer...then they want to buy things.”

-

What good will that do us?

We won’t have factories left, to sell them anything.

Seriously. And besides, foreign markets aren’t open to us even now, when we actually have leverage.

When we have no leverage left - we will end up like powerless people end up, around the world and throughout human history.

It is folly, to pretend the rest of the world shares our believe in fairness and will treat us, the way we treat the rest of the world.

They won’t. We will pay a terrible price, to learn that too late.


8 posted on 07/11/2010 10:22:13 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR1fDL7x1Sg)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I am retired, they can not take my job.


9 posted on 07/11/2010 10:28:26 AM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
We won’t have factories left, to sell them anything.

We have plenty of great factories (for example Ground broken on $100M Moses Lake plant announced just last week).

The problem with American manufacturing is unions and government.

BTW, plants in the future will not be labor intensive but will rely heavily on robotic, energy, and government stability...and customer demand of course.

The biggest problem business in America faces right now is Obama. If we can get rid of him, there will be some great leaps forward.

The vast labor resources of China and India don't mean much if they can't turn them into a powerful technologically oriented force...and that won't be easy.

The days of manual labor being a threat are gone. Even modern farming is now automated.

In the future (now present), we will all be geeks.

10 posted on 07/11/2010 10:34:09 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I can’t believe this networked cringing negativity!! :-) I am Indian and I look at what you are saying and essentially it is “Daddy, Mummy!! I think I put my finger in a joint and it hurts!! GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!”. The west went into Asia (and not for the first time either), expecting that it was more productive, had better ideas and would essentially take over the markets of the east. This was true but the east caught on, understood how things work and since it is not shackled by colonial masters that prevent it from doing what it needs to get productive, it was essentially able to do so. Today the likes of India and China are able to compete with the West on the low and medium value production and services.

I cannot believe that as an American, you, having the power of your democratic vote, go on to vote for idiots that make policies that result in your country losing productivity either through taxes (like the democrats) or through completely selling out to large businesses like some of the previous republican policies did. Don’t get me wrong, I am still pro-republican and pro American - but DON’T WHINE!! Go OUT AND VOTE!! And if the majority does n’t agree with you, leave and go some place else that does.

I don’t know how old you are but if you have a 20 something liberal arts majoring kid at home or in your community, IT IS YOUR GENERATION THAT FAILED AMERICA!

I may get banned for this, but when I see people from a country that I grew up idealizing now talk like the way you did, I ask myself if the fighting spirit that symbolized the Ayn Rand’s of the past has moved to the developing world for good!!

There are things that I don’t like about China but I cannot say that the people there sit on their a$$es and whine like you just have.


11 posted on 07/11/2010 10:34:17 AM PDT by MimirsWell (Scipio Pakistanus)
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To: mountainlion

Well since I work near where I live, it will be a hell of a comute for em.


12 posted on 07/11/2010 10:37:08 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: MimirsWell

To the contrary.

I am saying we should stop the kid glove treatment of our so-called “partners” who are in it just for themselves.

Buy our stuff, or we don’t buy yours.

We’ve been mamby-pambies long enough.


13 posted on 07/11/2010 10:38:52 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR1fDL7x1Sg)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Every President since Kennedy, and some before, (except Perot) was in favor of a global economy...Along with that comes the automatic elimination of American sovereignty...

And we vote for these derelicts...

How many FReepers would you guess are going to vote for the next (so called conservative) Globalist candidate for President???

14 posted on 07/11/2010 10:39:14 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: MimirsWell

“There are things that I don’t like about China but I cannot say that the people there sit on their a$$es and whine like you just have”

Whining is a luxury of the spoiled. When China advances to the point of spoiled citizenry they too will whine...I have read of some Chinese whining already after our economy went sour, causing their orders and shipments to stop. Some factories there have shut down.


15 posted on 07/11/2010 10:43:57 AM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies; Cringing Negativism Network
That fails to take into account the dynamic nature of economies.

Exactly! Let us assume for the sake of argument that every job goes out of USA, and every American is unemployed. This will mean that Americans will no longer be able to afford to import stuff from China and India. At some point, it will be cheaper to hire Americans to manufacture stuff and jobs will come back here. So the scare-scenario is flawed.

Actually, what I state already happened. In 2008, if you went the nearest Walmart and purchased stationery, there was a good chance that it was made in USA. This was due to the high cost of shipping goods from China to USA.

I also agree with SonOfDarkSkies on how high the cost of things manufactured in USA would be. We will be the net losers in this scenario.

Milton Friedman explained these concepts very well in a PBS series in the 1980s.

16 posted on 07/11/2010 10:45:00 AM PDT by JimWayne
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To: SonOfDarkSkies
And if this is an argument against free trade...do you have any idea how much the goods sold in America would cost if they were all produced only by Americans using resources only reaped from American lands (you and I wouldn't be able to afford them).

The cost of labor is the lowest equation in the cost of manufacturing...

You go to JC Penny's and buy a shirt for 20 bucks that costs probably a dime to make in Bangladesh...That 19 dollars and ninety cents goes to the middle man...And we pay it...

Americans can produce the same shirt with the same price tag...Only difference is, the middleman won't get quite so filthy rich...

17 posted on 07/11/2010 10:45:55 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Steelfish

Blame unions before silicon valley.


18 posted on 07/11/2010 10:46:18 AM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: JimWayne

” At some point, it will be cheaper to hire Americans to manufacture stuff and jobs will come back here. “

-

Flawed assumption.

By that point, it will not be Americans with strict profit motives, making the decisions as to where to make things and what to buy.

It will be the very people who are now, busy taking our jobs away from us, strategically.

We will not get a second chance.

This is it.


19 posted on 07/11/2010 10:48:23 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR1fDL7x1Sg)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Sorry to tell you, and I am NOT a negative or pessimistic person, but, we ARE going bye bye.

Look around you. Look up, down, right and left. Now, imagine those images of these 3rd world countries where all this cool architecture is in decay and frozen in time, slowing just wearing out. THAT IS what America will look like in 50 years. We already see it in our roads and bridges, school, and many places, but there is still enough NEW being built, to allow us to pretend it is not happening. But it is.

We do not have enough money to keep the glory days. And we have aborted 50 million tax payers and replaced them with 50 million illegals who do not speak our language, do not share our culture, do not respect our history, and will do to this nation what they did to their own. In Europe, it is the same, only worse, as their population is not being supplanted by Hispanics, but Islamics. Our culture will just fade. Theirs will burn. That’s the good news.

If you can accept it, plan for it, and put your children into places and skill which will allow them to thrive in the new America. If not, you fail twice over. You didn’t stop it, you didn’t deal with it. We’ve missed the boat to stop it. Obama will give them all amnesty before January 2011. In a lame duck session. You cannot then undo that lawfully or peacefully.

The tiny spineless majority of GOP in 2011 will be unwilling or unable to over ride his Vetoes and will be voted back out in 2012 after doing the same nothing that they did following 1994. So, all that is left, it to understand, and plan accordingly, gnashing teeth or weeping or sticking one’s political head in the sand or thinking Sarah Palin can save you is foolish.


20 posted on 07/11/2010 10:50:19 AM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Unless the GOP Senate ruins it all...)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Can we do something, as conservatives and libertarians - as patriots - to stop America’s self destruction?

No, we can’t. We are too small, too few, and America is too big, to complacent, and too stupid. We can probably best invest our energy in “selfishly” attempting to prepare and provide for our own family and friends and set a common-sense example for others.

But stop America’s self destruction? Can’t be done. Like Bolivar said, might as well try to plow the sea.

In a speech entitled “Industrial Management in a Republic,” delivered in the grand ballroom of the Waldorf Astoria at New York during the 250th meeting of the National Conference Board on March 18, 1943, Henning Webb Prentis, Jr., President of the Armstrong Cork Company, had this to say:

“Paradoxically enough, the release of initiative and enterprise made possible by popular self-government ultimately generates disintegrating forces from within. Again and again after freedom has brought opportunity and some degree of plenty, the competent become selfish, luxury-loving and complacent, the incompetent and the unfortunate grow envious and covetous, and all three groups turn aside from the hard road of freedom to worship the Golden Calf of economic security. The historical cycle seems to be: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to apathy; from apathy to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more.”


21 posted on 07/11/2010 10:51:22 AM PDT by flowerplough (Bammy: "People say, yeah, but unemployment's still at 9.6%. Yes, but it's not 12 or 13... or15.")
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To: Iscool
How many FReepers would you guess are going to vote for the next (so called conservative) Globalist candidate for President???

95%! They always have they always will.

22 posted on 07/11/2010 10:52:43 AM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Unless the GOP Senate ruins it all...)
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To: flowerplough

You get it. Good post.


23 posted on 07/11/2010 10:54:01 AM PDT by RachelFaith (2010 is going to be a 100 seat Tsunami - Unless the GOP Senate ruins it all...)
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To: JimWayne
Thanks...here's a brief video (link) about how the price system operates in free markets around the world (in a very complex manner) to produce something as simple as a pencil...

Milton Friedman's short discussion on "The Pencil"

24 posted on 07/11/2010 11:10:39 AM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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To: flowerplough

Henning Webb Prentis wasn’t the first but his words are clear as a bell. Some Scot statesman back in the 1700’s said this same sort of circle of governing progress in his own vernacular related to government type -democracy to oligarchy to dictatorship to monarchy to democracy, with a democracy not lasting more than 200 years. I recall learning almost 50 years ago this was part of the reason the USA was set up as a democratic republic by our founding fathers - to extend beyond the 200 years.


25 posted on 07/11/2010 11:50:21 AM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
We will not get a second chance.

I fear the outside world will bask in the glow of schadenfreude, as we thrash around. This might explain why the 'Rats are getting more vicious, so they can abandon ship with bigger bags of loot.

26 posted on 07/11/2010 12:09:30 PM PDT by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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To: King Moonracer

I’d personally be ashamed if I were unable to be more productive then the clown on the street.

Yeah, global competition is a reality. I don’t see why Americans cannot compete. You either buck up or get passed by. Walling everything off will merely speed things up.


27 posted on 07/11/2010 1:42:44 PM PDT by BenKenobi (I want to hear more about Sam! Samwise the stouthearted!)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies

we will meet those needs and in doing so create new industries.


Card check will move those created industries over-seas...nothing gained. Nothing will improve until the communists are purged from our government.


28 posted on 07/11/2010 2:13:45 PM PDT by Joan Kerrey (here's my checkbook and my car-keys, my credit carThe bigger the government = The smaller the people)
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To: Joan Kerrey
I must have been unclear.

Obama will destroy our future if he is not stopped.

29 posted on 07/11/2010 2:31:52 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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To: SonOfDarkSkies
....do you have any idea how much the goods sold in America would cost if they were all produced only by Americans using resources only reaped from American lands (you and I wouldn't be able to afford them).

OK, I hear this argument sometimes, and my next question is: how did we afford consumer goods back in the days before China manufactured everything, when we were producing our own goods?

30 posted on 07/11/2010 4:24:15 PM PDT by ottbmare (I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.)
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To: ottbmare
Watch this 2+ minute video (VIDEO LINK) and you will begin to understand how this dynamo called economics works.

It's not about national boundaries. This cross boundary movement of products and ideas is ancient. And without it we would all be living in the modern equivalent of the stone age.

Just watch this video and then let me know why you still wonder about our economy.

31 posted on 07/11/2010 4:55:18 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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To: ottbmare
BTW, economics is difficult even for economists to understand...look at the ridiculous advice Larry Summers and other Harvard economists have given Obama.

IMO the best economists are moms and dads who struggle to raise their children and keep a rood overhead...and pay for education.

Economics is best understood from the bottom up...not from the top down!

But even moms and dads need to take a deep breath and think very, very carefully about economic forces at work in their lives before drawing conclusions which might more easily agree with their old fashioned and conventional ideas.

Economics is both simple and miraculous! And very difficult (like a greased pig) to keep a handle on .

;-)

32 posted on 07/11/2010 5:07:40 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies (Does building demolition count as a Muslim engineering achievement?)
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To: ottbmare
how did we afford consumer goods back in the days before China manufactured everything, when we were producing our own goods?

This is a fair question.

The basic answer is "we could afford a lot less." Food was more expensive on a real basis. Clothes, shoes, toys and other basic consuemr goods were VASTLY more expensive -- walk around a Target with a 65-year old one day and ask him or her how many things are priced remarkably similar in nominal dollars to where they would have been in 1980 (1970 in real terms too, but not nominal given the 1970s hyperinflation).

The different nature of the workforce meant that many domestic and household services the middle class can afford now -- weekly heavy cleaning, a lawn mowing service, etc. -- were out of the question. Things that combined the cost of goods and services -- like eating out, going on vacation, etc. -- cost much more, and were accordingly consumed much less. A long distance telephone call could run you $20 or $30 in 2010 dollars.

Some goods and services that appear comparably priced or even cheaper back then -- cars, medical care, etc. -- look much more expensive when quality and results get taken into account. (The car quality measure being safety and reliability more than performance or luxury.)

And this is to say nothing of things that we enjoy now that didn't even exist then, or existed in far inferior form. A typical family might have had one 19" color television getting 3 channels. No computer, internet, cell phones, etc.

There were a couple of things that were much cheaper: housing and taxes at the state and local level. (Effective federal tax rates were higher.) The cheapness of housing was reflective of far less restriction upon supply (suburbs were still being built out in many parts of the country that have now long since been filled in) and the absence of the incremental demand supplied by working spouses. State and local taxes were lower simply because the amazing power of compounding (budgets & civil servant wage & benefits) had only done 20 years of damage since the post-war welfare society began its scale-up, not the 60 years of damage we have on hand now.
33 posted on 07/11/2010 5:36:53 PM PDT by only1percent
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Flawed assumption.

Suppose Americans do not have sufficient income to purchase Chinese made products after the scenario you say sets in, what happens next? Will we sit on our hands doing nothing? The profit motive will make the entrepreneurial types create products. Even if they have no capital, they will do it using labor. That is the nature of the free-market.

34 posted on 07/11/2010 6:00:26 PM PDT by JimWayne
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To: JimWayne

“”Suppose Americans do not have sufficient income to purchase Chinese made products after the scenario you say sets in, what happens next?”

-

For starters, our military will collapse.

Just ours, mind you.


35 posted on 07/12/2010 8:40:31 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR1fDL7x1Sg)
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