Price: $9,895
http://www.opticshq.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Optics&Product_Code=SS-TAM-14&Category_Code=Thermal_Imaging
I have a TA01 ACOG site on my ‘sport utility rifle.’ I see why our forces are in love with them. Target acquisition is very fast and it has just enough magnification for identifying targets at range. Never needing to change batteries while have a VERY bright recticle is a huge advantage.
You’re not going to believe this but as I sit here I’m writing something and need exactly this kind of information, so I’ll be reading this with interest. Thanks for asking the question, now kindly stop reading my thoughts. ;)
My nighttime hunting is limited to going into the backyard with flashlight and shotgun to run off an occasional skunk. For deer, elk and coyotes, my preferred optics these days are Sightron Big Sky scopes, although I also like the Bushnell elite 4200s. Both fit into my budget. Both have lifetime warranties, though Sightron’s is best, the best in the business, I think. They are both completely weather proof, and their optics are of better quality than my eye can distinguish. The Sightron gets the edge in eye relief, though I have a 4200 on a 300 Win mag that does just fine. Someday, when there is nothing more important on my limited budget, I might breakdown and spend a few grand on night vision optics. A game camera might come a little sooner.
Target acquisition with it is lightning fast and if you get the distance set right the scope itself when using both eyes and the dot just floats there right on your target.
However, I really wish I'd taken the hit and bought one of the ACOG's. They're a step further than the Aimpoint and IMO a superior system.
In Falluja our guys were scoring headshots at 400 yards using them. That's damned impressive.
I don't have enough experience with NV or IR type scopes to offer much I'm afraid. Sorry.
Suffice it to say that I'm perfectly comfortable using my Aimpoint inside of 200 yards or so. Beyond that I just don't have a lot of confidence in it yet.
I have the a twelve-inch astronomical telescope mounted on a sixteen inch naval rifle. I shoot Cape Buffalo three counties away with it. I schedule road trips with a large rental truck to dress the carcass(es) and drive them home again.
I can afford to fire the thing about once every five years. The neighbors have just about forgiven me for the previous shot when the next one comes around, once again breaking every window in a mile radius and causing structural damage to the closest of my neighbor’s houses. I sound a klaxon five minutes before each shot, so that they know to take cover and protect their ears and eyes.
They think I’m eccentric. I can’t imagine why.
I hear that LaRue Tactical makes a high quality line of optics.
If you're stumbling over that price, don't bother looking for a cheaper solution. You can get 'okay' night vision quality for about $1000 less, but it's not going to compare very favorably to Gen 3+ gear if you could test them side by side.
The relatively inexpensive $200 "night vision" models you might see advertised in hunting magazines and sporting goods stores are amusing but barely worth the money. They're enhanced Gen 1 models that are basically like looking at the world through a green glass Coca-Cola bottle illuminated by a match.
For $200 you could buy an awesome flashlight or crappy night vision.
My current favorite .223 Remington/5.56mm optic is a Trijicon TA31F. dual-illuminated with the 4MOA red chevron. Too bad they're still expensive. They should be lots cheaper now in my opinion.
My next rifle is in it's planning stages but it will be an AR in 6.5 grendel (or .264LBC-AR) pushing it's operational effectiveness to a theoretical 800-1000yards. Tentative optics for this build will be a Nightforce 3.5-15x50mm Mil Dot with a Aimpoint micro on 45 degree offset mount. Iron site free. Other optic solutions worthy of mention would be a S&B short. The USO SN-4 is absolutely bullet proof. These are both top end scopes but worth it if you have the money.
Of course Trijicon has a good if not great solution for just about any AR you have in mind and they are a good value.
Price: $9,895
http://www.opticshq.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Optics&Product_Code=SS-TAM-14&Category_Code=Thermal_Imaging
from Travis McGee...Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 8:25:32 PM by Travis McGee
Okay, this wasn't a bench-by-bench comparison. But I did shoot one rifle last week at my range, and the other rifle today at a guest range. Both ranges are in Florida, if you care, on opposite coasts.
Both rifles were comparable M-4gerys. Top end or close to to top end. (Not junk.) Similar stocks, barrels, etc. I'm not going to mention the makes, because it's not the point of my essay tonight. Trust me, both are fine, fine rifles that are capable of greater accuracy than I ever will lend to them.
Okay. Rifle #1 sports a 1 power EOTech sight and a compensator/muzzle brake. The EOTech's 1X aiming point is a one minute of angle red dot, surrounded by a red circle. If you have read this far, you already know this.
Rifle #2 sports a 4X Trijicon ACOG and a flash suppressor. The ACOG's reticle is an orange triangle, the aiming point is the top tip. In both cases I was shooting from a bench and offhand at 100 yards at standard 100 yard NRA targets. These are about 2 feet square, with about a 10" black bullseye graduated with rings. I wasn't counting scores, but initial sighting-in groups, and then offhand effectiveness.
Impressions: the Trijicon is the finest sight I've ever shot on a combat carbine, period. Bar none. Better by far than my EOTech, Aimpoints (4 minute of angle red dots) and various other optical and electronic sights I have used. Off a rest, the Trijicon was shooting a sub 2" group, and I suck at bench rest shooting. I cannot get my EOTech to shoot that well, even though it has a 1 MOA red dot, mainly because my "over 50" eyes are starting to slip, maybe. The best bench groups I could get with the EOTech were about 4". The 4X Trijicon brought that 10" bull in sharp and clear. The triangle top reticle is like a surgeon's scalpel. Sub 2" bench groups were easy. Yet it's also bright and fast and "intuitive."
Bench rest verdict: Trijicon wins, hands down.
Standing, offhand. To get a little realism into the comparison, I shot identical NRA targets offhand, "semi-rapid fire." A combat carbine is about shooting with speed while running around and trying not to get shot. Bench rest performance is just step one. Standing offhand with both rifles/sights, I could really kill that 10" bull at 100 yards. The 1 MOA EOTech is easily centered. Offhand, both rifles and scopes were far better than the shooter, me. But to be truthful, semi-rapid fire standing, and going through entire 30 round mags to simulate realistic fatigue, I found it much easier to stay "all in the black" with the Trijicon. That 4X triangle is just so damn good. And it has built-in stadia steps under the triangle for 400 and 600 yards. I'd hate to be a Taliban with ten Marines chasing me with M-16 A3 mounted with Trijicons!
Offhand accuracy at 100 yards: Trijicon wins again.
Second discussion: flash suppressor vs. muzzle brake. One area where I must give credit to my own M-4gery with the EOTech is due to its brake/compensator. Yes, the 5.56mm "mouse gun" does not have much recoil. Yes, your ten year old little sister can shoot it without crying. BUT, my muzzle brake/compensator makes a fast rifle even faster. The Trijicon with the flash suppressor was more accurate, but just a bit slower than the EOTech with the brake. The Trijicon/flash suppressor would jump off of the target just enough between semi-rapid fire shots to force you to "re-acquire" the bull on the triangle.
But my EOTech with the compensator (no holes on the bottom, for zero "muzzle flip" means that my 1moa EOTech red dot stays dead-tits on the center of the bull between shots. If the ranges allowed true rapid fire, I'm sure that's when the brake would really shine. (No 'one second per shot rule'.) With the brake you can just nail your target all the way through a magazine, with both eyes open, never ever losing your point of aim even for a nanosecond.
But with no magnification, the EOTech just could not maximize the accuracy the way the Trijicon did.
My recommendation for the deadliest combo? Put a Trijicon on top of your M-4gery, and a muzzle brake/compensator on the front. Then you will be able to attack targets like a damn sewing machine! Who needs full auto, when you can just DRILL a target at 100 yards as fast as you can shoot?
Once I decide on the model AR-15 I want, it will be equipped with an EOTech Model 557 Holographic Sight.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=16213&TabID=548&cs=1
For ALL of my self-defense handguns.....
Practice “Point Shooting”!
You can do this dry.
Raise the weapon to any safe target, then assess how far off your sight view is.
Repeat, repeat, repeat!
Soon you will have 2 inch patterns at self-defense distance.
Much quicker than waiting to attain perfect sight view, when split seconds are critical!
Do you have much use from the magazine loops that Magpul makes to quickly remove spent magazines?if they don't fall free when you push the button, there's a problem...
fix the problem, don't spend money on something that will get caught on stuff
Travis did a thread on this topic including side-by-side use of two or three types. ACOG won.
On my AK it's iron.
On my M4 it's an Eotech 512.A65
On my Whitefeather (.308) and my AR-30 (.338LM) it's a Supersniper 10X42.
And on my M99 (.416Barret) it's a Nightforce 12-42X56 NXS with the NP-R1 reticle.
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As far as AR optics, what's your budget look like?
Night vision? I wish. In a pinch IR would work and you can get IR Chem Lights to mark areas off that only you or somebody with an IR viewer could see. IR has the shortcoming in that it is easily detectable as having a beam that can be drawn back to the sender so it would "paint" your location.
Even better would be THERMAL. There is a nifty little gadget I have seen advertised in several catalogs called a thermal game finder that is effective up to 300 meters on a cool evening for detecting large game (deer or man sized) in a woods environment, but may not work very well where there are a lot of targets in an urban area. Or where there will be buildings giving off heat to confuse things.
I'd also like a laser range finder. Those can be had for as little as $180 or so. Real high speed ones are found at up to $500 or more.
I agree with using night vision game finding cameras. Especially those that can be rigged up to a laptop for real time images. It might be possible to rig those up so that a remote detonator could...naaaaw I'm getting ahead of myself here!