Posted on 10/22/2010 8:10:34 PM PDT by Chet 99
By the way, dogsbite is a hate site, and it is well-known that it’s biased. The lady who created it was supposedly attacked by a pit bull, yet she was going by the name “bitbypit” a full year before her accident happened. Her site doesn’t allow anyone to post attack stories from other breeds, just the ones she hates, and if you try to give her information from a good source and it doesn’t agree with her opinion, she will erase it and ban you.
Also, she is the exact reason why I said that quotes from the CDC study are often used out of context to make it appear that they agree with pit bull haters’ claims. She only puts up what she wants people to see.
As for the Merritt-Clifton study, this has also been dismissed by experts as biased, intentionally misleading, and outright false. The man is the editor of Animal People magazine, yet he has absolutely no idea about the breeds he tries to malign. He says pit bulls have docked tails, (they don’t) and that Cane Corsos or Presas, one of those two is actually in the top three most dangerous breeds, even though they have taken less lives than labs have. He also uses three different categories for the same breed of dog (Blue Heeler, Queensland Heeler, etc.), and makes up a few along the way.
He has been repeatedly asked for the reports he used to compile his study, and on several occasions, his excuses included that he lost them, that he has them but doesn’t want to show them, and flat-out refusal along with lots of cursing. He was also offered quite a few additional news reports that he did not find for the same period of time, and he refused them. He is not an expert. He doesn’t have a degree in animal behavior, biology, genetics, or anything else that would make him an expert, and his study was not performed using scientifically acceptable means. Basically, he just made some stuff up and now he is considered a fool. Here’s a detailed story on it, about halfway down the page:
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/merrit-cliffton/
As for the part about the courts using an example of a tazed dog that was still gripping something, anyone in animal control or a vet’s office will tell you that any dog can continue holding on to something while being shocked, and even after being killed. Contracting muscles are to blame, not some kind of mythical desire to kill. What you have stumbled upon is the ultimate propaganda. If you don’t believe me, which I am sure you don’t, why don’t you read all the studies on dogsbite in their entirety and tell me if the authors’ messages throughout the studies are anything like what dogsbite says they are.
Also, the last time people I know tried to get a message to the author of this hate site, they were given a prompt that messages were sent when “donations” were made. Here are some better sites to look at:
www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com (The people on this council are veterinarians, animal behaviorists, biologists, all experts in fields directly related to the issue.)
www.atts.org (This is a compilation of thousands of dogs separated by breed, who underwent a test on unprovoked aggression. The dogs are given a series of challenges ranging from hearing gunshots to walking on uneven, noisy surfaces to meeting children, elderly, crazy, and menacing strangers, all to see what the reactions are. You can see here that pit bull-type dogs perform very well, often beating several other “friendly” breeds, even beating the average for all breeds.)
www.chako.org (This is a good resource of information including a blog regarding dog attacks that are commonly reported. There used to be a huge database with any and all dog attacks posted up, but for some reason I can’t find it on there....then again, I’m not great at searching for things anyway so it may still be there somewhere. This also shows several examples of pit bull service dogs as well, as the author of the site is very active in rescue, therapy, and dog sports.)
After I researched this issue on the web, I have realized that pit bulls are far, far more malevolent than I realized. I now support the eradication of the breed. This is not a pet and it doesn’t matter what propagandists like you say about the breed. The body count and damage due to pits speaks for itself as many of the victims are unable to speak (dead or maimed).
Oh you made a laughable assertion that there’s no proof that pits have a unique combination of physical and behavior traits and asked me to respond to that.
I said: Your argument overlooks the unique physical and behavior combination that pitbulls have.
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When the Colorado Supreme Court upheld the Denver pit bull ban in 2005, the high court set aside characteristics that pit bulls displayed when they attack that differ from other dog breeds. One of these characteristics was their lethal bite:
“[pit bulls] inflict more serious wounds than other breeds. They tend to attack the deep muscles, to hold on, to shake, and to cause ripping of tissues. Pit bull attacks were compared to shark attacks.”
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One of the most powerful examples of a pit bull “not letting go” occurred in an Ohio courtroom. During the Toldeo v. Tellings trial (Paul Tellings attempted to overturn Toledo and Ohio state pit bull laws and failed), Lucas County Dog Warden Tom Skeldon showed a videotape of a tranquilized pit bull hanging from a steel cable. The dog is unconscious and still does not release its grip. At the time of the taping, the animal was being housed at the county animal shelter.
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The main impediment to reading a dog’s communication is when
the dog is a fighting breed. The best strategy for a fighting breed is to not communicate your
intention.
This is why we hear about so may fighting breeds attacking without warning. Meaning there was no growl, there was no bark, there was no direct stare, the dog just went from point a to point b and did what he wanted to do.
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So most dogs are hardwired to respond to a display of submission by cutting off
aggression because it means you have won.
But if you area fighting dog and the object is to inflict the most damage possible, a submissive
gesture is just a new opening. In the early 80’s, I started hearing from the Humane Society about the
fighting breeds they were getting (and they did not know what they were getting). They would put
that dog into a pen with a German Shepherd, and the German Shepherd speaks “dog,” they play by
wolf rules, and the German Shepherd would go belly up, and the pit bull would just disembowel him.
They don’t speak that language. They ignore that signal.
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Fighting dogs lie all the time. I experienced it first hand when I was investigating three pit bulls that killed a little boy in Georgia. When I went up to do an initial evaluation of the dog’s behavior. The dog came up to the front of the fence, gave me a nice little tail wag and a “play bow” — a little solicitation, a little greeting. As I got closer, he lunged for my face.
It was one of those “ah ha” experiences. Yeah, that would really work. That would really work in a
dog pit. Because 99% of dogs are going to read that as “Oh boy I am your friend, let’s play — and
there’s my opening”. I said, How evil is that? That we have been able to create a dog that can do
something like that?”
Expert Randall Lockwood
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Leading pit bull education websites, such as Pit Bull Rescue Central, encourage pit bull owners to be responsible and to always carry a “break stick” — a device used to pry open a pit bull’s jaws — in case their dog “accidentally” gets into a fight. These same websites also warn that using a break stick on any other breed may cause serious injury to the person. This is true because no other dog breed possesses the pit bull’s tenacity combined with a “hold and shake” bite style.
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DogsBite.org Releases 3-Year Fatality Study: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008
The report shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 fatalities. Pit bulls accounted for 59% of these deaths, the second leading breed, rottweilers, accounted for 14%.
Pit bulls are also more likely to kill an adult than a child. In the 3-year period, pit bulls killed more adults (ages 21 and over), 54%, than they did children (ages 11 and younger), 46%. In the 21-54 age group, pit bulls were responsible for 82% (14) of the deaths. The data indicates that pit bulls do not only kill children and senior citizens; they kill men and women in their prime years as well.
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In a 25-year report that tracks dog bite injury and death, pit bulls attacked adults nearly as often as they attacked children. A trait not shared by any other breed. http://www.dogsbite.org/victim-realities-videos.htm
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Seattle, Washington (June 3, 2009) — DogsBite.org, a national dog bite victims’ group dedicated to reducing serious dog attacks, releases its 2008 report on pit bulls shot for public safety reasons. The 20-page report documents 373 incidences in which U.S. law enforcement officers and citizens were forced to shoot a dangerous pit bull to prevent an attack or to stop an ongoing attack.
The report tracked 12 data aspects per incident. Of the 373 incidences, 626 bullets were fired and 319 pit bulls were killed. 148 people suffered bite injury in these incidences as well. In at least three instances, the bite injury resulted in amputation. In six instances, the bite injury resulted in death. The findings also show that firearm intervention might have prevented at least eight deaths by a pit bull mauling in this period.
Information for the 12-month report was gathered through online media sources — Google News Alerts and web searches — at the time of the shooting. Extensive Internet searches were not performed to find the 373 incidences.
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Pit Bull Propagandists say that regulation of pit bulls doesn’t work - but they lie. When Pit bulls are banned or regulated, death and mauling by pit bulls goes down. Here’s some evidence from www.dogsbite.org:
Cities with Successful Pit Bull Laws; Data Shows Breed-Specific Laws Work
Pit bull and breed-specific laws save lives
The lives of children, adults, senior citizens, beloved pets, horses, and livestock.
Pit Bull Laws Save Lives
DogsBite.org - Cities and counties in at least 11 U.S. states report successful results after enacting a breed-specific pit bull law. These states include: Arkansas, California, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Washington. The providence of Ontario also reports successful results since it’s 2005 adoption of a pit bull ban. Pro-pit bull groups frequently say, “BSL doesn’t work.” The below city and law enforcement officials disagree.
In addition to fewer humans and pets being victimized by pit bulls after the adoption of such laws, shelters and pit bulls also benefit. Currently, pit bulls hugely dominate shelter resources across the U.S., despite nearly one million being euthanized in 2009. This overpopulation causes considerable burden for shelters, including: increased impounds, euthanizations and less housing space. Unlike other dog breeds, pit bulls often must be segregated in individual pens due to pit bull dog-aggression.
Ottumwa, IA
Population 24,998 | View Ordinance
In July 2010, Police Chief Jim Clark said there had been no recorded pit bull attacks since the city’s 2003 pit bull ban. Between 1989 and 2003, the city had a pit bull ordinance, but still allowed pit bulls as “guard” dogs.
“Police Chief Jim Clark says since the ban, there have been no recorded attacks by the animals.
“We haven’t had any attacks since then for one thing because it is illegal,” said Clark. “Most people are keeping their dogs inside their house or inside their basement and not letting them out loose so therefore they’re not around other people to attack them.”
-— related article -—
“In the two-and-a-half years before the 2003 ban, Ottumwa police recorded 18 pit bull attacks, including the death of 21-month-old Charlee Shepherd in August 2002. There were at least three other attacks on children during this time.”1
James Buechele, “Police chief supports pit bull ban,” KTVO3, July 12, 2010 (www.heartlandconnection.com) URL:http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=481775.
Council Bluffs, IA
Population 58,268 | View Ordinance
After two serious and separate pit bull maulings occurred on March 4, 2010 in the City of Indianapolis, the assistant city attorney of Council Bluffs spoke to a local radio host about Council Bluff’s 2004 pit bull ban:
“We passed a ban and started enforcing it in January of 05, at the end of 05 our numbers had dropped down to 19 people injured by pit bulls. In 06, the numbers dropped to 7 people injured by pit bulls. In 07, 2007 we only had two people injured by pit bulls and we haven’t had a person injured by pit bulls since. So in 2008 and 2009 we had zero attacks. As of March 5th, 2010 we have yet to have a pit bull injury here in Council Bluffs.”
“Radio Show Interviews Assistant City Attorney Don Bauermeister,” Greg Browning Show, March 5, 2010 (wibc.com) Transcript provided by DogsBite.org
San Francisco, CA
Population 808,977 | View Ordinance
When the City of Auburn debated enacting a pit bull law in January 2010, Sgt. Bill Herndon of the San Francisco Police Department weighed in about the success of San Francisco’s 2005 pit bull law:
“Since requiring all pit bulls to be neutered, they say they are finding fewer pit bulls involved in biting incidents.
Sgt. Bill Herndon, of the San Francisco Police Department’s vicious dog unit, said the numbers and severity of pit bull attacks are down since San Francisco enacted an ordinance in 2005 after the mauling death of 12-year-old Nicholas Faibish.
“The number of complaints of mean pit bulls has dropped dramatically,” Herndon said.
San Francisco’s animal control department reports more than 30 percent fewer pit bulls at the shelter or being euthanized.”
Ed Fletcher, “Auburn seeks ways to prevent another pit bull attack,” The Sacramento Bee, January 30, 2010 (www.scabee.com) URL:http://www.sacbee.com/2010/01/30/2500818/auburn-seeks-ways-to-prevent-another.html. Accessed: 2010-08-31. (Archived by WebCite® at http://www.webcitation.org/5sPLO97oa)
Lancaster, CA
Population 145,074 | View Ordinance
After Lancaster adopted a mandatory spay and neuter law for pit bulls and rottweilers in early 2009, it was reported just one year later, in January 2010, that the results of the ordinance were very positive:
“City officials said that 1,138 pit bulls and Rottweilers were impounded last year by the Los Angeles County Department of Animal Care and Control. Of those, 362 were voluntarily surrendered by their owners in response to Lancaster’s ordinance.
A year ago, this city was overrun with individuals — namely, gang members — who routinely used pit bulls and other potentially vicious dogs as tools of intimidation and violence,” Lancaster Mayor R. Rex Parris said in a statement.”
-— snip -—
“Parris believes there is a correlation between the results of the dog ordinance and a drop in the city’s gang crime rate. Lancaster’s violent gang crime, which includes homicide, rape, robbery and aggravated assault, fell by 45% last year, and there was a drop in overall gang crime by 41%, Parris said, citing statistics from the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.”
“Lancaster’s dog ordinance is cited in helping to drive down gang crime,” L.A. Now, January 21, 2010 (www.latimesblogs.latimes.com)
Omaha, NE
Population 438,646 | View Ordinance
After the City of Omaha adopted a pit bull law in 2008, Mark Langan of the Nebraska Humane Society, who opposed the law, said in September 2009 that pit bull biting incidents were down 35% since its adoption:
“Despite the attack of Haynes, The Humane Society’s Mark Langan says pitbull bites are down since new laws went into effect last year. Langan says so far this year 54 bites have been reported compared to 83 last year.”
Prince George’s County, MD
Population 834,560 | View Ordinance
Prince George’s County passed a pit bull ban in 1996. In August 2009, Rodney Taylor, associate director of the county’s Animal Management Group, said that the number of pit bull biting incidents have fallen:
“Taylor said that during the first five to seven years of the ban, animal control officials would encounter an average of 1,200 pit bulls a year but that in recent years that figure has dropped by about half. According to county statistics, 36 pit bull bites, out of 619 total dog bites, were recorded in 2008, down from 95 pit bull bites, out of a total of 853, in 1996.”
Jonathan Mummolo, “Pr. George’s Ban on Pit Bulls Resists Tenacious Opposition,” The Washington Post, August 17, 2009 (www.washingtonpost.com)
Pawtucket, RI
Population 71,765 | View Ordinance
When the City of Woonsocket was debating a pit bull ordinance in June 2009, the animal control supervisor in Pawtucket, John Holmes, spoke about the enormous success of Pawtucket’s 2003 pit bull ban:2
“Holmes says he predicted that it would take two years for Pawtucket to experience the full benefit of the law after it was passed, but the results were actually apparent in half the time.
“It’s working absolutely fantastic,” said Holmes. “We have not had a pit bull maiming in the city since December of 2004.”
Holmes says the law also capped the number of legal pit bulls in Pawtucket to about 70 animals.”
Russ Olivo, “Police push pit bull law,” The Call, June 14, 2009 (www.woonsocektcall.com)
Little Rock, AR
Population 189,515 | View Ordinance
When the City of Indianapolis was discussing a pit bull sterilization law in April 2009, Little Rock Animal Services Director Tracy Roark spoke about Little Rock’s successful 2008 pit bull ordinance:
“There was a day when you could walk down any street in center city Little Rock, you could see several pit bulls chained up. You don’t see that anymore,” said Tracy Roark with Little Rock Animal Services.
Roark told Eyewitness News over the phone that pit bull attacks have been cut in half and credits their new law with getting them there.
“This is the most abused dog in the city,” said Roark.
The Little Rock law passed last year and requires pit bulls to be sterilized, registered and microchipped. Also dogs - regardless of the breed - are also not allowed to be chained up outside.”
Mary Milz, “Indianapolis ordinance puts restrictions on pit bull breeds,” WTHR 13, April 7, 2009 (www.wthr.com)
Fort Lupton, CO
Population 6,787 | View Ordinance
When the City of Fort Collins was mulling a pit bull law in March 2009, Fort Lupton’s Police Chief spoke about Fort Lupton’s successful 2003 pit bull ban, including zero pit bull biting incidents since the law’s adoption:
“Fort Lupton Police Chief Ron Grannis said the city hasn’t had a pit bull bite since the ban was enacted, but it still has the occasional pit bull that is picked up and taken away. Although he said the ban has not been well-received by every resident, he thinks it was the right decision for the city.
“I believe it makes the community safer,” he said. “That’s my personal opinion. Pit bulls are not the kind of dogs most people should have. They are too unpredictable. ... These dogs have been bred for thousands of years to be fighters.
You can’t take it out of them. A lion cub may be friendly for a while, but one day it can take your head off.”
Erin Frustaci, “Opponents, supporters speak out about breed-specific bans,” The Greeley Tribune, March 28, 2009 (
Wapato, WA
Population 4,582 | City Website
In 2008, the City of Wapato passed an ordinance that bans new pit bulls, rottweilers and mastiffs. Nine months after its adoption, in March 2009, Wapato Police Chief Richard Sanchez reported successful results:
“Nine months into the ban and police calls about vicious dogs have been cut in half. The Wapato Police tell Action News they’ve gone from 18 reports in January, February and March of last year to seven so far in ‘09. “Seven calls in three months... that’s nothing,” says Chief Richard Sanchez, Wapato Police Department.
Chief Sanchez credits local cooperation for the decline of dangerous dogs.”
Sadie Malloy, “Pitbull Ban Has Wapato Locals Hiding Their Dogs,” March 20, 2009, KIMA CBS 29, (www.kimatv.com)
Springfield, MO
Population 156,206 | View Ordinance
In April 2008, the Springfield-Greene County Health Department released data to a local TV station showing that pit bull biting incidents declined following the City of Springfield’s adoption of a 2006 pit bull ban:
“The Springfield-Greene County Health Department reports that dog bites and vicious dog complaints are declining since the implementation of the Pit Bull Ordinance in the City of Springfield two years ago. In 2005 the health department fielded 18 vicious dog complaints, but only eight in 2007. Bites were down from 102 in 2005 to 87 in 2007.”
— snip —
“The ordinance, which requires pit bull owners to register their dogs annually, has also resulted in fewer pit bull dogs being impounded at the Springfield Animal Shelter. In 2005 there were 502 pit bull and pit bull mixes impounded, compared to only 252 in 2007.
“Because we are impounding fewer pit bulls, we’ve also seen overcrowding in our shelter subside,” says assistant director Clay Goddard. “It is the natural tendency of pit bulls to fight, so our animal control staff are forced to segregate them in individual pens. When we have several pit bulls in the shelter simultaneously, this severely limits space for other dogs.”
“Health Department says “Pit Bull Ordinance Working,” KSPR News, April 14, 2008 (www.kspr.com)
Toronto, Canada
Population 2,503,281 | View Ordinance
In a March 2008 Toronto Sun article, Toronto animal services reported that pit bull biting incidents had dropped significantly since the adoption of the Dog Owners Liability Act 2005, an act that banned pit bulls:
“And reports of bites by pit bull type dogs have dropped dramatically.
In 2004, the animal services department received reports about 130 of the powerful animals biting humans and animals.
The numbers dropped by substantial increments in subsequent years: 71 in 2005; 53 in 2006; and 44 in 2007.”
Zen Ruryk, “One endangered species,” The Toronto Sun, March 2, 2008 (www.torontosun.com) (Archived by DogsBite.org)
Reading, PA
Population 80,560 | City Website
After an 8-year legal battle, pit bull advocates dismantled a pit bull law adopted by Reading in 1998. It was reported in the same news article, in February 2008, that the law had significantly reduced biting incidents:
“Reading’s 1998 law required that aggressive or dangerous dogs [which pit bulls qualified for at this time due to their high bite counts], when outside the home, be muzzled and kept on a leash shorter than three feet long with a minimum tensile strength of 300 pounds. It punished violators with fines of up to $1,000 or 30 days in jail.
The law is credited with helping to reduce dog bites from 130 in 1999 to 33 in 2006. Reading city manager Leon Churchill said the total number of bites has fallen so low that no breeds are currently classified as dangerous.”
“Pa. appeals court throws out Reading’s aggressive-dog ordinance,” The Daily American, February, 27, 2008 (www.dailyamerican.com) (Archive unavailable)
Salina, KS
Population 46,140 | View Ordinance
In a monthly city newsletter, In Touch, published in September 2006, the City of Salina reported that the pit bull ban adopted in 2005 significantly reduced pit bull biting incidents in just a 12 month period.
The number of pit bull bites depicted in the “Salina Pit Bull Bites Reported” graph shows 2002 with 13 pit bull bites, 2003 with 11 pit bull bites, 2004 with 15 pit bull bites and 2005 with only one bite. The newsletter notes that “animal bites reported have remained constant, but the severity of bites have decreased dramatically” since the enactment of the pit bull ban.
For example, you say that banning pitbulls would allow another breed to take its place - no other breed has the combination of traits that make the relatively small pitbull outkill rotties and other guard dog species and the pitbull’s attack style is unlike that of other breeds. Also, ‘responsible ownership’ is not working in this country. By your own argument, the owners are the problems and yet we’re going to ‘encourage them’ to be more responsible? If reading in the paper or watching news reports of pitbulls killing children does not ‘encourage’ responsible ownership - I’d like to see what does. I think exotic license next and if that fails - banning.
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Q: How come pit bull owners say, “My dog might lick you to death.”
To understand the experience of owning a negatively perceived dog, Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy did a study on pit bull owners. Researchers found that owners of pit bulls directly feel the stigma targeted at their breed and resort to various tactics to lessen it. One of the tactics included attempts to counterbalance the pit bull’s menacing appearance and physical power with overwhelming “affectionate” behavior: “My dog might lick you to death.”
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Over 500 U.S. cities and most Military Housing areas (the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps have uniform policies) have adopted breed-specific laws to correct the pit bull problem. Such measures include: mandatory pit bull sterilization, mandatory pit bull liability insurance and special containment rules for pit bulls. The most progressive legislation bans the future breeding of pit bulls (a pit bull ban). In just a few years, these communities see a significant drop in pit bull bites and euthanizations.
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The facts are Pit Bulls are 14 times more likely to break containment than other breeds and attack, and when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds. The US Dog Bite fatality statistics clearly show that pit bull breeding practices are a public safety and law enforcement issue.
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Anyone wondering why a pit bull supporter goes to so much trouble to deny the sad reality that this breed of dog was selectively bred to kill and is good at it will find some answers here: http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pitbull-owners.htm
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For those who can stand to watch a woman in a hospital speak through what’s left of her face, she describes what it is like to survive a pit bull mauling (she has $100K in medical bills and no way to pay it) : http://www.wlox.com/global/category.asp?c=151146&clipId=&topVideoCatNo=15006&topVideoCatNoB=116100&topVideoCatNoC=116467&topVideoCatNoD=116474&topVideoCatNoE=88558&clipId=4706771&autostart=true
There are many such videos. The damage done is what sets pit bulls apart from all other breeds. My friend recalled trying to save a child from a pit bull that had her by the neck. In shock and wonderment he was amazed that hitting the dog over the head with a tire iron did not phase it. One of the many pit bull attack videos I watched included an older couple (late 60’s?), each armed with a hammer and reported hitting the dog repeatedly in the head with a hammer. The man said on camera, in wonderment - “It just had no effect on the dog.” More videos here: http://www.dogsbite.org/victim-realities-videos.htm
Pitbulls have been bred to be ‘game’ dogs. This term refers to a dog that will never back down, never stop fighting, will fight to the death. That’s why pit bull lover’s websites advocate carrying a ‘break’ stick, because if your pit bull attacks, he will not let go or stop fighting even if you command him to stop, even if people hit him etc. Some pit bulls are seen running from counter attack - this is considered a ‘disgrace’ to the breed because they are supposed to ‘never back down’.
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True: A dog of any breed is capable of aggression.
* Also True: Dogs attack when territory is breached, they perceive a threat to their owners, or they are suffering with rabies. Pit bulls attack when somebody looks at a horse1, sits on a porch1, rides in a pram1, or talks to a neighbor.1 Pit bull attacks rarely have anything to do with territory (they make terrible guard dogs1).
* Also true: Dogs chase cars and bark at them. Pit bulls remove pieces of cars, tearing and pulling at bumpers, fenders, and doors.1
* Also true: Some dog bites cause puncture wounds. Pit bulls maul, tear, and gut their victims. Bones are not only exposed, but ground down. Large holes are torn into abdomens, arms and legs.1
* Also true: Dogs provide warning signals to prevent physical violence. Pit bulls provide friendly signals,1 regardless of what they are doing or planning.
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For others reading this post:
Lots of good information at http://hubpages.com/hub/pit-bull-attacks including how to kill a pit bull that is trying to kill/maim you. Most people don’t need this information but if you own a pit bull or live in a neighborhood where pit bulls break out routinely and roam the neighborhood - this could be useful.
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Pit bull apologists like you got away with this for years - daring people to find ‘studies’ because, although the savagery of pit bulls was well known, there was no central hub recording this info. Then www.dogsbite.org started recording statistics and other sites have jumped in and now the body count is stacking up. The big, ugly, bleeding body count. Here are some victims of pit bulls explaining in shocked tones that an attack from a pit bull is not like an attack from any other dog. I didn’t include them all because there were too many and because they become nauseating to read. The rest are found on the following link:
http://www.dogsbite.org/victim-realities-voices.htm
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It looked like my mother’s legs had been run over by a car. Pieces of her body were scattered around the scene.
angel germain
The first time he looked in the mirror, it scared him, and he asked if it was his face. He says he wants his other mouth back.
tanya barnes
Mr. Bowden was maimed beyond recognition, with no facial features remaining and other horrific disfigurement.
andy castaneda
The big pit was chewing the man’s arm off. It was horrible. I’ve never seen anything like that.”
julie havern
She suffered a fractured skull and required more than 300 stitches to close her wounds. She also lost many teeth and had numerous bones in her face shattered.
kortnie murphy
The first thing I think of is a lion. I don’t know of too many animals that can do that to you.
state police news release
His right hand had been bitten off by a pit bull dog in the house.
marjorie boyd
This is not just a bite. This is a mauling. This is an unprovoked mauling, and there’s a big difference.
joyce haynes
It was like getting a piece of meat (torn off), like that movie ‘Jaws.’
brenda hill
‘Cause they was eating me, and they were eating me while I was saying that. I couldn’t protect myself. I just took the pain — and the pain was bad.
roger lindee
I felt like I was fighting a person. I was choking him, and we were on the ground rolling. I was asking God to help me because I knew I was dying.
doug perry
I always thought that maybe [pit bulls] were getting kind of a bad rep at one point, but this kind of changed my mind...I don’t think pit bulls should be allowed for anyone to have. They are not a pet.
pat sorensen
I remember taking my hands and pushing my nose back up and holding my cheek — what was left of it — and falling to the ground.
joyce lovette
I haven’t really been an advocate of the pit bull ordinance until now...Nothing was gonna stop those dogs. Nothing.
michael jones
We are very, very lucky that the dog’s bottom jaw did not get under Delaney’s bottom jaw, because when I pulled her out of his mouth, I would have pulled her whole bottom jaw out, which the nurse told me would have been a horrific scene.
robert brady
When I got there, [my son’s feet] looked like hamburger meat you would see at Bi-Lo.
jason howell
[The pit bulls] ripped it to shreds. What could the child possibly have done to instigate that? I have a daughter who is 18 months old. And the look on the father’s face is something I’ll never forget, ever.
anthony dippolito
I shot [the pit bull] right in the chest with a .45, and it didn’t even fall over. I was quite surprised.
lisa wallace
It ripped from here, all the way down, it took his whole face off.
john makus
This was not a dog bite, it was attempted dismemberment. There is no way to describe the savagery and carnage.
isaiah brown
The dog had tore into his calf and when he let go, he just snatched and pulled all the arteries out. He was lying on the steps, and when I checked his vital signs he was already dead then.
david blair
It was an instantaneous attack. No noise, no warning.
reginald bell
The dogs were actually eating him alive. It’s not easy to picture.
andrew “moses” diodati
I was kicking one pit bull so hard that all four of its feet were in the air, but it still wouldn’t let go.
roommate
I heard the bones crush on his left arm. The dog bit the boy’s face and neck, ripped his lip and bent his arm back like paper.
jim dunn
The dogs were possessed. [The baseball bats] would knock them down, and like cartoon characters, they would shake their heads then go right back to biting even worse.
richard woods
I’m missing my biceps. I nearly lost my eye, but the doctors were able to save it.
denise saurman
It looks like a chainsaw. It is amazing how fast, just in seconds, how much damage this pit bull can do.
ona deane-gordly
The [pit bull] jumped off the balcony and on to my head.
stephanie nilsen
It was close to 96 stitches because she kept stitching and stitching and stitching and I just lost count. He ripped up all the tissue from my bone, so they couldn’t be able to stitch all of it up.
nathan anderson
She has a steel plate under her right cheek from where the dog broke her face. Her whole face is all scarred — completely.
melanie young
I didn’t believe he would ever hurt me...ever. That dog slept with me like a husband.
sue thompson
I was hitting him in the head with a hammer, and Bob was too.
flint selby
It disturbed me pretty good to see a dog run a horse to death.
jennifer walker
It looked like a murder scene. It looked so bad I had to turn away at one point. I thought I was going to get sick.
charlena sylvesters
Seven months pregnant, he locked onto her stomach, and we had to get him off of her.
sam campbell
She’s struggling with this, the dog attack, the loss of her arms and not being able to get around.
rudy bernal
He was dragging her, and all her scalp was hanging by her side. He wouldn’t turn her loose. He would let her go and attack her again. I saw police shoot the dog with a stun gun. That’s the only way they could cut him loose.
jean kidd (911 call)
I think I see blood everywhere, so please come in a hurry...I heard her screaming, and I just went to find a neighbor, because there’s no way I’m going across.
sandra goodwin
We saw the pit bull running at us from about 150 yards away,” Sandra said. “It was coming at us like a bullet.
timothy jacobs
Within five minutes Page’s face was gone. I heard her screaming, “Help me, help me.”
I can see why you would not like it if people start documenting the carnage caused by pit bulls. The documented truth about pits is worse than I realized. A few websites have begun to record data about these mutant beasts that will one day, thankfully, result in the banning of this breed.
How is recording the names, dates, and details of pit bull attacks ‘hate’ or ‘bias’?
You are free to establish a website listing the attack information and videos of other breeds. You just won’t find the gruesome body count and documented fatalities and maulings to put on your ‘dachshunds bite’ website! You are not entitled to tell the owner of that website what to put on it - she doesn’t have to put up with your propaganda. You have your own websites for propaganda (pit bull lovers etc.) but even those website advocate that pit bull owners carry a break stick. Why? Hmmmm? Daschunds and collies don’t require a break stick but pit bulls do. Because pits are notorious for traumatic, unthinkable blitz attacks during which even their own owners cannot get them to stop attacking or to release their ‘prey’...hence the need for break sticks to pry those huge jaws open.
Pit bulls and pit bull crosses are the result of selective breeding of killing machines. Making a pet out of it doesn’t change the instinctive behavior bred into this animal. The dogsbite.org website details a ‘therapy’ pit bull (used as an ambassador) spontaneously attacking a police horse (some are featured in video reports that I watched). Yes pit bulls have successfully attacked and killed horses too. So much to ‘love’ about the breed that kills horses and adult humans, eh? Me, I prefer an animal that does want to /doesn’t try to kill people or animals as often as pits do.
All the chaff you throw, all of it - does NOTHING to refute the documented events during which those dogs maim and kill. The documented number of times police officers have had to shoot a pit to stop or prevent an attack works out to be about 1 pit bull a day. The rate at which pits kill humans works out to be about one person in the US being killed by a pit ever 22 days on average. Hey what are the numbers for dalmatians, huh?
What’ve ya got for that? Hmmmm? Are people only pretending to lose their faces and limbs to pits just to ‘spite’ you? Are people pretending to be ripped apart and killed just to hurt the reputation of pit bulls? The’re all just ‘haters’ huh?
The experts who don’t agree with you are ‘haters’? The military, which won’t use pits because they are unpredictable are ‘haters’? Cities banning these vicious dogs - are cities haters too?
I guess you didn't get the memo!!!
They ain't baad dawgs,,,
It's all the owners fault don't’cha know!!!
How will I know who to shoot?!?!?!
Maybe the dawg first,,,?
Then give the owner a full magazine...?
Well, while you reload, I’ll mention here that the owners ARE a problem, just not in the way that the owners say it.
Any owner with a dog that has yet to maim/kill considers themselves a ‘superior’ owner and has nothing but scorn for those who have witnessed the genetically determined killing instinct of their own dog (and who are then labeled ‘irresponsible owners’ by their ‘superiors’) that they have raised from a puppy. These self anointed ‘superior’ dog owners are hastily thrown under the bus (relabeled ‘irresponsible’) by their peers the moment THEIR dog does revert to the behavior the breed is known for (kills a family member, maims the postman etc). So all pit owners are on a continuum - just biding their time as ‘superiors’ until they are labeled ‘irresponsible’.
I think that all pit bull owners are irresponsible owners. They either ignore advice that they carry a break stick (to pry own their dogs jaws during an attack), an equipment omission which even the pit lovers websites portray as ‘irresponsible’ or they do carry a break stick because they realize that their dog is known to a)kill and maim and b) become uncontrollable and unwilling to respond to their owner’s commands to release their prey or halt their attack and yet they choose to own one anyway.
Here, let me help you with that bandolier...
You know after writing ‘all owners are irresponsible’ am having second thoughts because I have read a few accounts that indicate a small number of pit bull owners simply fell for the propaganda.
On dogsbite.org there’s a story about a woman who did everything the pro pitbull websites and experts said to do (very intensive training routine) and followed up with them as the dog slowly became a problem. When the dog attacked her own dog and bit her husband in the process, she was crushed but decided to have the dog euthanized because having done everything possible to socialize the thing, it was reverting to its own natural aggression. She wrote a six page detailed account of all her efforts to encourage and socialize the animal and submitted it to the shelter with a request that the dog be euthanized.
The shelter then stopped communicating with her and put the dog up for adoption with no mention of aggression and stressing that the dog was affectionate and lovable. I give that woman credit - she did everything right, and then the ‘experts’ took over and apparently adopted the dog out by advertising it as friendly. Once she studied up on the breed, she felt that she had been duped by the propaganda and had gone through this painful process for nothing (she really loved the dog and it was painful to decide to have it euthanized and her other dog was traumatized by the attack). And she wondered who ended up with that ticking time bomb of a dog after she gave it up...
The websites you speak of (dogsbite?) ARE hate sites, and they ARE biased because they do not report ALL serious attacks. Just try to post something from a labrador on there and see what happens. You found something that supports your claims, but you are not willing to admit there’s a problem: the site is devoted to the rantings of a woman who has admitted to having mental issues, who won’t allow certain stories to be posted, who has been SUED for defamation of character because she can’t keep her hateful mouth closed, who requires a payment just to send her a message, who purposefully censors and skews information taken from reputable websites to fit her agenda, and who is now trying to rid the world of any service dog that looks like a pit bull.
The rational, educated, un-biased sources that have nothing to gain or lose either way aren’t good enough for you because you don’t require facts, you want support of your claims in any way you can get it.
Why do you insist on supporting this crackhead? Do some real research....actually read the studies in their entirety and tell me they say what she says they do. If you don’t bother to at least read the CDC/JAVMA study, you are obviously not interested in the truth, and are just here to argue.
And for the record, break sticks are used on the breed because they are gripping dogs. Unlike most other breeds, when in a fight they flail and bite anything that touches them, pit bull type dogs (many, not all) are calm, and do not (generally) redirect their aggression on the handlers, meaning you can separate them fairly easily by using something to open their mouths. Many responsible pit bull owners that have more than a couple dogs say they have used it on other breeds, but generally breaking up a dog fight with other dogs will get you bit by one or both.
You really should just read the study. You have a lot of passion about this, but you just don’t get that there are people on “that side” that don’t have your best interest at heart, no matter how pretty their website is. Don’t let others feed you your opinion. Research from reputable places, and see the difference in “facts”.
You never did tell me why it is that of the two thousand daily dog attacks sending people to the hospital, why we only hear about one or two of them, and those are almost always from pit bulls.....
You also never responded to the fact that the average number of deaths has not increased since pit bulls became popular. They simply replaced other breeds that fell out of popularity. Tell me you don’t remember the same thing happening years back with dobies and german shepherds! The difference today is that the internet makes everything instantly accessible, and you can see stories from every city, whereas back then you could only see the national news or your own local news. The numbers do not lie. If the average jumped up by fifty, I could see it as being a breed issue, but it hasn’t been raised any more than what is caused by the increase in dog and human populations.
Fatalities from dog attacks have been documented thus far in the United States for 2010
(updated 4/19/10)
•California: A family-owned pit bull type dog attacked and killed a three-year-old boy on January 9 in Apple Valley, San Bernardino County. A news report indicates that the father left his son momentarily in the backyard to get a toy from inside the house, and upon his return he discovered that his son had already been attacked, and was not breathing. Authorities arrived at the scene, and shot and killed the dog. The incident was one of five fatal dog attacks in Southern California’s Inland Empire since 2006.
•Illinois: A 56-year-old South side Chicago man was mauled to death by at least two pit bull type dogs in his home on January 17. In total, there were six pit bull type dogs found in the home, four adults and two puppies, owned by his daughter who may have been breeding the dogs, although this is not clear. The daughter also lived at the home but was not home at the time of the attack. The mauling was savage, with both ears bitten off, one of the man’s eyes completely gouged, and numerous bites throughout the man’s torso and extremities, suggesting more than one dog’s involvement. According to neighbors, these dogs did not have a history of aggression towards people, were friendly towards neighbors, and the daughter maintain good control over of the dogs. Authorities concluded that the death was “accidental”.
•Mississipi: The fatality involved a six-year-old girl who was playing in the snow outside her home and was attacked by a neighbor’s pit bull dog. Apparently, only one dog was involved in the incident, but reports indicate that this dog lived with other pitbull dogs nearby. The probable cause of death to the victim were severe bite marks to the neck. In Terry, MS on February 12.
•Minnesota: The victim in this incident was an 11-day-old boy in a car seat situated on the owner’s bed. The dog involved was the family’s unusually large , male 70 lb. Siberian husky. Injuries were inflicted to the victim’s head. A story about this incident in which Dr. Polsky was interviewed can be accessed here. On February 18, in Independence, MN.
•Pennsylvania: The victim was a 38-year-old female who was arguing with her mother in the early morning hours of February 19 in the Fishtown section of Philadelphia, when one of the family’s pit bulls, an adult female, fatally attacked the victim as she fell backward during an argument. The mother was fighting with her daughter in an attemp to take the keys to the house away from her. According to news reports, when she fell backwards a lamp came crashing to the floor, which likely further exacerbated whatever aggressive tendencies this particular pit bull dog had momentarily as the incident unfolded. The mother said that the dog was in some sort of “protection-mode”. The dog locked its jaws around the victim’s neck and would not release. Reports indicate that neighbors, along with the mother, who also had five other pit bulls in the house, claim that all dogs were well-behaved and there were no problems between the dogs and the daughter. The daughter was familiar wih the dog involved in the incident. The daughter lived at the residence when she was not in jail or in drug-rehab. When the police arrived they shot two of the dogs, and the other four were taken to the SPCA.
•Flordia: In Ocala, FL. on February 20. The breed of dog involved in the incident was the American bulldog, despite other reports initially stating the breed was pit bull. The victim in this case was a three-year-old girl who was playing in the yard, and then entered the caged area containing four tethered, American bulldogs. The toddler became entangled on one of the dog’s tether, and was attacked and killed by a single, reproductively intact, male dog. The mother was cleaning the cages, and may have left the cage door unlatched, but this is unclear. She had gone into the house to use the restroom, and upon return discovered her child was inside the cage and mauled by the dog. The mother was operating a dog breeding business out of her home.
•Georgia: On February 18 in Conyers, GA. The victim was a five-day-old infant fatally wounded by a pit bull type dog. The mother walked into her daughter’s room, in response to the infant’s crying, and discovered the dog on top of the infant in the bassinet.
•Oregon. The victim was a four-year-old girl killed by the family 2 year-old Rottweiler. Details are sketchy for this case other than the fact that the mother discovered her badly injured child on the front lawn of the house, and shortly thereafter the child was taken to a Portland hospital where she was pronounced dead on arrival. The victim was the daughter of television’s reality show “Ax Men”,co-star Jesse Browning. According to an investigator, “apparently, the dog just snapped”. In Astoria, Oregon on or about February 28.
•Oklahoma. On March 8 on the Iowa Indian Reservation near Perkins, Oklahoma. Victim was an eight-month-old boy by two Rottweiler dogs brought into the home the night before for protection purposes. Initially news reports indicated that just one dog was involved, but this was changed to two dogs in subsequent reports. Both dogs were destroyed by animal control. Cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head, according to the medical examiner. Information on this case is sketchy. Note that other dog bite fatalities have occurred on Indian reservations in North America in 2010.
•Flordia. The incident involved a three year old, male pit bull mix dog, who severely mauled a seven-day old infant. The incident happened on the bed where the infant routinely slept with his 16-year-old mother. According to news reports, this particular pit bull dog, slept in the same bedroom with the infant and his mother. The mother was home at the time of the incident, but slept through the attack and discovered injured the baby later, but the infant could not be revived. According to others who knew the dog, this pitbull mix dog displayed no previous signs of aggressive behavior towards people. In New Port Richey, Florida on or about April 13, 2010.
The military is not considered expert when its trainers only complete a training course lasting a few months. They do not compare to the veterinarians, behaviorists, biologists, and geneticists that bothered to get a REAL education and disagree with the military. I have a great respect for what the military does, but dog experts they are not.
You keep talking about this death toll, forgetting each time that it hasn’t risen significantly since pit bulls became popular. I have noticed several breeds over the years that almost always take lives on a yearly basis, and it always happens to be the breeds that are most popular with people that want “bad” dogs. You don’t hear about dog attacks coming from truly responsible homes. Most of them are either running loose or chained up, or worse, left alone with a newborn or toddler. These are all owner issues, and experts studying this issue agree with this. The military and the state government of whatever place has banned them do not bother doing the correct research. They hire “experts” that often have no real education relating to the subject, which is how that ridiculous “dog still gripping something when tazed” story got in there. Anyone working with dogs will tell you pit bulls aren’t the only dogs that hold on when tazed!
Forgot to mention, when they say attacks from pit bulls go down in areas where they are banned, they are correct. The less of a breed is there, the less they will be around to attack. HOWEVER, they fail to mention that (Denver in particular) the OVERALL rate of serious attacks does NOT decline! Other dogs simply replace the ones that were banned, because the OWNERS are still there, and they were the problem to begin with. There is a study of Denver that shows this, and I will find it and post it up here for you so you can see what they are NOT bragging about.
Here is a link to the study:
http://www.livingsafelywithdogs.org/mm_frameset_about_us.htm
If you don’t want to read it, I will summarize for you:
Out of 700 thousand dogs involved in the study, there were 350 dog bites, which were caused by 129 different breeds. Of these, 46 different breeds were involved in ten or more bite incidents. The majority of bites were considered minor to moderate, with only 13% considered as maulings (incidentally, no breed was responsible for more than 2 maulings). Dogs that were coming into sexual maturity (1 to 4 years) were most often involved in bites. The top biters were labs (13.3%), pit bull types (8.4%), german shepherds (7.8%), rottweilers (3.9%) and chows (3.5%). Labs, german shepherds, and pit bulls are also three of the most popular breeds. Dogs at large was the single most common bite circumstance. Pit bulls ranked 7th in severity of bites, below lhasa apsos, dalmatians, and dachshunds. The entire study is not that long, so if you don’t believe what I have written, feel free to read it. It’s very interesting, and it mirrors other studies done in the UK, Netherlands, and Ontario, Canada.
How sad that the majority of those deaths you posted were preventable tragedies involving very young children. Out of the ten tragedies, 7 involved very young children or babies alone with a dog, and one involved a baby sleeping with a drugged-up mother that didn’t even wake up when it was happening! Three of the incidents involved dogs in packs, two involved breeding pairs, one involved chained dogs, and another, a dog running loose. It is no coincidence that the CDC states irresponsible ownership/parenting as the single most common factor in all dog attack fatalities, regardless of the breed.
Ok, one more thing. The military USED to be very supportive of pit bulls, using them as messengers during war, and as models for propaganda posters. If I remember correctly, there was a highly-decorated war hero from years ago whose name was Sgt. Stubby, and from what I have recently read, a few years back (before bsl cropped up on bases everywhere) some branches of the military were using pit bull/malinois crosses as working dogs. During the time that the military was proud of their pit bulls, the breed was very popular as a family pet, and they were not involved in fatalities at all. The difference between then and now is that the demand back then was for a family pet, and the demand now is for many less-than-desirable things.
You lie to much. Seriously. I don’t have time to go through each and every lie - that’s why I don’t respond to everything you post.
What part of ‘they don’t have to report ALL dog breed data’ don’t you understand? Their various linked articles and some locations on the thread mention other problematic breeds like rotties and wolf hybrids (too many deaths/injuries there too) but this website focuses on pits. What aspect of this do you believe is useful in your empty, pointless argument? All the flack you throw does not eliminate the injuries and fatalities - spin all you want but the facts are against you and the breed. Long long lists of compiled names, dates, locations, and details of pit bull fatalities and maulings - you only care about YOU so that information doesn’t matter to you but it matters to people who sit in court rooms and evaluate breed specific laws.
You say that I ‘found something that supports’ my claims...uh...the names, dates, locations and details of pit bull fatalities. Yes, that information supports my claims. I watched many videos linked from that site and witness accounts, rescue worker accounts, police accounts, and family and victim accounts attest to the psychological trauma that experienced watching an animal attack without warning, and rip huge chunks of flesh off, and that NOTHING would stop the animal. Not hitting it with a bat, a hammer, a crowbar etc. WHY do you need to be permitted to post something about a Labrador on that site? It will not eliminate the names, dates, locations, and details of pitbull fatalities. No rational person equates Labrador behavior with pit bull behavior. Let me repeat that, no rational person equates Labrador behavior with pit bull behavior. Other species of dog can possess instincts to maim and kill (a feature that the breeders reject in those species) but pits are intentionally bred for this purpose.
One of the most malevolent things that the pit bull enablers have done is to try to pass of this barbaric animal as a service dog. They are not service dogs. I have recently read an account of a woman trying to pass off her pit bull as a service dog - the college she attends banned her dog noting that no service dog organization certifies pit bulls as service dogs. I also read an account of a pit bull that was being passed off as a service dog spontaneously attacking a horse and rider.
The reason that dogs that look like pits are being banned is that pit owners lie so much they have no credibility. The breed name was changed in AKC every time it’s vicious unpredictable nature became known so it already has multiple names. And pit bull owners, lacking a conscience that would stop them from doing this, freely lie to conceal the identity of their dogs or point to older obsolete names of the dog and claim that the public doesn’t know what it’s talking about or fabric new names like “American Bulldog”.
Pit bull owners have done this to themselves by lying - the public is learning to trust pit bull owners and what they say just as much as they trust an animal bred to kill that attacks without warning and leaves victims dead, maimed, and traumatized. You attack this woman for ‘admitting to having mental issues’ and ‘ranting’; I hope that makes you feel better but you can’t refute the names, dates, locations and details of pit bull victims she records on her website. Well, I see your strategy, you can’t refute the facts so you attack the messenger.
Your personal vindictive vitriol does not make you MORE credible. When I got to the part where you called her a crack head I looked back at your accusations that ‘she can’t keep her hateful mouth shut’ and thought to myself ‘pot, meet kettle’ You’re still raving because that’s all you have, personal attacks - you can’t refute the body count.
Ok I started laughing when I got to one of your low points - the pretty little way you say that pit bulls are ‘gripping dogs’ unlike other dogs who flail and bite anything that touches them. You say that pit bulls remain ‘calm’. Well, that’s because pit bulls are calm when they attack and try to kill and other dogs are panicked and afraid of being approached. I read a six page document by someone who adopted a pitbull and participated in ‘by the book’ extensive and gentle training of the animal after she brought it home (she ended up requesting the dog be euthanized). The more relaxed the pit became, the more aggressive it became. An animal specialist reviewed the six page document and noted that most dogs bite to clear a space around them (fear) and to make a break for it but pit bulls are opposite - they are reserved when they are not confident but as they become more confident in their setting, they become more dangerous and violent. Other dogs flail in panic - pit bulls are intent on killing and bred to never give up, never let go, do the most damage, kill. You can’t pretty up this barbaric breed but your conscience does not stop you from trying.
You say “you just don’t get that there are people on “that side” that don’t have your best interest at heart”. Pit bull lover’s websites are home to pit bull lovers and pit bull fighters - and I choose the company I keep. I don’t like yours. I have yet to see a speck of compassion or responsibility on the part of pit bull owners. I have read many many accounts of pit bull owners fleeing the scene of maulings to avoid having legal or financial responsibility for the damage their dogs do.
I have read the names of the dead and maimed - the body count and body damage is far too high to be accepted by a civilized society - no you cannot refute the video of the woman who’s face is missing or, for that matter, all the accounts of pit bull savagery that are being recorded on more than one website I visited.
What you can do is tell me that pit bulls ‘grip’ and remain ‘calm’. You lie to much for me to respond to all those paragraphs of absurd fake arguments. I have five college degrees and was employed as a field biologist for the feds - I KNOW how to evaluate data sources. The ‘information’ you provide is compost worthy. You are deceptive (pit bulls remain calm), vindictive (calling the website owner crackhead), and stereotypical of the problem that pit bull owners cause. The owners are indeed the problem - they have limited conscience, no compassion, and they lie. Their dogs are also the problem - they are acting on the evil instincts bred into them over many many generations.
Pit bulls are a sad mistake of human vice (dog fighting) and dog genetics. I support the dog specific laws banning breeds that have no place as pets (pits, pit crosses, wolf hybrids, any other breed that has hideous statistics for killing and maiming) because if you only ban the most damaging offender (Pits) then pit bull owners will track down the next most vicious breed. Once all genetically vicious breeds are controlled, I suspect that pit bull owner types will focus on animals that can be trained to be vicious.
You quote THIS study as ‘proof’?????
“Pit bulls ranked 7th in severity of bites, below lhasa apsos, dalmatians, and dachshunds.”
Again with the dachshunds! And this time....lhasa Apsos!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Pit bulls kill 1 person on average every 22 days in the US (2006-2009 data) and that number could be higher except that the police shoot approximately one pit bull per day (2008 data) in this country in order to halt or prevent maulings and killings. NO NORMAL PERSON thinks that the bite of a pit bull is less severe than that of a dachshund or llasa Apsos!!!! Just how many police feel the need to shoot an attacking dachshund, huh? Or LHASA APSOS!!!!!
“You quote THIS study as ‘proof’?????”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Do you know what it takes to have a reputable study? This study was made by experts in relevant fields. The information was collected in a scientifically-acceptable way. The sampling was large enough to cancel out any aberrations (statisticians will tell you the minimum necessary is 30, and in this case there were 700 thousand).
Your website was created by an unstable, angry person who is biased and possibly criminal. She was known as “bitbypit” online a full year before she claimed she was attacked. You should be worried about your sources, not mine, as I have no intention of hiding where they come from.
“Pit bulls kill 1 person on average every 22 days in the US (2006-2009 data)...”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On average in this country, there are anywhere from 25 to 35 deaths a year caused by dog attacks. Regardless of breed popularity in any given period of time, there has not been less than a death a month since people have bothered to calculate the numbers, and this is for periods far before pit bulls became popular or were even showing up at all on that list. Last year, 19 people died from non-pit bull-type dogs.
For the record, having worked with dogs for over a decade, I have been bitten/attacked by several breeds. Two separate incidents involved dachshunds, and according to the CDC’s study, the breed has taken more than one life. Don’t underestimate a dog’s abilities based on its size. There have been many small and toy breeds that have taken lives over the years, much to the surprise of their owners.
Ah hahahahahahahahahahahah!!!! Giant brains got together a big huge study and their results indicate that doxies and llasa apsos have a more ‘severe bite’ than pit bulls!!!!
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA....you have no integrity...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...you have no idea what you are talking about...............MMWWWAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA
These pathetic absurd claims you make, and now you hint that the other woman whom you disagree with is possibly a criminal!!!!! You are a riot! Your embarrassment at your inability to defeat the documentation she is collecting drives you to bigger and bigger insults! What credibility could you possibly have?? You still can’t address the body count - the names, dates, links to news articles, links to videos all documenting the vastly disproportionate damage done to human life and limb by pit bulls.
“On average in this country, there are anywhere from 25 to 35 deaths a year caused by dog attacks. “ And about 55% of these fatalities are caused by pits even though pits are a small portion (about 5%) of the dog population.
“Last year, 19 people died from non-pit bull-type dogs.” 19 deaths spread over many breeds but another 19 people died from pit bull attacks even though pits are about 5% of the dog population.
Again you point to the ‘menace’ of dachshunds!!!! You lose credibility every time you say it.
“Don’t underestimate a dog’s abilities based on its size.” Oh I don’t. The pit bull ranges from 40lbs to 123lbs of sheer terrorizing fighting dog muscle and unpredictable rage. They kill because they want to; it’s the instinct bred into them. It’s the only dog known to kill more adults in their prime than children. It’s the one that attacks with out warning or provocation and even one pit can pull a horse to the ground and open big fleshy wounds despite the thickness of horse hide. But pits are responsible for more deaths than larger dogs because they have been genetically bred to kill and maim for hundreds of years and they are still being bred in the United states today to kill and maim.
“You lie to much. Seriously. I don’t have time to go through each and every lie - that’s why I don’t respond to everything you post.”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Have you bothered to look at a single one? I am not asking you to read everything out there, but if you are parroting what a crackhead web designer is spouting off about without even checking to see if it’s true, you are the one looking like a fool.
I have no reason to lie. My sources are not from self-proclaimed experts, google, or “attack victims”, but from veterinarians, biologists, animal behaviorists; experts in relevant fields who have spent years of their lives to be able to do great things!
“What part of ‘they don’t have to report ALL dog breed data’ don’t you understand? Their various linked articles and some locations on the thread mention other problematic breeds like rotties and wolf hybrids (too many deaths/injuries there too) but this website focuses on pits. What aspect of this do you believe is useful in your empty, pointless argument?”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My point is clear: if you don’t report every serious attack, you hide the ones you don’t like, and you claim that certain breeds are worse because you have all of these stories with only them involved, that is called manipulation, deceit, lies. When you try to get laws passed using anecdotal evidence, cherry-picked sob stories, and quotes from reputable studies that are taken out of context, you are doing the community a disservice. Can’t you see that the creator of the website you got your information from is the definition of biased? The saddest part is that the very studies you say I am using to lie to you are the ones she posted on her idiotic hate site. The difference is that I bothered to read the studies, and you and she did not.
“Long long lists of compiled names, dates, locations, and details of pit bull fatalities and maulings “>>>>>>>>>>
OK, so you have compiled media reports showing these things. Great. What about public health records, which show a HUGE DISCREPANCY between what the media (and therefore dogsb*te) reports and what is actually going on? According to them, there are thousands more serious attacks that simply don’t make the news. Who will give those victims a voice? Certainly not you....all you seem to care about is pit bull attacks. Well, take them away, and guess what? You have less pit bull attacks. Hooray? Nope. So far, every place that has banned the dogs has seen a decrease in pit bull attacks, while the OVERALL NUMBERS STAY THE SAME! Other dogs take their place. Over and over again, this has been reported in countries all over the world.
“You say that I ‘found something that supports’ my claims...uh...the names, dates, locations and details of pit bull fatalities. Yes, that information supports my claims”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Anecdotal evidence is not acceptable as proof of a claim. Media reports are flawed in countless ways, which you would already be aware of if you had bothered to read the CDC study I recommended to you! It is, incidentally, the same study dogsb*te uses on their site (bits and pieces, not whole ideas).
“I have recently read an account of a woman trying to pass off her pit bull as a service dog - the college she attends banned her dog noting that no service dog organization certifies pit bulls as service dogs. “>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I call BS. I know for a fact that just recently, the Americans with Disabilities Act had an update. The Department of Justice issued a statement regarding state laws trying to limit the breeds allowed for use as service dogs. You cannot discriminate on someone based on the type of dog they have. It doesn’t matter what your opinion is of the breed, or what your state law says. This trumps it. Each service dog is permitted anywhere its human needs to go, unless the dog acts out in a way that others perceive as a threat. If the dog is behaving normally and doing its job, and someone throws the owner out, they are in violation of the law. Not to mention that, but it clearly states in the ADA’s policy that service dogs do not NEED to be certified, as there is no national certification agency in place. You don’t even need to dress your dog in a service dog vest if you don’t want to. People do a lot because it eliminates the frustration of having to explain why your dog is with you, and some of the places that train the dogs will give the vests to the new owners.
“The breed name was changed in AKC every time it’s vicious unpredictable nature became known so it already has multiple names. “>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry, wrong again. The AKC has never changed the name. It has always been American (The American part was added so as not to confuse this breed with the smaller English Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Staffordshire Terrier, named to distance the dogs bred for show from the UKC dogs that are called American Pit Bull Terriers. Animal shelters in many cities were trying out different names for the dogs (new yorkies, st. francis terriers, etc.) to try and weed out the bad adopters, but they didn’t catch on.
“And pit bull owners, lacking a conscience that would stop them from doing this, freely lie to conceal the identity of their dogs or point to older obsolete names of the dog and claim that the public doesn’t know what it’s talking about or fabric new names like “American Bulldog”.”>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Where are you getting your information? You are flat out wrong again! American Bulldogs are a completely different, much larger breed of dog. They are not registered with the AKC, if that’s why you think they aren’t real. The AKC only registers about half of the dogs that exist in the UKC. They are starting to register these types of dogs, however, and in a few years, American Bulldogs will probably be fully registrable in the AKC.
“Well, I see your strategy, you can’t refute the facts so you attack the messenger.”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nope. I have been researching this issue for a decade before that woman even had her site. I am addressing her bias because you seem to think she is legit, and she is manipulating people under the guise of being a caring person speaking the truth. The fact is, she lies to, manipulates, and takes money from the very people she claims to be helping. This is a personal thing for her, a selfish thing. She is not a public service like you apparently believe.
“You’re still raving because that’s all you have, personal attacks - you can’t refute the body count.”>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have been the only one posting studies from reputable sources. I have been posting study after study, and you have refused to read any of them.
You called me a liar. YOU are the one resorting to it, not me. As for the “body count”, I have been addressing it since the first few lines of my first few posts! I have already asked you over and over to tell me why you have a problem with a breed that has NOT INCREASED THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF FATALITIES since it became popular.
I don’t care how many names and addresses you have, because for all that you have, you DON’T have lots more that never made it to the news, or were only reported locally. If you are simply going to ignore my questions, which are reasonable questions, and insist on defending a site made by a woman you know nearly nothing about, what can be accomplished here? You are unwilling to read what I post, regardless of the fact that what I have is the most reliable, reputable information available, instead choosing to regurgitate the information presented to you from someone else. I have already read everything on that site, years ago when it was first created. I have read every new study that has come out, if I come across it. I read about legislation in cities and states in this country as well as around the world, and I see what has worked and what hasn’t.
I didn’t start out with a pit bull and try to convince everyone how nice it was. I started out hating them, tried to prove to a friend that they were dangerous by using studies, and found none that supported my assertions. I found news reports, sure. I also found that many of the attributes people believe are present in the breed are myths, and I also found out that I didn’t even know what a pit bull looked like. Now, I know better. I was proven wrong, I admitted it, and I am still searching for something that proves I was right years ago. I am not in this with a selfish need to “keep my puppies”. I am doing this because there are a lot of misinformed people out there in high places spreading the wrong message, and it needs to stop, or 25 to 35 people will continue to die each year, and 2 thousand people will continue to be sent to the hospital every single day. I don’t want that, and I am sure you don’t either (I hope you don’t), so why not just read? Heck, if you are still reading, you could have read the CDC study in probably less time, so why not do it? It’s as reputable as they come. The CDC is not biased. They are a group of highly educated individuals that study all kinds of things to improve our quality of life.
“I have yet to see a speck of compassion or responsibility on the part of pit bull owners. I have read many many accounts of pit bull owners fleeing the scene of maulings to avoid having legal or financial responsibility for the damage their dogs do.”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And those are the same owners whose dogs act out because they are not good people. They let their dogs run loose or chain them up....what do you expect them to do? That’s why you don’t hear about dog attacks coming from the homes of veterinarians, trainers, etc. These people are also the ones that say their dog never did that before, and it was a family pet, even though the dog has never seen the inside of a house or learned to sit on command. Why would they tell the truth and say they did nothing with the dog, or that they noticed something wasn’t right but did nothing about it?
“no you cannot refute the video of the woman who’s face is missing”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am not sure I know which video you are referring to, (not saying I don’t believe you) but I do know that the first face transplant was accomplished because of the work of a black lab, not a pit bull. These things happen, unfortunately, because people forget they are dogs. They should not be completely trusted when they are newly adopted. You never know what you are getting when you bring a new dog home, and this lady in France will suffer the rest of her life because she thought the dog was nice.
“Pit bulls are a sad mistake of human vice (dog fighting) and dog genetics. I support the dog specific laws banning breeds that have no place as pets (pits, pit crosses, wolf hybrids, any other breed that has hideous statistics for killing and maiming) because if you only ban the most damaging offender (Pits) then pit bull owners will track down the next most vicious breed. Once all genetically vicious breeds are controlled, I suspect that pit bull owner types will focus on animals that can be trained to be vicious.”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
The UK banned several breeds of dog with this in mind. They have had an increase in attacks since their bans, and now, long after any dogs were grandfathered in and should have died off, they have more pit bulls than they had before the bans...and they are all, 100% owned by criminals, because to own a pit bull now is illegal there. Ban the dogs, only criminals will have them...hm, sounds eerily like the gun control issue.
You are correct that the bad owners will go after another breed, over and over again. The solution? Ban all dogs. Italy had, at one time, 26 different breeds of dogs on their list, including corgis, as this was their mentality. Eventually, they would have no dogs if they kept that up.
Banning the dogs hasn’t helped anywhere it has been done. In Canada, I believe Ontario banned pit bulls, even though there has only been one death by one in the past 45 years, and several from sled-type dogs, which continue to kill every year. What about us? When you take away pit bulls, will you be satisfied that children are being killed by other breeds, as long as they aren’t those? Because that is what will happen. If you don’t hold parents responsible for letting their newborn babies alone in a room with ANY dog, how will they learn? If you allow countless dogs to run loose in the streets or chained up in yards, with no socialization or training, what do you expect will happen? After all, those 19 people that died last year wouldn’t have been saved if there were no pit bulls, but might still be alive if the owners of the dogs involved did what they were supposed to do.
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