In Observance of Black History Month

Wikipedia (in part); Barnes Review (in part); edited by me | Not | Me (mostly)

[K-Stater]

For BHM, I’m gonna watch “Stomp the Yard”, and that cinematic wonder, “Breakin’ 2: Electric Boogaloo.”

No "Shaft"?

[ExGeeEye]

Best tell him them.

At the moment I’ll accept his report as accurate, given his credentials and the liklihood that, if he had let a personal race-based bias bend his conclusions, they should have gone the other way.

http://jhfc.duke.edu/johnhopefranklin/

Oops, he’s dead. So go ahead and attack his research and conclusions, since he can’t rise up and defend them.

[K-Stater]

At the moment I’ll accept his report as accurate, given his credentials and the liklihood that, if he had let a personal race-based bias bend his conclusions, they should have gone the other way.

Then by all means check out the figures for yourself and then tell me that they make sense to you. 1860 Census

If this same professor stated that 78% of all black men today suffer from the effects of slavery on their ancestors would you be so quick to accept his statement? Or would you say, "Whoa, that can't be right" and dig into it yourself?

[K-Stater]

Solely this: Mr. Ellison was a free Black man who himself owned 60+ Black slaves and participated actively not only in their purchase, use, and sale, but also in deliberately causing Black children to be born for the purpose of selling them

At the same time, Mr. Ellison had no rights that a white man was bound to respect. He was not, and could never be a citizen of the U.S., or of the Confederacy had they won their independence. Being a wealthy slave owner didn't change that.

[Rightly Biased]

bttt

[ExGeeEye]

...virtually every black family in the city owned a slave...

Given what I've been learning on the subject, I chouldn't be at all surprised to find that, in as cosmopolitan a town an New Orleans, every free household had at least one domestic slave, and anyone with a business two or more (being much cheaper than hired help).

Yes, I looked at the census link you provided. Doesn't contradict Dr. Franklin, by me.

Thank you for your participation. I will ask, but not demand, that you at least acknowledge that Black agriculture, Black business, Black enterprise of all kinds existed and throve during the slavery era, in part at least because they participated in the institution, and that they voluntarily lent material and personnel support, for pay, to the CSA and its armed forces.

[ExGeeEye]

...78% of all black men today suffer from the effects of slavery...

I should be surprised that wasn't closer to 100%, at least to some degree. There are things in my family history that color my attitudes about things in my own life; why should that be not true of anyone else? The only question is one of degree, and whether there is anyone currently living who is justly to blame.

[ExGeeEye]

Mr. Ellison had no rights that a white man was bound to respect. He was not, and could never be a citizen of the U.S., or of the Confederacy had they won their independence. Being a wealthy slave owner didn't change that.

I will not presently dispute any part of your statement as to accuracy, although I have some cause to question it. Regardless, the absence of rights or citizenship do not seem to have been any impediment to his success.

[K-Stater]

Given what I've been learning on the subject, I chouldn't be at all surprised to find that, in as cosmopolitan a town an New Orleans, every free household had at least one domestic slave, and anyone with a business two or more (being much cheaper than hired help).

Except the white households you mean. After all if 72% of all slaveholders in New Orleans were slaveholders then that would mean only 1100 of the 28,000 or so white families owned slaves, maybe 2 or 3 or 4 percent. Again, does that make sense to you?

Yes, I looked at the census link you provided. Doesn't contradict Dr. Franklin, by me.

If you accept that almost all black families in New Orleans owned slaves and almost none of the white ones did. Personally I find it hard to believe.

I will ask, but not demand, that you at least acknowledge that Black agriculture, Black business, Black enterprise of all kinds existed and throve during the slavery era, in part at least because they participated in the institution, and that they voluntarily lent material and personnel support, for pay, to the CSA and its armed forces.

I will say that there is a grain of truth in what you say, but not to the extent that you apparently believe. I will also say that I expect Black History Month will also me marked with myths and partial truths from both sides of the equation.

[ExGeeEye]

Except the white households you mean.

No I don't. Since you are using that tactic, good-bye.

[GoDuke]

BFL

[K-Stater]

No I don't. Since you are using that tactic, good-bye.

Sorry. No racial bias was implied, certainly not on your part, just simple statistics. There were 4169 slaveholders in Orleans Parish in 1860. According to you about 3000 of them were black. That means 72% of all slave owners in New Orleans were black. There were 149,063 free white people in Orleans Parish compared with fewer than 11,000 free black people. That means fewer than 7% of all free people were black. If there were 32,500 families in Orleans Parish, roughly 4000 of which were black, and if there were 1170 white slave owners, and assuming almost all were family men then, that means according to the statistics you quoted fewer than 4% of all white families owned slaves as opposed to three quarters of all black families. So again I would ask, does that make any sense to you?

[mojitojoe]

.

[mojitojoe]

Sorry. No racial bias was implied,
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