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NC Man Convicted Of Making Counterfeit Coins
wspa ^ | March 18, 2011

Posted on 03/19/2011 12:34:11 PM PDT by BenLurkin

STATESVILLE, NC -- A man from North Carolina was convicted of minting his own currency.

The U.S. Attorney's Office announced Friday afternoon that 67-year old Bernard von NotHaus was convicted of making, possessing and selling his own coins. During the eight day trial, the U.S. Attorney's Office said the investigation into NotHaus' activities began in 2005 and involved minting of coins worth an estimated $7 million.

The U.S. Attorney's Office said the coins were made to resemble United States coins and that the Liberty Dollar coins were intended to be used as counterfeit money. NotHaus was the founder of a group called NORFED, also known as the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code.

It took jurors less than two hours to deliberate NotHaus' guilt and he faces a 15 years in prison when sentenced.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: gutlessjury; jbts; libertydollar; nothaus

1 posted on 03/19/2011 12:34:14 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: BenLurkin

I don’t think anyone is going to confuse gold and silver coins with his phone number on them as government coins.

BTW, if the coins are real gold and silver how could they possibly be considered counterfeit?


2 posted on 03/19/2011 12:37:29 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: BenLurkin

The joke is on Bernard von NotHaus,
in the last few weeks the spread between government silver coinage and private label silver coinage has all but disappeared for the first time since the French tried to return to the gold standard in the years leading up to WWI.

Bernard von NotHaus was ahead of the curve and could have been printing decorative, commerative, or even blank rounds and come out as a leader in the world’s PM backed currency movement. Instead he’s looking at a lifetime of appeals, jail, and destitution.


3 posted on 03/19/2011 12:38:13 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: BenLurkin

Supposedly, Liberty Dollars are denominated by weight and backed by a commodity.

That doesn’t sound like any circulating U.S. currency so it’s hard to see that this is counterfeiting.


4 posted on 03/19/2011 12:38:25 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: GeronL

“Von NotHaus designed the Liberty Dollar currency in 1998 and the Liberty coins were marked with the ‘$,’ the words ‘dollar,’ ‘USA,’ ‘Liberty,’ ‘Trust in God’ (instead of ‘In God We Trust’) and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coinage.

IMHO, he screwed up using the dollar sign ‘$’ and using the word ‘dollar’, the rest of the charges were easily contestable.

More detailed article:
http://gata.org/node/9715


5 posted on 03/19/2011 12:42:35 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: BenLurkin

I think they said “$20” right on them. That’s crossing the line.


6 posted on 03/19/2011 12:43:18 PM PDT by chopperman
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To: BenLurkin

I guess the FED doesn’t like competition.


7 posted on 03/19/2011 12:44:12 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: GeronL
"BTW, if the coins are real gold and silver how could they possibly be considered counterfeit?"

It's not the fact that he was selling gold or silver coins that's problematic. What's problematic is that the coins do bear some similarity to actual US coins. If he would have stamped Snoopy or Bugs Bunny on the coins, he wouldn't have been convicted.

The government alleged and argued (amongst other things) that the coins looked too similar to actual currency. The jurors agreed.

8 posted on 03/19/2011 12:44:45 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: BenLurkin

Amazingly, the Feds have used this case to extend the definition of “domestic terrorist” to include a guy that mints 0.999 fine silver “rounds” and encourages others to use them in trade. The guy’s fraud was not related to the weight and purity of his minted rounds, but to the allegation that the rounds could be confused US coinage.

It is perhaps justified for a national government to protect its monopoly on seignorage by imprisoning and confiscating the wealth of private citizens that threaten its seignorage privilege. However, for the Feds to call this guy’s actions “domestic terrorism” is a real stretch, and strongly suggestive of just how scared the government is that its massive and multiple Ponzi schemes are about to collapse.


9 posted on 03/19/2011 12:44:53 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: OldDeckHand

Jurors will agree to all kinds of stupid things.


10 posted on 03/19/2011 12:45:39 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: JerseyHighlander
"IMHO, he screwed up using the dollar sign ‘$’ and using the word ‘dollar’, the rest of the charges were easily contestable."

That seems accurate, especially considering he was only found guilty on the counterfeiting charges, and not guilty on the other charges.

11 posted on 03/19/2011 12:46:18 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: GeronL

Amazingly, the Feds have used this case to extend the definition of “domestic terrorist” to include a guy that mints 0.999 fine silver “rounds” and encourages others to use them in trade. The guy’s fraud was not related to the weight and purity of his minted rounds, but to the allegation that the rounds could be confused with US coinage.

It is perhaps justified for a national government to protect its monopoly on seignorage by imprisoning and confiscating the wealth of private citizens that threaten its seignorage privilege. However, for the Feds to call this guy’s actions “domestic terrorism” is a real stretch, and strongly suggestive of just how scared the government is that its massive and multiple Ponzi schemes are about to collapse.


12 posted on 03/19/2011 12:47:40 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: BenLurkin

NotHaus was the founder of a group called NORFED...

Nice low profile.../s


13 posted on 03/19/2011 12:50:50 PM PDT by G Larry
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To: Skepolitic

bttt


14 posted on 03/19/2011 12:50:50 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: BenLurkin

I’d buy and take silver (.999 fine) blanks over any US coin.


15 posted on 03/19/2011 12:51:19 PM PDT by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White.)
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To: OldDeckHand

What’s that company that sells all sorts of silver and gold coins that really look like US coins? How do they get away with it?


16 posted on 03/19/2011 12:52:52 PM PDT by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White.)
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To: ReverendJames
"What’s that company that sells all sorts of silver and gold coins that really look like US coins? How do they get away with it?"

You know, I really am not familiar with the company your referring to. You might be referring to the "Franklin Mint". While I'm no numismatic authority, I believe that private company does enjoy license rights from the US government (and other governments) to issue commemorative US coins. In other words, they have legal permission.

17 posted on 03/19/2011 12:58:04 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: Skepolitic

I thought we were free to trade gold and silver amongst outrselves. Isn’t gold and silver “legal tender” by default?


18 posted on 03/19/2011 1:01:12 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: OldDeckHand

Okay, yeah, it’s the Franklin Mint I was thinking of. Thanks.


19 posted on 03/19/2011 1:01:21 PM PDT by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White.)
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To: JerseyHighlander

I thought the definition of “dollar” was something like 132.7 grains of gold or whatever?


20 posted on 03/19/2011 1:01:50 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: GeronL
"I thought we were free to trade gold and silver amongst outrselves.

You can. In fact, you can even create your own "legal tender". Casinos all over the country do just that. There are many resort municipalities that have their own "currency" that is unique to those towns.

This guy ran into problems because he created a coin that looked too similar to an actual US coin. Like I said, it's not the coin itself that's the problem (or the fact that it's gold), it's its appearance that caused him legal grief.

"Isn’t gold and silver “legal tender” by default?"

It can be, but it's not US legal tender.

21 posted on 03/19/2011 1:08:19 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: GeronL

The question you ask is a good one and I just don’t have the answer, there are PM bugs out there who have written treatises on the lack of a legal definition of the word “dollar” in the US Legal Code, however I’m not well versed enough in it to respond.

About 10 years ago someone on FR posted a link to this guy:
Jim Ewart, President, Principia Publishing, Inc.
He wrote a book on the subject that is well regarded.
“Money – Ye shall have honest weights and measures”


22 posted on 03/19/2011 1:08:55 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: Skepolitic

So the Federal Reserve was jealous of the quality of his coins!!!


23 posted on 03/19/2011 1:09:44 PM PDT by phockthis
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To: GeronL
I thought the definition of “dollar” was something like 132.7 grains of gold or whatever?

Are you serious? As a matter of fact, the dollar has had no connection, absolutely no connection, to any quantity of precious metal in any way since Nixon unilaterally terminated the Bretton Woods system in 1971. This ended any convertibility of the US dollar to gold. At that time only foreign central banks had the ability to convert their dollar holdings to gold because private ownership of gold by US citizens was made illegal in 1933.

The definition of the US dollar is whatever the Federal Reserve says it is. According to Ben Bernanke, who ought to know what he's talking about, "my definition of the dollar is what it can buy".

Helicopter Ben went on, "Consumers don't want to buy gold. They want to buy food and gasoline and clothes and other things in the consumer basket, and it is the buying power in terms of goods and services that is important."

That is the only practical definition of the dollar. It is a faith-based currency, merely a unit of account consisting of one hundred cents. There are only two reasons that anybody would accept a dollar in payment or hold a dollar for the future. First, they are legal tender for payment of taxes and contractural obligations denominated in dollars. Second, there is almost universal faith that somebody else will accept dollars in return for future goods and services.

A Google search will yield a number of other dubious definitions, but if you try to use them you'll end up like Bernard von NotHaus.

24 posted on 03/19/2011 1:49:38 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: Skepolitic

I am usually not too serious.


25 posted on 03/19/2011 1:58:57 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: JerseyHighlander
in the last few weeks the spread between government silver coinage and private label silver coinage has all but disappeared for the first time since the French tried to return to the gold standard in the years leading up to WWI.

I'm pretty sure the French were on the gold standard in August 1914. Did you mean WWII?

26 posted on 03/19/2011 2:15:42 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin (A trillion here, a trillion there, soon you're NOT talking real money)
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To: BenLurkin; All

Confusion indeed. His liberty dollars, since they are pinned to the price of silver or gold, are inflation proof. We can’t have that, it might remind or wake up the populace to the fact that their ‘money’ has been tokenized and is now a fiat currency backed by nothing, worth only what you can trade it for, and that my friends is shrinking by the day.


27 posted on 03/19/2011 2:20:39 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber! (50 million and counting in Afghanistan and Iraq))
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To: BenLurkin
See also Liberty Dollar Creator found guilty on two counts. This is not a criticism or complaint.
28 posted on 03/19/2011 2:22:22 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin (A trillion here, a trillion there, soon you're NOT talking real money)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

I was talking about 1890’s, when the Long Depression and deflation in France caused a collapse in confidence in the French Government and French business and the value of silver coinage and silver rounds were of equal value by weight.

The US Mint allows private mints like the Franklin Mint to produce silver coinage at a premium to spot (averaging about 10% to 11% over long term) , for years the coinage from these private mints was valued above rounds and below US Mint coinage. In the last month there has been a complete breakdown of the spreads, a US Silver Dollar and a one ounce Silver round of same purity are almost at the same spot price when bought in bulk. Private mints receiving almost no premium on the market compared to blank rounds.

It’s a disturbing break from longstanding trend lines that many silver bugs are proclaiming as the beginning of the end of several fiat currency systems, but they proclaim that pretty often about just about any event that suits their world view.


29 posted on 03/19/2011 2:31:24 PM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: Skepolitic
Amazingly, the Feds have used this case to extend the definition of “domestic terrorist” to include a guy that mints 0.999 fine silver “rounds” and encourages others to use them in trade. The guy’s fraud was not related to the weight and purity of his minted rounds, but to the allegation that the rounds could be confused with US coinage.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said.

Sweat, Bernanke.

30 posted on 03/19/2011 2:35:41 PM PDT by Grut
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To: Grut
“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said.

Sweat, Bernanke.

Sweat, goldbugs is more like it.

By purchasing and hoarding gold, silver, other precious metals, and coins containing such metals, goldbugs are in demonstrating a lack of faith in faith-based Federal Reserve Notes. Many are also openly encouraging others to do so. This clearly undermines the legitimate currency of this country.

Applying Ms. Tompkins logic, they are all domestic terrorist. PATRIOT Act for you, suk'kahs. Heck, if Lieberman gets his way the goldbugs would even forfeit their citizenship and the President could have them assassinated.

Sound crazy? Yes, it does. But it also sounds crazy to equate striking 0.999 silver rounds with "domestic terrorism", and Federal officials have already done this.

31 posted on 03/19/2011 3:31:43 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: Skepolitic

The Bernake will broach no competition. I’m surprised that there are so many here that actually applaud the Police State’s claim of terrorism ..... pretty sad.


32 posted on 03/23/2011 9:45:08 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: iopscusa

Well, lots of conservatives still think that the US government is correctly characterized as a constitutional republic and have faith in its institutions. They still believe what they learned in 9th grade civics class, think that the Constitution (as amended) is something other than a dead letter, and trust that Republicans, at least, represent their interests rather than those of the ruling elite. They are like sheep and the USG is their good shepherd.


33 posted on 03/23/2011 10:36:22 AM PDT by Skepolitic
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