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To: raygun
Let's pretend that your condescending insults aren't a disgrace to your allegedly Christian witness and pass to the substance of your argument: your assumption is that John 5:24 describes an exclusive set of circumstances that bind God's hands.

I would point out that while someone who follows this verse's instructions is following the right path, it does not mean (a) that God is constrained from working His will in any other way and (b) that the person who hears, believes and is regenerated does so on their own merit apart from God's grace.

109 posted on 06/04/2011 4:36:53 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake; svcw; Mad Dawg
I think its pretty freakin' clear what it says. The question boils down to: Does the Spirit actually say what He means, and does He mean what He says?

From A.T. Roberts:

Hath eternal life (echei zôên aiônion). Has now this spiritual life which is endless. See Joh 3:36. In verses Jos 5:15,15 Jesus speaks of spiritual life and spiritual death. In this passage (Joh 5:21-29) Jesus speaks now of physical life and death, now of spiritual, and one must notice carefully the quick transition. In Re 20:14 we have the phrase "the second death" with which language compare Re 20:4-6. But hath passed out of death into life (alla metabebêken ek tou thanatou eis tên zôên). Perfect active indicative of metabainô, to pass from one place or state to another. Out of spiritual death into spiritual life and so no judgement (krisis).
To hear, in this place, evidently denotes not the outward act of hearing, but to receive in a proper manner; to suffer it to make its proper impression on the mind; to obey. The word hear is often used in this sense, Mat 11:15; Jno 8:47; Act 3:23. Many persons outwardly hear the gospel who neither understand nor obey it.

My word, i.e., my doctrine, my teaching'. All that Jesus taught about himself, as well as about the Father.

On him that sent me. On the Father, who, in the plan of redemption, is represented as sending his Son to save men. See Jno 3:17. Faith in God, who sent his Son, is here represented as being connected with everlasting life; but there can be no faith in him who sent his Son, without faith also in him who is sent. The belief of one of the true doctrines of religion is connected with, and will lead to, the belief of all.

Hath everlasting life. The state of man by nature is represented as death in sin, Eph 2:1. The dead regard not anything. They are unaffected by the cares, pleasures, amusements of the world. They hear neither the voice of merriment nor the tread of the living over their graves. So with sinners. They are unmoved with the things of religion. They hear not the voice of God; they see not his loveliness; they care not for his threatenings. The Christian lives with God, and feels and acts as if there was a God. The happiness of heaven is living unto God--being sensible of his presence, and glory, and power--and rejoicing in that. There shall be no more death there, Rev 21:4. This life, or this religion, whether on earth or in heaven, is the same--the same joys extended and expanded for ever. Hence, when a man is converted, it is said that he has everlasting life; not merely shall have, but is already in possession of that life or happiness which shall be everlasting. It is life begun, expanded, ripening for the skies. He has already entered on his inheritance--that inheritance which is everlasting.

Shall not come into condemnation. He was by nature under condemnation. See Jno 3:18. Here it is declared that he shall not return to that state, or he will not be again condemned. This promise is sure; it is made by the Son of God, and there is no one that can pluck them out of his hand, Jno 10:28. Comp. See Barnes for Rev 8:1.

{v} "passed from death" I Jno 3:14

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8,9)
For by grace (têi gar chariti) explanatory reason as already declared in Eph 2:5 (which see) [By grace have ye been saved (chariti este sesôsmenoi) Instrumental case of chariti and perfect passive periphrastic indicative of sôzô. Parenthetical clause interjected in the sentence. All of grace because we were dead...] and so with the article. Through faith (dia pisteôs), he adds in repeating what he said in Eph 2:5 to make it plainer. "Grace" is God's part, "faith" ours.

And that (kai touto), neuter, not feminine tautê, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows here that salvation does not have its source (ex humôn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dôron) and not the result of our work.

The faith we are to have is in Jesus Christ's attoning work upon the cross, as only He - God in hypostatic union with Man - is able to legally satisfy God's requirement of infinite punishement for transgression against His infinite holy righteousness. It akin to jumping from a burning high rise with the faith that the firemen have placed a suitable airbag to break your fall (you not being able to see the airbag prior to jumping) contrasted to the certain death that awaits if one doesn't jump. From whence comes one's salvation in that regard? Is it faith or the airbag? Obviously it is the airbag that saves you (as Christ died on the cross), but without your faith that an airbag is present (we can't see Christ hanging on the cross), one would surely die withou faith in the integrity of the firewman (or the phycical robustenss of the airbag). This is explicitely presented by Jesus to Nicodemus in Jno 3:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
He points to an account in the Old Testament whereby at God’s command Moses raised upon a pole a brazen serpent, whereupon any Jews in the wilderness who had been bitten by a deadly fiery serpent (sent as judgment by God because of the people’s rebelliousness), would be physically saved. This is an important prelude to the verses that come immediately thereafter, and is extremely important concerning the significance and meaning of Jno 3:16. The ordeal by the Jews in the wilderness itself was a punishment delivered by God as judgment (the fiery serpents also sent in judgment). Satan is referred to as being a serpent, and indeed a serpent was instrumental behind Adam and Eve’s fall whereby sin became manifest in the world.

The brass serpent lifted by Moses is seen as being a shadow of the cross, and of all the types of Calvary portrayed in the Old Testament, this is the clearest one. in face of the people’s extremely dire predicament (a great many people were being killed by the fiery serpents), their solution was to have Moses pray to God that the fiery serpents would be removed from them. However, that solution is essentially defunct (and as is characteristic of man in general was extremely shortsighted), in that it there would be no value whatsoever to those who had been bitten. What is illustrated here is the essential benefit of salvation: in that it is not intrinsically for the fit and healthy, but for the sick and needy, especially those under wrath and under the sentence of death. All a person bitten by a fiery serpent had to do was look at the brazen serpent and live.

God’s perfect solution to the Israelite’s problem was a transaction utilizing an icon representing the very thing causing death. And so a replica of a fiery serpent was fashioned onto a pole to be raised up for everybody to gaze upon. The replica of the serpent hoisted by Moses was utterly harmless. Scripture tells us that “sin entered the world, and death by sin” (Gen 2:17; 3;6; Rom 5:12), and “for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin” (Isa 53:6,9,12; II Cor 5:21). Moreover, the serpent was made of brass; brass is typical of judgment. In the tabernacle, the altar of brass held the sacrifice for sin. In Revelation, when our Lord is prepared to return in judgment, He is described as having feet like fine brass. God told the Israelites that if they sinned, Heaven above would be like brass. Samson and Zede-kiah were both bound with brass, which held them as a fetter, fast for judgment. And yet, the efficacy of the whole transaction depended upon the hoisting of the serpent upon a pole. Nothing else would do.

Certainly the bitten could have walked passed such a replica. Certainly the replica could have been carried to those who were too ill to approach it. God’s plan in Numbers 21 suggests no such thing was possible. And Christ’s reference to Moses hoisting the brazen serpent affirms that: “…even so must the Son of man be lifted up.”

Jewish law provided for death by stoning, but Christ stoned to death could not save; He must be hanged on the cross. Why? Because of two curses in the Old Testament. One declares, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Gal 3:10), a quotation of Deu 27:26.

May that curse light on Christ? In righteousness–no! In grace–yes! The law could not righteously curse the perfectly obedient One. It could only bless and reward Him.

Yet there was one way in which the curse of the law might fix upon the Righteous One. That way was under another law which pronounced one mode of death accursed. "He that is hanged is accursed of God" (Deu 21:23), and "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree" (Gal 3:13)

Take note of the exceedingly harsh terms imposed by God whereby Moses’ people would be rescued from the fiery serpents (a wrath from God that they brought upon themselves – and while still under a judgment):

  1. When the serpent of brass was formed and put it upon the pole, it was complete. They were to rely entirely on the sufficiency of God’s promise that anybody bitten by a fiery serpent that looked at it would live.
  2. They were not told to look at the wounds the fiery serpents caused. That would have been about as useful as somebody looking at their syphilis sore expecting to be healed by seeing the sore. Even without treatment in the latter case, the sore eventually goes away (there are still a few more stages before the final manifestation of the disease).
  3. They were not told to look at Moses. They had been looking to him, crying to him, but still the fiery serpents killed them in great numbers. The law could not save anybody then, and it saves nobody now.
  4. They were not told to shake off the serpents that had fastened upon them, any more than practicing proper hygiene and food handling cures botulism in the chef after the chef became ill.
  5. They were not told to go through some ritual. The Jews in Moses time had all kinds of rituals. It didn’t help them, just as rituals and ceremonies are ineffectual today.
  6. The Israelite was not told to minister to others in order that his own life might be saved. Dressing the sores of, and comforting the syphilis patient will not cure your own syphilis
And so the efficicacy of our faith is in God's promise that Jesus being hoisted up would be as the brazen serpent. It is by His grace that faith is efficatious; it being such a small thing to count for great of a blessing. Eph 2:8b makes it clear that God's grace to accept faith in Jesus attoning work is a gift. What strings are attached to gifts? Is a birthday gift owed to anybody? If so its not a birthday gift, but a birthday wage.

Furthermore, there is no obligation in neither bestowing, nor receiving any gift. But wages are owed and are duely recieved as a matter of law; the wages of sin are death. No faith is necessary there.

140 posted on 06/05/2011 12:45:36 PM PDT by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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