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M1 rifle ammo

Posted on 06/17/2011 4:41:00 PM PDT by MileHi

More about M1 food


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: banglist; garand; m1
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Springfield Armory says that commercial 150 gr loads are fine in my 2003 vintage Garrand. The man said they would stand behind the rifle even though I am not the original buyer.

Two things about that:

That goes against a lot of good advice.

That is damn good customer service if they will replace a bent op rod based on that advice. I don't want to send them my rifle in any case, what a pain.

It would be nice if that is so, surplus ammo ain't getting any cheaper. Rem Core-Loct 150 can be had pretty reasonable. It specs at about +200 fps over Greek surplus.

I have an adjustable plug, haven't tried it yet.

What say you who have these rifles

1 posted on 06/17/2011 4:41:02 PM PDT by MileHi
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To: MileHi

I would get something in writing from SA covering what you were told. If you fire that commercial stuff and end up injured, you’ve got some recourse.

Then I’d stock up on the mil-surp fodder, and learn to reload if you don’t already know how. The Garand is a fine rifle but it’s never a good idea to stretch things beyond design specs too often.


2 posted on 06/17/2011 4:46:06 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: MileHi

You can get Greek surplus from CMP for about 1/2 the price of commercial ammo.


3 posted on 06/17/2011 4:46:38 PM PDT by CarmichaelPatriot
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To: Lurker

That is my concern, although I think a bent op rod is the worst case.

I just need to go mess with the gas plug I guess.


4 posted on 06/17/2011 4:49:09 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi; Eaker
That is my concern, although I think a bent op rod is the worst case.

I think Eaker might have a slightly different opinion of "worst case".

5 posted on 06/17/2011 4:50:50 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: CarmichaelPatriot

No really, most surplus seems to be about a buck a shot (plus shipping), standard commercial is about 2/3 that and in every WalMart etc around.


6 posted on 06/17/2011 4:52:04 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Lurker; Eaker

Yes he does, although I don’t think anyone solved the cause of that.

That is also why I am leary despite the assurance of SA.


7 posted on 06/17/2011 4:54:44 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Squantos; archy

Thoughts?

There are others and I don’t have screen names at hand.


8 posted on 06/17/2011 4:56:44 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

I reload almost all my ammo and when I feed the M1A I make sure I stay within the velocities and pressures recommended. I just don’t want to risk any damage to a fine rifle.

I think you’re wise to be a bit cautious about what SA told you even tho they’re a fine company, even if they put it in writing.

So I think the best advice I can give you is stick with the recommended ammunition or reload it yourself. You can save some money that way.

Wish I could do better, but that’s all I got.


9 posted on 06/17/2011 4:57:55 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker

I bought a bunch of Lake City 3006 milsurp over a decade ago when it was cheap and I still had the wherewithall to do it. Including a small, but much prized load of original Lake City black tip. Nasty stuff for thin-skinned vehicles and such.

An eve nbetter score was a sizeable amount of Lake City match primed cases that I bought about the same time , along with a similar quantity of 30 cal black tip projectile pulls.

Haven’t shot Mr. Garand in a while. It shoots way better than I do, that’s for sure.


10 posted on 06/17/2011 4:57:55 PM PDT by Noumenon ("One man with courage is a majority." - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: MileHi
Buy now because Obama banned them.
11 posted on 06/17/2011 4:58:08 PM PDT by mountainlion (The time to be on guard against tyranny is before it has gotten you Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Noumenon
It shoots way better than I do, that’s for sure.

That's true of most of my weapons as well. LOL

12 posted on 06/17/2011 4:59:29 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: MileHi
"I just need to go mess with the gas plug I guess."

Don't get in a hurry to do anything like this. It is wise to keep the ammo as close to original M2 ball spec as possible. The good news is that most of the common 150 grain under 2950 fps ammo is pretty darned close. The Springfield folks aren't dummies.

What WILL cause you problems OVER TIME is heavier bullets and/or slower "magnum" type powders that raise the pressure at the barrel end. This gives the op rod a "hammer blow" instead of a more desirable "gentle push".

13 posted on 06/17/2011 5:00:56 PM PDT by labette ( Humble student of Thinkology)
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To: Lurker

What is your pet load for 150gr pills? I would be fine with refilling brass for it.


14 posted on 06/17/2011 5:01:53 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: labette
The good news is that most of the common 150 grain under 2950 fps ammo is pretty darned close.

There you go. The surplus is about 2700, most commercial is about 2900, which SA acknowledged. They only advise against heavier pills. My reading says the pressure curve is really the issue.

15 posted on 06/17/2011 5:06:48 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

I don’t shoot the M1, I’ve got an M1A and use only the 168 gr Sierra BTHP Match bullets. But I keep them right around 2600 fps so as to keep the pressures down. I could push them faster, but the rifle isn’t built to take that.

When I don’t have those I use the 146 gr. FMJ stuff from Winchester. That’s just about an exact match for the mil-surp stuff.


16 posted on 06/17/2011 5:08:18 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: MileHi

I guess what I should have said more simply . . .

Is that there are a ton of old surplus rifle and ammo combinations that truly scare me.

Plain Jane 150 grain Remingtons in a caliber 30 M1 Garand does not scare me as long as it is structurally sound and head spaced OK.


17 posted on 06/17/2011 5:15:29 PM PDT by labette ( Humble student of Thinkology)
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To: MileHi
That is my concern, although I think a bent op rod is the worst case.

I think the worst case for "high gas-port pressure" is "heel of the receiver breaks off and the rifle bolt embeds itself in your right eye".

18 posted on 06/17/2011 5:18:08 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Lurker
I don’t shoot the M1, I’ve got an M1A ...

HA! Well, along with a few politicians, a SOCOM is on my bucket list. This Garrand was a gift, and a damn fine unused one at that. So I don't want to break it. Still, going to the Rockies next weekend to hang in the forest and create empty brass and try out truck parts. (;0)

19 posted on 06/17/2011 5:22:17 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

I have piles of this stuff, both my M1 and my 1903 love it shoot it fine...

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/449.php


20 posted on 06/17/2011 5:22:53 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: MileHi

The pressure at the gas port is the most important thing.


21 posted on 06/17/2011 5:23:27 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: MileHi

The pressure at the gas port is the most important thing.


22 posted on 06/17/2011 5:23:28 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: labette; DuncanWaring
I meant to agree, though see the next post.

SA says OK and yet so many are adamant. Is the difference the WWII rifles vs later ones like my ‘03 rifle?

23 posted on 06/17/2011 5:27:23 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

I was just thinking of a trade I made in 1966 which makes one realize just how much ammo has gone up. It must have increased much faster than guns.

I traded a dealer (who was a coon hunter and really wanted my Colt) a Colt Challenger for an 03A3 Springfield and 1000 rounds of Lake City Match.

The Challenger was basically a Woodsman with plastic grips. It was a nice pistol but that ammo alone would probably be worth $500 now.


24 posted on 06/17/2011 5:28:24 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: MileHi
HA! Well, along with a few politicians, a SOCOM is on my bucket list.

Mines a very early 5 digit National Match model that I've glass bedded in a fine tiger birch stock and topped with a 2nd Gen SA Rangefinding scope. It shoots way, way better than I ever will.

This Garrand was a gift, and a damn fine unused one at that. So I don't want to break it.

You have some darned nice friends. That weapon was responsible for the demise of tens of thousands of the enemies of freedom and liberty. It's a damn same they ended up winning from within, ain't it?

I'd keep that thing fed the proper fodder or as close to it as you can get. You may need to use it for one or two of those other items on your bucket list some day.

25 posted on 06/17/2011 5:28:33 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Noumenon
....along with a similar quantity of 30 cal black tip projectile pulls

What if one had a quantity of black tips that weren't 'pulls'?

26 posted on 06/17/2011 5:28:46 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: DuncanWaring
Damn. A bent op rod is one thing. A broken receiver does not speak well for the rifle itself.
27 posted on 06/17/2011 5:29:46 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Thanks!


28 posted on 06/17/2011 5:31:43 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

This is making the rounds:


Dear Mr. Rawles,  
I enjoyed R.W.L.’s recent post, “Prioritizing My Prepping”, and noted the choice of the venerable M1 Garand as the MBR of choice. Though the M1 is a terrific choice for this role (”the finest battle implement ever devised” per Gen. Patton), those new to the rifle should keep a couple of critical things in mind when deciding to acquire their very useful piece of history.   Standardization of ammo throughout one’s battery can be a beneficial goal, but be aware that all .30-06 is not equal when it comes to the Garand. The M1’s gas system is designed specifically for the pressures generated by the military M2 ball round, and can be damaged or destroyed by higher pressures generated by many commonly-available hunting loads. I’ve never seen it, but have read that in severe cases this problem can lead to the injury or death of the shooter. Of course, though .30-06 ammo is ubiquitous, the available M2 ball will eventually disappear, as no major modern armies are using it. Federal makes a round to M2 Ball spec under the American Eagle label, but it hovers around $1.00 per round.

The answer is to purchase an “adjustable gas plug” for each of your M1 rifles. Several are available - I’m familiar with the “Schuster DCM Adjustable Gas Plug”, which can be had from any major shooting outfit for around $35. By adjusting this plug you can allow over-pressure to escape before impinging on the Operating [”Op”] Rod, the face of which doubles as the gas piston. You must waste a few rounds to make this adjustment, but it is well worth it when shooting non-M2 ammo! For the record, though very similar to the Garand, the M14 (M1A in civilian form), in 7.62 NATO, is much more tolerant of this problem because of the free-floating gas piston inherent in the design.  

Also, if you plan to use the M1 Garand indefinitely, make sure to acquire plenty of en bloc clips. Without them it is a rather heavy single-shot rifle (as is true for any semi-auto rifle without a magazine as well. I’ve just found that it’s easier to lose clips than magazines!). I would also recommend purchasing one or two of the specially-designed 5 round clips for legal hunting during “normal” times. They are available at the big shooting supply outfits.  

A final note: many “spare parts” lists can be found for the M1, with all the usual suspects: firing pin, extractor, ejector, etc. The one part that I’ve had to replace most often in CMP Garands is the clip ejector spring. They’re cheap, so it wouldn’t hurt to get one. A clip stuck in the receiver considerably slows the re-load process. And besides, you don’t get to hear that famous “ping”!  

Thank you for all you do. I apologize for boring the millions of experienced M1 Garand lovers out there. - S.H. in Georgia

JWR Replies: That is all good advice. My only proviso would be that rather than try to tune a Garand gas system for different bullet weights, I recommend just sticking to M2 Ball or duplication loads, thereof. Granted, you can fiddle with an adjustable gas system and get a Garand to work with lower or higher grain bullet weights. But with original operating rods now worth $130 to $220, why put yours at risk? It doesn’t take much to to bend an op rod, and once it is bent, it useless and probably beyond repair. (A “slightly bent” op rod is like a young lady being “a little bit pregnant.”) A bent op rod represents an expensive mistake if it happens in present day circumstances. But even worse, it means being without a functioning rifle if it happens after the Schumer Hits The Fan. My advice: Don’t risk it.


29 posted on 06/17/2011 5:33:01 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Farmer Dean

That seems to be the point.


30 posted on 06/17/2011 5:33:11 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

bookmark.


31 posted on 06/17/2011 5:41:26 PM PDT by Carlucci (Don't care what religion my president is, as long as he worships -- THE CONSTITUTION!)
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To: yarddog

I had some very good deals in retrospect, and still have them. Haven’t seen a “good deal” in 15 or so years.

Wish I had an 03A3, but I do have a very nice Swede 38 I got for $85 some years ago. Bank vaults are not better made.


32 posted on 06/17/2011 6:05:58 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

Nothing over 168 grain and 150 was toyed around with in vintage days.

Your rifle will be fine.

Now if you had a sweet New M1A Springfield you could shoot whatever you want.

I ran 4,000 round of So. Africa, Argentine, Nato, etc and even those stell cassing Russian stuff before I cleaned it.

No problemo and WILL be the gun I grab in SHTF.


33 posted on 06/17/2011 6:06:27 PM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Lurker

Yeah Baby!

I love my M1A!


34 posted on 06/17/2011 6:09:15 PM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Vendome

I’ve got a very early model, with all TRW parts, factory stamped with “NM” on the barrel and sights. I’m wondering if your information is still applicable. Do you have any idea?


35 posted on 06/17/2011 6:14:43 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker
It's a damn same they ended up winning from within, ain't it?

Sure the hell is. Lets don't allow a period on that, eh?

36 posted on 06/17/2011 6:15:38 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Lurker

Don’t know.

Mine is circa 2008 and I’ve seen lots of crazy claims about my baby.

Tested em.

Dropped in water, fired fine.

Dropped in Sand, no problemo.

Dropped in Mud, all okay. (that was what caused me to clean it and I had wanted to clean it anyway. I clean my guns each time I use them but wanted to test it out for reliability.)


37 posted on 06/17/2011 6:19:27 PM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: MileHi

Yes those Swedish Mausers are fine. I once had my neighbor who was a dealer, order six of them. I was surprised that one, I think it was stamped 1897, was made in Oberndorf and had the Mauser banner. Until then I didn’t know any were made outside Sweden.

For some reason the Swedish Mausers shoot more accurately than any other of the old rifles.

The most beautifully made rifle I have ever owned was a 1909 Argentine Mauser made by DWM. I bought it unfired with the original test target. Walter Craig in Selma, Al. got in a bunch of them. When it arrived both the dealer and I were amazed by the quality.


38 posted on 06/17/2011 6:28:24 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: ctdonath2
Good post, and it gets us back to my point.

The issue of heavier bullets seems a given. However 150gr loads are common and cheaper than the Greek surplus and factory tailored loads. SA said 150 loads are OK for my 2003 vintage, I did not ask about WWII era rifles. I have a Schuster plug and need to try it. Still, common ammo that will work would be a good thing. The answer may well be the plug with marks for commercial and surplus ammo. Only need time (and ammo) to experiment. Clips are worth collecting and I am.

39 posted on 06/17/2011 6:33:07 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Vendome
SOCOM is on my to-do list.
40 posted on 06/17/2011 6:36:28 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

Just to make things clear...

Are you talking about a M1 Garand in .30-06 or s Springfield M1A in .308 Winchester?


41 posted on 06/17/2011 6:46:36 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: yarddog
When it arrived both the dealer and I were amazed by the quality.

Same with the Swede, which was supposed to be a cheap truck gun. When it showed up the dealer almost wouldn't turn loose of it.

For some reason the Swedish Mausers shoot more accurately than any other of the old rifles.

Bank vault craftsmanship! And the 6.5 140gr pill is a very good design as far as BC/sectional density.

42 posted on 06/17/2011 6:47:21 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MediaMole

A 2003 vintage Garrand 30.06.


43 posted on 06/17/2011 6:48:55 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

Got a couple of Swede ‘96’s. Not fired much but beautiful rifles. Very effective with the high ballistic coefficient. Wish I had known more about them when they were plentiful, as I would have bought a dozen.


44 posted on 06/17/2011 7:07:42 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: USMCPOP
Wish I had known more about them when they were plentiful, as I would have bought a dozen.

No doubt! Me and some friends ordered some $89 rifles for truck guns. They showed up near new 36 Calvary rifles that were too nice to beat up. They are fine rifles that shoot better than many new high dollar sporters. The 140 6.5 kills better than the numbers would indicate. I believe the 6.5 project for the AR is on the right track.

45 posted on 06/17/2011 7:19:27 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: USMCPOP

Dammmit.

Just saw your tag line. Sorry for your loss, thank you for your son.

Happy Fathers Day.


46 posted on 06/17/2011 7:24:02 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Vendome
Mine is circa 2008 and I’ve seen lots of crazy claims about my baby.

So have I. But, I didn't get to be an old dog by believing what I hear. LOL. So I stay on the cautious side of things and keep well inside the published specs. I did roll up some of those Barnes teflon coated copper jobs, but I eased back on the Reloader 12 to make sure I keep 'em under 2600.

I haven't fired any of them out of the SA, but I pushed a few out of an Ishapore Enfield I have just to check the velocity. They're right about where I want them, but I don't have any way to check the pressure curve.

So, they're just sitting there, waiting for a rainy day.

47 posted on 06/17/2011 7:24:34 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: MileHi

Thanks. Good boy he was. Kinda lost without him, but these things happen.


48 posted on 06/17/2011 8:01:34 PM PDT by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: Lurker

I am not an expert but, what I did was search long and hard for good information. I even talked to Springfield.

I only recall them saying this gun will take any load commercially available.


49 posted on 06/17/2011 9:23:09 PM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Gaffer
What if one had a quantity of black tips that weren't 'pulls'?

As in never loaded? All to the good if you can put them on top of the right sort of propellant. The pulls I have are very clean, little or no marking.

50 posted on 06/17/2011 9:30:18 PM PDT by Noumenon ("One man with courage is a majority." - Thomas Jefferson)
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