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OK- Making an economic Armageddon retreat - what do I need?
Today | Me

Posted on 08/11/2011 7:49:26 PM PDT by dila813

Ok, I am out shopping for the perfect retreat to get away from the city and if required live out there without any resupply required.

What I have so far identified: 1. Plentiful Nearby Food Supplies 2. Lots of Land 3. Shelters - anything specific about the shelter other than insulation, wood heat, and wind power with back up generators? 4. Guns? 5. Ammo? 6. Tools? 7. Sanitation?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: survival; tinfoilhat
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Survival Thread

Want to see what intel and experience Free Republic has to offer. I know the well is indeed deep with this crowd, you guys are practically professors....

1 posted on 08/11/2011 7:49:30 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813; Kartographer

pinging the resident expert.


2 posted on 08/11/2011 7:54:22 PM PDT by Huck
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To: dila813

It will have to be secure, safe and ready while not in use. It will have to be accessable and not too difficult to get to when needed. It will have to be defensible, sometimes difficult while you’re all alone in a remote outpost.


3 posted on 08/11/2011 7:55:01 PM PDT by umgud
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To: dila813

Trustworthy friends and family.

There’s no greater weapon than a man who has your back and a whole network of people doing the same is orders of magnitude greater.


4 posted on 08/11/2011 7:55:28 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin)
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To: dila813
Shelter - prevailing winds, access to roads (good, bad, how far?), lines of fire (how far around are there no hiding spots for enemies? Minimum of 1/4 mile), easy getaway exit (tunnel preferred), neighbors (how far, what kind, do they accept outsiders, etc?), access to water, forget the backup generators (the noise will draw unwanted "guests"), weather patterns.

Is that enough for now on shelter?

5 posted on 08/11/2011 7:56:07 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: cripplecreek

a good marriage and lots of luck....


6 posted on 08/11/2011 7:56:18 PM PDT by cherry
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To: dila813

A good water source. And 6-12 months worth of long-term storage food. Maybe a few chickens and/or goats.


7 posted on 08/11/2011 7:59:01 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: dila813

www.survivalblog.com

1. Plentiful Nearby Food Supplies - common consensus is 1 year on hand. Unless you already know how to raise food don’t think its gonna be easy.

2. Lots of Land - depends, how much can you protect?

3. Shelters - anything specific about the shelter other than insulation, wood heat, and wind power with back up generators? generators are noisy and require gas. What will you do when gas runs out? I vote for solar with battery banks if you get enough sun.

4. Guns? - and more guns. A minimum of four, handgun, .22 rifle, shotgun, and hunting rifle. Possibly also a ar-15 type.

5. Ammo? - several thousand rounds for each gun, plus spare parts.

6. Tools? - yes

7. Sanitation? - If you eat then you are gonna need this. Improper handling of sanitation kills a lot of people.

All of these are deep subjects by themselves.


8 posted on 08/11/2011 7:59:08 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: dila813

Play the game Oregon Trail a few times before you start buying stuff. Seriously.


9 posted on 08/11/2011 8:00:22 PM PDT by jdsteel (I like the way the words "Palin for President" make progressives apoplectic.)
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To: dila813

Pray to God and go to survivalblog.com.


10 posted on 08/11/2011 8:02:18 PM PDT by GranTorino (Bloody Lips Save Ships.)
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To: dila813

Medicine, herbs some basic medical info. Some of those field books are pretty good. Like where there is no doctor and where there is no dentist. First aid kit.


11 posted on 08/11/2011 8:03:16 PM PDT by MsLady (Be the kind of woman that when you get up in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: dila813

Also make sure if you can, to have extra to barter with and to share.


12 posted on 08/11/2011 8:04:38 PM PDT by MsLady (Be the kind of woman that when you get up in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: driftdiver

Plentiful Nearby Food Supplies -— Meaning there is a massive supply of food I know I can procure from the wild. I have the skills for this, I have no doubt about this.


13 posted on 08/11/2011 8:05:33 PM PDT by dila813
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To: Just another Joe

Well, I was putting the shelter so far out in the wild no one will ever hear the generator running. It is very unlikely they will even see the smoke from my fire.


14 posted on 08/11/2011 8:06:51 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Water is the most important thing...you can do on little or no rations for weeks but go a few days without water and you are dead...invest in securing a steady supply and have filters, filtration kits, decontamination kits and whatever else you will need to secure your short, medium and long term needs...


15 posted on 08/11/2011 8:09:08 PM PDT by Nat Turner (I can see NOVEMBER 2012 from my house....)
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To: cripplecreek
Trustworthy friends and family.

Bump! That is the most important ingredient. I live in one of those remote but friendly communities. Not very dynamic, but 600 residents and I know most of them. Few have been here as long as my family, some of my ancestors were born in TX during the Republic. My great-grandfather came here in 1889. The town was not formed until about 1904-1905.

The drought is so bad here that my father and uncles sold all of their cattle. Driest and hottest year since probably 1895. I have a good garden in spite of this, but it requires that I water every other day. Most of the plants are doing well. Getting lots of okra, squash and blackeyed peas. The tomatoes and peppers are not doing much but the plants look fine, when the temps drop I am sure they will set fruit.

16 posted on 08/11/2011 8:09:33 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Abigail Adams

I was only planning for dry food storage for grains and spices

There will be plenty of wild life around there that can be captured on a daily basis.

Kind of worried about things like should I bury some of the dry stores or keep them all in a central place.


17 posted on 08/11/2011 8:09:33 PM PDT by dila813
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To: Nat Turner

Year round creek, 5 ft water table, and river 2 miles away.

Plus there is a ton of rain fall so rain water collection is available. It is high up though, so no risk of flooding.


18 posted on 08/11/2011 8:11:14 PM PDT by dila813
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To: GranTorino

My choice was a small cruising sailboat with an economical diesel I picked up a few years ago for a song. If I had waited until the present crisis I could have gotten one by whistling for it.


19 posted on 08/11/2011 8:12:06 PM PDT by tarotsailor
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To: MsLady

Kind of thought about this, but not so far as the dentist.

I can deal with it, but that is going to be the most painful thing.


20 posted on 08/11/2011 8:13:09 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

I guess you could buy a Mel Tappan book, it would not be a bad start. You probably need to define specifically what type of apocolypse you expect.


21 posted on 08/11/2011 8:14:48 PM PDT by MSF BU (YR'S Please Support our troops: JOIN THEM!)
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To: tarotsailor

I thought about this at one time, but a sailing expert told me to forget it because even with mending, the sails aren’t going to make it for many years. They said unless I had a really big one with a really big crew that could make new ones from natural harvested products it would be a loosing battle.

Also the boat that big would need to be placed in lay-up every 5 years.


22 posted on 08/11/2011 8:16:19 PM PDT by dila813
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To: MSF BU

I am talking a mild one, at least at first

you know, 40%+ unemployment, people starving in the city, dogs and children living together in dog houses, shoes 5 years old.

Human feces in the street...


23 posted on 08/11/2011 8:18:13 PM PDT by dila813
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To: jdsteel

game Oregon Trail?

What’s that?

Casino game?


24 posted on 08/11/2011 8:19:19 PM PDT by dila813
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To: cripplecreek

“Trustworthy friends and family There’s no greater weapon than a man who has your back and a whole network of people doing the same is orders of magnitude greater.”

And my big-city friends wonder why a moved to a very small town (Under 1,000) a few years ago....


25 posted on 08/11/2011 8:20:50 PM PDT by tcrlaf (PREFRONTAL LOBOTOMISTS FOR OBAMA2012!)
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To: driftdiver

I am going to check out the survivalblog.com to see what I can learn.

thanks for the link


26 posted on 08/11/2011 8:21:16 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Just reesolved the dental issue by taking the final solution. Making replacement dentures could be a problem. Society is necessary. A small town is preferable to a wilderness.


27 posted on 08/11/2011 8:21:20 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This IS my blog site.)
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To: dila813
My husband and I looked for land as well - in Colorado (great prices, BTW).

In the end though, it makes no difference.

If things become as bad as you or I can imagine, who gives a krap who owns the land? Buy yourself a good, used motor home, stock it with a first aid kit, camping supplies, etc. find a place to bug out and do it.

In the end of the world scenario, what are property rights?

Property owners can defend against evil or embrace the good. According to your own ideals (and theirs) property owners will embrace you or try and kill you.

You'll be defending your presence either way. . .

28 posted on 08/11/2011 8:26:14 PM PDT by KittenClaws (A closed mouth gathers no foot.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

There is a town that is on the other side of the mountain about 12 miles away, but if society falls apart there isn’t going to be a dentist there.


29 posted on 08/11/2011 8:26:36 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Travel to some remote areas out west in states like Idaho and Montana. Make friends with some of the locals and pick their brains. The Salmon River valley in Idaho would be a good reference point.

Those folks live self-sufficiency out of necessity and you could learn a lot from them.

That being said, if society collapses to the point where we need to retreat and live off the land, I doubt any of us would be long for this world. Centuries of reliance on aggressive and advanced medical treatments have left us with inadequate immune systems.


30 posted on 08/11/2011 8:26:48 PM PDT by randita (Obama - chains you can bereave in.)
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To: KittenClaws

I only want to own the land so I can prep, it doubles as a vacation house too.

It gives me a safe destination to go to where everything is there and standing by.


31 posted on 08/11/2011 8:28:26 PM PDT by dila813
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To: driftdiver

re: sanitation

Buy some 1 lb bags of dry chlorine pool shock. You can make lots of bleach from it and that stuff has a 20 year shelf life unlike LC. Mixing rules are on the net.


32 posted on 08/11/2011 8:28:54 PM PDT by Peter from Rutland
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To: dila813
Yea pulling teeth isn't exactly pretty. And when nothing else is around it's the only way to get rid of a bad tooth. Plenty of baking soda too. Great for rinsing out your mouth, gargling, brushing your teeth. Taking the sting out of bee/wasp stings. Lots of other applications.

We've slowly built up our stock of whole grains and bought a good hand grain mill. They are expensive though, about $300. I bought one of the expensive ones after buying a cheap one. The cheaper ones only grind the grain up enough to where it's more like cracked wheat than anything else.

One of the best books I've read on how to do this is, How to Survive the End of the World as We Know It: Tactics, Techniques, and Technologies for Uncertain Times

33 posted on 08/11/2011 8:34:31 PM PDT by MsLady (Be the kind of woman that when you get up in the morning, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's UP !!")
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To: randita

I am hoping if I don’t survive that my children and their decedents will....it is really for them I feel I need to create this as an insurance plan

It is a shame it is always the kids that have to pay.


34 posted on 08/11/2011 8:34:47 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

All the above, plus a lot of luck. Friends and neighbors that you can depend on are key. You can’t stay awake 24/7 you can be watching the horizon and digging tatters at the same time. and two or more sets shoulders hold up the world a lot better than one.

As for me in a ‘Mad Max/Book of Eli’ scenario luck will have as much as anything to do with your survival. Me I am looking gearing up more to survive a ‘Running Man/Max Headroom/One Second After’ type situation.

No I am not saying that its impossible to survive in a ‘Mad Max’ world many of our fore fathers made their way with not much more than an axe and a gun, but even then luck had a lot to do with things.

Like I said for me I am just trying to lay enough aside to make it thought something like the collapse of Argentina’s ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yerKMQc7-w&feature=grec_index), but a much more violent version. We have a larger entitlement minded population and a much more violent and armed population than Argentina and I see many many small business wiped out by flash mob looting, and see rape, robbery and murder for murder sake. Many of these ‘yutes’ will think no more about killing you than most people think about stepping on a roach. That will be the test of many. Most preppers I know are Christian people and they will hesitate to do what they might have to do the ‘yutes’ won’t in fact they will smile and laugh about it.

Think of this quote which is one of my favorites:

“Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8)” (1998)
Quark: Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes.

Now go look at some of the videos of the riots in the UK and of some of the flash mobs here in the US and look into there eyes.

For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:

http://www.tomeaker.com/kart/preparedness1i.pdf

For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.

As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Or as the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3

Lastly this for the doubters and the scoffers.

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.

Underestimation can be fatal.”


35 posted on 08/11/2011 8:35:50 PM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: dila813

Understood.

If it is affordable, do it.

Water well or water source. That is all you need. The rest, you can handle, particularly if there is animal life.

Water, food, defense.

If the end of the world does not happen, you still have a nice vacation spot.

I highly recommend Colorado. We did not buy because of “environmental studies” Long story.

Good luck, friend.


36 posted on 08/11/2011 8:36:15 PM PDT by KittenClaws (A closed mouth gathers no foot.)
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

PING!!!


37 posted on 08/11/2011 8:36:43 PM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Thanks for the PDF, that is awesome!


38 posted on 08/11/2011 8:40:27 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Bolt holes are places to go for very short term periods. Survival requires a community with a plan. If you’re thinking of hiding out for five years, might as well just stay in the city and take your chances there.

A small rural community gives you more options and more chances of actually surviving anything serious.

BUT, that wasn’t what you were asking about. You were asking about what’s best for your bolt hole.

I’d strongly suggest getting and practicing with a slingshot, as well as buying and practicing with traps and snares. No need to expend your ammo supply which might be needed for far more dangerous creatures than what’s in the local food chain, and it doesn’t attract as much attention. A few solar panels and a battery can provide silent light, and cans of white fuel are extremely easy to store, transport, and use for cooking and heating without giving away much in position.

Grain and spice storage is extremely easy and well documented on the net, and it sounds like the water supply isn’t an issue. All in all, my biggest suggestion is give the most care to solutions that require little to no effort to use and maintain. An electric light powered by batteries charged with a solar panel eliminates replacing mantels, refilling fuel tanks and exhausting gasses. A tank filled by a small pump over a period of days beats hauling buckets of water. A trap provides fresh food without requiring hunting.

A digital reader and a few hours spent on the project Gutenberg can give months worth of reading materials, and requires little energy to recharge.

Last, but never least, is getting a ham license and becoming familiar with how to use the radios. You’ll need a method of communication that can survive degradation in service and you’d be communicating with a group who is more often than not intelligent and level headed.


39 posted on 08/11/2011 8:42:08 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: dila813

Do you want a home bunker, or one outside the city?
Where will you be when the SHTF?
If everybody is evacuating the city, how will YOU get through?
Are you planning for 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years?

How you plan depends on the scenario you’re defending against.
I say do the best you can preparing your home, because you’re better off defending what you have than trying to move it, or stockpile another location.
If you’re lucky enough to have a plan B outside the city, good for you.


40 posted on 08/11/2011 8:42:58 PM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: G Larry

Well, I plan to be at this spot when SHTF, but if not, I will have to hunker down till I can get to my retreat. I have many ways of getting there though.

This is a 50 Year + Retreat vs some sort of home bunker.


41 posted on 08/11/2011 8:47:49 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Survival preparation can be fairly involved, when you start getting down to the details. First and foremost, you need to outline the four “emergency” situations you need to prepare for.

1. At home/short term: You stay in your home, but the essentials are in short and unreliable supply. Usually consider up to two weeks.
2. At home/long term: Same as above, but the supply of essentials is less reliable and the duration longer. Anything over two weeks.
3. Evacuate your home/short term. The situation requires you to pack up and leave. You will be leaving for up to two weeks.
4. Evacuate your home/long term. Same as 3, but you have to leave for over two weeks, plan for up to one year.

Once you break your plan down above, you need to fill out the details for each scenario.

You need one gallon of water per person per day. Not all of this needs to be potable, some will be for hygiene. But if you can plan on one gallon of potable water per person per day, you should be all right.

Three meals per day per person. Make sure you plan on food that everyone likes and eats already. Do NOT “plan to ration.” Plan on eating and drinking what you need every day. Rationing is for when your plan is inadequate. Don’t plan inadequately. Be sure the meals are balanced nutritionally, and have not expired. Be sure to take into account any food allergies.

Medicine. Store enough medicine to get through the emergency. Bear in mind that some medicines require refrigeration. This makes it tough, and is one of the more difficult aspects of long-term survival preparation.

First aid. Have a good supply of the basics.

Defense. You don’t need an arsenal. You need a shotgun, a rifle, a powerful handgun. What you need is a fair amount of ammo. .22s are very good because 100 rounds can fit easily in your pocket. If you’re good with a .22, you can take a lot of game.

Transportation. One of the chief concerns among survivalists right now is what the full effects of an EMP detonation will be. Some say it will shut down anything with any type of micro-circuitry, which includes automobiles with any type of computer or digital controls. Others say it won’t be that bad, that a car may sputter, may stall, but will start again. I’m still researching this issue. However, the safest bet is to have a sizable, 4x4 built 1972 or earlier. Computers were introduced after 72. If you go this route, make sure it does not have electronic ignition. If the worst-case-scenario happens after an EMP, you’ll need to have all computer/micro-circuitry parts backed up and stored in a faraday cage. Before you “but out,” you’ll have to replace all such parts.

I lived in Seattle for 10 years. The North Cascades are a good destination. I wouldn’t target anywhere from Snoqualmie Pass to Stevens Pass. When the SHTF, a lot of Seassholes will head out to that area. If they ban together, they will loot you, despite their peace signs. You need to get far enough away that it is difficult for a large group of people to reach you collectively with any ability to loot you.

As others have said, be sure to have a good water filter if you have to evacuate. Go to REI and get plenty of the two-bottle water treatment kits, a portable filter with back up filter replacements.

Also, don’t forget you’ll need a way to cook. For short-term, fuel-based stoves will work fine. Get the type that use multiple fuels. You get a jet for “white fuel” Coleman’s fuel, etc. You get another jet for other fuel types (gasoline, kerosene, etc.). Bear in mind this requires fuel. So part of your survival gear should include extra five-gallon containers of gasoline.

Sounds like a lot? It is. That’s why you’ll need a roof-rack on your bug-out vehicle and, if possible, some sort of a trailer. But keep in mind you may not be able to that trailer too far off road.


42 posted on 08/11/2011 8:48:27 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: dila813

before you buy that remote piece of land you might want to read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/9870563457?tag=surviinargen-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=9870563457&adid=0YS947GSKAMG2T1ARMC6&;


43 posted on 08/11/2011 8:49:48 PM PDT by BMWR1200C
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To: kingu

No, you were right before, this isn’t the bolt hole, this is literally a place where I am setting up for extended family to rendezvous at for long term survival.

We are looking at 14 people that will be able to arrive within a 5 hrs notice at this site and 40+ within 25 hrs.


44 posted on 08/11/2011 8:50:50 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813
Plentiful Nearby Food Supplies -— Meaning there is a massive supply of food I know I can procure from the wild. I have the skills for this, I have no doubt about this.

So do lots of people. Keep in mind that our ancestors drove most species of game animals close to extinction in the 19th century, when there were a quarter as many of us and they were using black powder rifles. In a real doomsday scenario, every animal larger than a chipmunk within a hundred miles of a paved road will be dead in six months.

45 posted on 08/11/2011 8:51:25 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: Kartographer

I’m still inclined to think the Mad Max scenario is unlikely, at least long term.

The lifespans of people who like to go door to door or neighborhood to neighborhood stealing and raping and causing general mayhem would probably be measured in weeks, if not days.

There are alot of folks in this country who are veterans or have experience in law enforcement, toss in the crowd who hunt or have hunted in the past, if the SHTF, these guys are not going to tolerate any shenanigans. None at all.


46 posted on 08/11/2011 8:51:57 PM PDT by djf (One of the few FReepers who NEVER clicked the "dead weasel" thread!! But may not last much longer...)
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To: BMWR1200C

That’s cool, I will definitely pick this up on my e reader right now


47 posted on 08/11/2011 8:52:16 PM PDT by dila813
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To: Kartographer; dila813
I'm also adding some of these to my supplies: http://www.newhopeseed.com/tobacco_seeds.html

Gonna be a lot of people out there jonesin for a smoke after prepackaged junk is all used up.

48 posted on 08/11/2011 8:53:32 PM PDT by kimmie7 (I do not think BO is the antichrist, but he may very well be 665.)
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To: dila813

after you read the book check out this site. Lots of answers.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/


49 posted on 08/11/2011 8:54:04 PM PDT by BMWR1200C
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To: kimmie7

that is a good idea


50 posted on 08/11/2011 8:54:10 PM PDT by dila813
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