Posted on 08/23/2011 5:05:54 PM PDT by nickcarraway
To me, that's what's weird about this story. When I was in, falling asleep on night shift was VERY RARE and I never knew anyone to do it twice. They got pounced on so bad the first time, they never did it again. And we were Navy, not exactly the toughest, most macho branch, right? And not even in a combat zone, which would be ten times more reason to be alert.
So this guy fell asleep 4 times?? Something had to be wrong with him. IF... the report is accurate.
To those who think this was out of control abuse towards the young Marine.
A soldier, marine or Seabee (Capitalised purposefully) is assigned a field of fire or “sector” which is thiers to watch over a scheduled period of time prior to relief. Normally, there would be two people in a fighting position or “foxhole” side by side, but that is not always the case.
When this Marine repeatedly fell asleep, he was exposing that which was important enough to watch. An “avenue of approach for the enemy”.
If for some reason, my son or daughter was to end up in Afghanistan in he same platoon as this guy and due to his nappy poo, ended up knifed or shot in the back, I would not have the slightest care that he may have also died in the attack. If he did survive, he should be arrested and convicted for negligent homicide. This was a serious matter, and a serious offense being committted in a country where serious consequences are the norm.
As a former enlisted man I have a feeling that, had this Seargent gone to his officer to report the issue, the UCMJ proceedings would have been scheduled on some calendar but it’s highly unlikley that the offender would’ve been removed from his duities. Any officer in a combat zone would’ve said, DEAL with IT! in the mean time.
99 percent of the time the officer would be right, the offence could be dealt with later and the Seargent would temporarily correct the issue, somehow.(nobody really wants to know)
This incident is the one percent of the time where, apparently, the officer wasn’t involved and the Seargent, knowing the typical process of delayed justice, decided to correct the issue rather than be made to feel incompetent by some A&M grad would didn’t give two shits for him as a person or a military asset.
The Seargeant was only wrong because it turned out this way. If Lew did not shoot himself, the Seargeant would now be known as an effective Marine leader worthy of promotion.
Sorry to Lew, especially if he really did have a sleep disorder. I seriously doubt that however. Boot camp should have exposed such a condition. Maybe it was something else, I don’t know. What I do know is Seargents ae not counselors. They have a misson to accomplish and that is to keep the rest of our sons and daughters alive, as best they can, while defeating the enemies of the United States. Not an easy task.
Another article:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/08/marine-suicide-tied-to-hazing-in-afghanistan-082311/
I completely agree that they should have shipped his posterior out of there yesterday.
My alleged thouht-process is “We have a SERIOUS problem here. Lew falls asleep on watch. We need to understand and to solve this problem. Either he’s sick or he’s an unreliable SOB. I don’t have the facilities to rule out the first. But I can’t live with a Marine who falls asleep on ewatch in Indian country. Let’s get him somewhere where someone cn find out what’s up and where my men are not imperilled by his incapacity, whether moral or medical.”
As things turned out, viewing it in the most cynical way, they”re just as short-handed with a suicide as they would have been with a medical transfer.
(I was only a civilian hospital chaplain and then an LEO chaplain. I do not have the great honor of having been a military chaplain. But sometimes I think pedistrics comes close.)
It's a real and serious issue. I don't care how many in here think they are RAMBO the human body and mind in each individual has specific limits. The brain in an act of self preservation can and will shut done if too many of it's limits are exceeded. It will be involuntary and the person can not do one thing to stop it.
Sad to say human physchology and the human brain are for the most part not open too dicsussion nor in many venues taken seriously in the military depite the fact that understanding it and using it may save many of our troops lives both on the battlefield and after. The one place I know of where it is taken deadly serious is The Navy submarine fleet. The officers and senior NCO's watch close for problems.
There is nothing in the article that remotely suggests he suffered from anything other than criminal irresponsibility.
To cover your utterly mistaken initial post you are now resorting to manufacturing excuses for criminal irresponsibility. Nothing in the article suggests he had narcolepsy or anything similar.
As long as we are making things up, I’ll conjecture that space aliens slipped him a mickey when he wasn’t looking. Can’t blame him for that...but of course the NCOs and officers should have deployed an anti-space alien perimeter to protect him.
The fact that it happened four times, and that he couldn’t seem to stop even though his punishments were escalating, suggests there was something wrong with him. And that he killed himself over it.
Different missions.
...and I would add that the mind can also do amazing things with serious motivational factors involved. For instance, a veteran Taliban wants to cut your throat while you sleep.
There needs to be an avenue for getting the liability out of the field asap or people will do what they have to do, to survive.
The sad thing is that they will punish the enlisted grunt for assaulting this guy, when the person who is responsible is the person who had the authority to get him out of the field...and didn’t.
HOW ABOUT SUICIDE????? That is one hell of an indicator something was bad wrong going on in his mind.
“Let’s get him somewhere where someone cn find out what’s up and where my men are not imperilled by his incapacity, whether moral or medical.”
Rewarding bad behavior gets you more bad behavior. Lots of guys would LOVE to be shipped back to Bagram for a physical exam. It usually takes 2-3 days to get there, and after the exam it would take up to a week to get back - so think of it as a 10+ day vacation in a combat zone.
That would make it worthwhile to FAKE falling asleep on guard duty, just for the vacation time!
“Sad. But better him than an entire platoon while he slept on duty.”
I wonder if that is what he was thinking as well when he killed himself. I imagine that while the physical abuse was bad - the verbal abuse was even worse. “You should be happy that we’re all throwing sand all over you and kicking you. At least that means we’re not all DEAD because you took a nap. Why don’t you just kill yourself - then it will just be you, and not all of us as well.”
Especially in view of the one soldier’s statement of fearing of a suicide.
Obviously they should have handled this much differently.
Suicide indicates problems, but not physical ones. I knew an O-5 with an exceptional career and good family life who killed himself in his garage. No one knew why...but it probably was NOT a brain tumor.
| Side A | Side B | Side A | Side B | |||
| 1. | What is your 1st General Order? | To take charge of this post and all government... | 6. | What is your 2nd General Order? | To walk my post in a military manner, keeping... | |
| 2. | What is your 3rd General Order? | To report all violations of orders I am instructed... | 7. | What is your 4th General Order? | To repeat all calls from posts more distant... | |
| 3. | What is your 5th General Order? | To quit my post only when properly relieved. | 8. | What is your 6th General Order? | To receive, obey and pass on to the sentry... | |
| 4. | What is your 7th General Order? | To talk to no one except in the line of duty. | 9. | What is your 8th General Order? | To give the alarm in case of fire or disorder. | |
| 5. | What is your 9th General Order? | To call the corporal of the guard in any... | 10. | What is your 10th General Order? | To salute all officers and all colors and... |
He didn’t get that much physical abuse. Marines going thru basic get harsher treatment than that!
You know, this is a leadership issue. When I first checked aboard my ship back in the 1980's, the prevailing opinion was that women got pregnant on purpose because they knew they'd be put on shore duty. And there was indeed a high rate of pregnancy on our ship. We had a CO who was a real jerk... I won't go into detail. Well, just before our six-month cruise to go play Destroyer Tender at the mouth of the Persian Gulf, we got a new CO and a new XO. They were both awesome. You could feel the difference on the ship just crossing the quarterdeck. Anyway, we replaced the Samuel Gompers, and we heard that during their 3 months anchored near Oman, they had lost upwards of 30 women due to pregnancy. That is, they got pregnant and had to be transferred to shore duty. Our ship, in 3 months, only lost 3 women. I guess my point is that yes, sometimes people will take advantage of the system... but leadership has a lot to do with how many do so. This whole story just sounds like something that was badly handled.
“Obviously they should have handled this much differently.”
That’s the last thing from their mind. They didn’t care about handling it properly. They cared about not getting their throats slit by Mahjeem in their sleep. Kicking sand on the guy, hitting him and kicking him...that stuff goes on more than the average person wants to think or know about. It’s part of the culture of an Infantry unit...magnified with the stress of a combat zone.
Everybody wants to blame the victims, the other men in the unit. If we can hypothesize about every malady or brain dysfunction for the guy who put the unit in danger, why do we not afford the same protection to the men who kicked him and hit him?
Certainly they were under great mental duress knowing this one guy could get them all killed, they probably couldn’t sleep and were critically deprived of sleep.
NOT GUILTY.
But no, they will be scapegoated. We only afford defense and protection to those who abdicate responsibility, not those who accept it.
Houston, we have a problem. Driving a sick man to suicide is kind of a heavy duty insurance policy for coddling malingerers.
as a recently retired soldier, he deserved his punishments. Menial physical punishment works very well. Ie: making a soldier stack sandbags in an area, then have him stack them elsewhere, if they can’t handle it, they aren’t cut out for service. Of course every so often you find the private pile types, we weed em out, in this case, he weeded himself out.
ph
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