Posted on 08/23/2011 5:05:54 PM PDT by nickcarraway
I don’t know “Wind Talkers” but I have seen “A Few Good Men,” so I think I understand. I just watched “From Here to Eternity,” wherein Montgomery Clift plays a boxer who refuses to fight for his platoon (because he had once killed a man). A series of harsh humiliations occur which Clift endures stoicly. (Monty would never commit suicide!) The bottom line to someone like me? The army is TOUGH. Don’t join it if you can’t endure.
Not everyone can stay awake 2 or 3 days. Some can. I still can. Usually by the time you reach 30 years of age you can’t. Which is relevant to this issue ~ I think it was 6 snipers, not just 4, but check this discussion board on the situation: http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/10-853.aspx
Excellent analysis. In WWII, you could be shot for sleeping at your post ...
Not everybody develops that problem. Buddy of mine was an artillery spotter in the Nam. He said he NEVER slept anywhere in any time in the vicinity of doing that particular duty ~ particularly during the rain.
It’s quite obvious that folks aren’t subject to summary execution in the US military these days.
*****
Read it and weep ...
UCMJ Article 113:
“Any sentinel or look-out who is found drunk or sleeping upon his post, or leaves it before he is regularly relieved, shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment other than death as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused was posted or on post as a sentinel or lookout;
(2) That the accused was found drunk while on post, was found sleeping while on post, or left post before being regularly relieved. Note: If the offense was committed in time of war or while the accused was receiving special pay under 37 U.S.C. § 310 (hostile fire pay), add the following element
(3) That the offense was committed (in time of war) (while the accused was receiving special pay under 37 U.S.C. § 310).
Explanation.
(1) In general. This article defines three kinds of misbehavior committed by sentinels or lookouts: being found drunk or sleeping upon post, or leaving it before being regularly relieved. This article does not include an officer or enlisted person of the guard, or of a ship’s watch, not posted or performing the duties of a sentinel or lookout, nor does it include a person whose duties as a watchman or attendant do not require constant alertness.
(2) Post. “Post” is the area where the sentinel or lookout is required to be for the performance of duties. It is not limited by an imaginary line, but includes, according to orders or circumstances, such surrounding area as may be necessary for the proper performance of the duties for which the sentinel or lookout was posted. The offense of leaving post is not committed when a sentinel or lookout goes an immaterial distance from the post, unless it is such a distance that the ability to fully perform the duty for which posted is impaired.
(3) On post. A sentinel or lookout becomes “on post” after having been given a lawful order to go “on post” as a sentinel or lookout and being formally or informally posted. The fact that a sentinel or lookout is not posted in the regular way is not a defense. It is sufficient, for example, if the sentinel or lookout has taken the post in accordance with proper instruction, whether or not formally given. A sentinel or lookout is on post within the meaning of the article not only when at a post physically de-fined, as is ordinarily the case in garrison or aboard ship, but also, for example, when stationed in observation against the approach of an enemy, or detailed to use any equipment designed to locate friend, foe, or possible danger, or at a designated place to maintain internal discipline, or to guard stores, or to guard prisoners while in confinement or at work.
(4) Sentinel or lookout. A sentinel or a lookout is a person whose duties include the requirement to maintain constant alertness, be vigilant, and remain awake, in order to observe for the possible approach of the enemy, or to guard persons, property, or a place and to sound the alert, if necessary.
(5) Drunk. For an explanation of “drunk,” see paragraph 35c(3).
(6) Sleeping. As used in this article, “sleeping” is that condition of insentience which is sufficient sensibly to impair the full exercise of the mental and physical faculties of a sentinel or lookout. It is not necessary to show that the accused was in a wholly comatose condition. The fact that the accused’s sleeping resulted from a physical incapacity caused by disease or accident is an affirmative defense. See R.C.M. 916(i).
Lesser included offenses.
(1) Drunk on post.
(a) Article 112—drunk on duty
(b) Article 92—dereliction of duty
(c) Article 134—drunk on station
(d) Article 134—drunk in uniform in a public place
(2) Sleeping on post.
(a) Article 92—dereliction of duty
(b) Article 134—loitering or wrongfully sitting down on post
(3) Leaving post.
(a) Article 92—dereliction of duty
(b) Article 86—going from appointed place of duty
Maximum punishment.
(1) In time of war. Death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
(2) While receiving special pay under 37 U.S.C. § 310. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 10 years.
(3) In all other places. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.
And I’ll repeat:
“Most folks in a combat zone - not a rear echelon place like Bagram, but out on the front lines like this place apparently was, quickly develop that ancient reptilian disease known as Dragon Ass.”
If you think “In a combat situation chronic sleepiness is a special condition ~ it’s not like these guys are up partying all night you know. “, then it is time to back away from the keyboard and admit you don’t know enough about combat to express an opinion. Turn off your transmitter and go into receive mode.
AAAARgh I’ve been lurking on this thread and you’re a lying idiot. The Marine Corps does not do security like your local mall cops.
While I’m here,this story stinks of BS. It sounds like a boot camp wet dream.
In a combat unit there are no questions asked about “asleep on watch”. You’re outta there. It’s been like that for about 200 years. (So how old is the Marine Corp?)Born 10 November 1775. The finest fighting force the world has ever seen.
Hey, a beer sounds good! :)
Real classy response. The woman haters at FR crawl out at night, it seems.
You know doggone well units in the field do not ALL sleep at the same time ~ this is not the good old days when war was conducted exclusively in the daytime.
awww you too eh, I’ve heard midol helps
not a woman hater, but I respond in kind. There was nothing hysterical about my posts. Perhaps if you used reason instead of emotion you would realize it.
I was Flight Chief when I was in BMT at Lackland AFB. If one recruit fu*ked up in the flight, we ALL got punished.
We ALWAYS looked out for one another in order to prevent this from happening - BUT we couldn't always keep an eye out when the fu*k ups were on overnight guard duty. Thats where MOST of our punishment came from [getting caught sleeping on guard duty].
Needless to say, there were quite a few "blanket parties" in our barracks in order to correct the problem ...
“The Marines are not real interested in your hyperventalating rationalizations and excuses for what happened”
Or I have seen enough of your posts to know you are full of SH#!
“You know doggone well units in the field do not ALL sleep at the same time”
You are the only one that has made that statement. Nobody else even suggested it. However, it is important for individuals posted as sentry to stay awake. It one man falls asleep it can and does result in the deaths of those he is supposed to be protecting.
Cases like this one only provoke sharp and angry “discussions” on the Internet, Capt Obvious wannabes who’ll inform us with all the sincerity they can muster that the boy could have been responsible for deaths of 100s of his fellow Marines (so how come falling asleep at least 4 times, and probably more, he didn’t?!), and a lot of stupidity.
No question among those who’ve experienced a little of life, and not a lot of military discipline and the necessary thoughtlessness of military life, that a 21 year old consistently falling asleep on duty must be suffering from a sleeping disorder, depression, or some other “shameful” malady, and finds himself in a war, where different rules apply, cannot admit to it, self-diagnose, or complain (”A marine doesn’t complain!”), or else he’s been kept awake 20 hours a day, because it’s war, because, because...
Shiite happens and people fall asleept. It’s a physiological function, for those of you in Camp Rio Vista. D’uh!
Yeah, when I was in Desert Shield/Storm I pulled 2 2-hour shifts every day for 6 straight months. Falling asleep even once would have been unthinkable.
Yep. To me the falling asleep calls for medical eval and, possibly, medical discharge. REALLY SERIOUSLY lousy judgment on the sergeant’s part.
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