Pasadena-based KiOR plans to have renewable crude oil at the pumps next year (Condi Rice on board)

Your BayArea News ^ | August 2, 2011 | JIM MOLONY

[StolarStorm]

The only drawback I can see is whether or not the “biomass” crude can be co-mingled in the current delivery system of natural crude (pipelines, etc.)

That is a good point. I'll have to find out. I believe that their product is almost identical to standard crude, except that it is purer. It burns better actually... which makes sense considering it is synthetic. But I'm not sure if co mingling would work.

[StolarStorm]

If there were a cost effective way to convert it to fuel, I can see entire crops of trees being planted and cut for fuel assuming there is a profit to be had.

Apparently their process uses a catalyst that reduces the energy input needed to produce their version of crude. But once you add in the energy needed to grow trees and such, I'm not sure it works out. But there is indeed plenty of waste cellulose plant material around that can be used economically.

[dangerdoc]

I wonder how different the this tech is from what is being used in the plant in Carthage MO?

[StolarStorm]

I found an old article that goes into the difference. Looks like Kior's catalysts and a process breakthrough allow them to convert biomass into crude without the high temperatures that the company in Carthage uses.

Obviously that makes the Kior method much more competitive from a total energy output standpoint (and apparently a smell standpoint... lol).

I know that they have some very smart folks in the catalyst arena, as I worked with some of their folks way back in the early 90's. They made cutting edge catalysts for Akzo Nobel Chemicals.

Here is the article I found:
Bioecon - Kior

Such a method would eliminate the need for the superhigh temperatures and toxic catalysts used in other thermochemical methods for cellulosic-biofuel production. While O'Connor says that he is still improving Kior's catalyst, his first versions are different kinds of modified clays, which are both cheap and environmentally friendly. The product is high quality as well, containing less acid, oxygen, and water. These characteristics make it suitable for burning as heating oil or for use in petroleum refineries, which can use existing processes and equipment to convert it into the longer hydrocarbon chains of gasoline and diesel fuel.

And here is a snippet that answers a previous question:

Because of its ability to slide into the existing petroleum refining and delivery infrastructure, the technology has a huge cost advantage, says O'Connor. It could also be adopted much more rapidly, according to Khosla. "If you can do a solution that's compatible with the oil companies and their current refineries, it becomes much easier for them to get comfortable with it," he says. "Getting them into the game would be a big addition."

[StolarStorm]

I found an article that answers your question... should be in the post right above this one.

[dangerdoc]

Thanks for the info, I’ve really liked chemistry dating back to organic chem in college, almost decided to get a major in chem after taking it. Feel free to ping me with any similar stories.

[StolarStorm]

Their stock is really moving. I wonder if Condi's addition to the board has made some folks notice them. Of course, a high up at CenterPoint Energy is also a director. That might mean more for investors.

I might just have to pick up some shares. Heck, I can always "check up on them" since they are just a few miles away from me.

[StolarStorm]

Another article just came out on biofuels, and Kior was mentioned.

Biocrude still a drop in the bucket

Based on the data it has accumulated at its demonstration facility, KiOR believes that at current yields, it can produce its gasoline and diesel blendstocks at a per-unit production cost below $1.80/USG, unsubsidized, if produced in a standard commercial production facility," said a company spokesman. Standard commercial production requires processing capacity of 1,500 bone-dry tons (BDT) per day, he said.

[ken21]

bump.

[StolarStorm]

I found another biofuels company that already has revenues coming in: Solazyme. Looks like they can make it to without government subsidies. While ramping up their fuels business they are selling their oils to pharmaceutical companies and many others. Might be better than Kior as a viable biofuels company.

Here is the latest deal they struck, along with a list of other articles: Solazyme, Dow partner for Dielectric Insulating Fluids

[StolarStorm]

bump

[dangerdoc]

It all depends on how much the input BTUs cost and how much you can get for finished product BTUs

If you can start with cheap BTUs, waste stream wood, agricultural residue, etc, and process them in a cost effective manner to an expensive form of BTUs, such as gasoline, there is no reason you can’t make a buck.

I can turn something that has no inherent value, grass clippings, into something of value by letting it grow taller and processing it into convenient bales that my neighbors can use and are willing to pay for. This is not that different.

Algae has been a false promise from the beginning. Nobody ever had a strain they could keep alive and grow economically in a commercial operation. We have a current stream of cellulose, much of it waste in our current economy, if somebody can make it more valuable at a profit, they have the recipe for a business.

[StolarStorm]

I'm still doing research on Solazyme... which does use algae. Many folks seem to think their tech will work... lots of contracts with the military and others. Here is a quick and dirty summary from wiki (apologies....):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solazyme

[dangerdoc]

Algae is interesting but in the end, it will require expesive infrastructure and there is only so much energy in sunshine requiring repurposing of vast tracts of land. I wish you luck but I think the money is in figuring out how to turn the 1 billion ton anual American waste stream into useful material.

I won’t hammer you about Wiki, I find it a very usefull tool for technical information.

[StolarStorm]

Thanks for your views. If they can’t make fuel at a low costs, perhaps their cosmetics will work for them. Looks like their algenist brand of skin care products is taking off. Might be much higher margins there anyway.

[dangerdoc]

It’s always better to sell by the ounce than by the barrel.

[dangerdoc]

Sorry for the necro bump.

I was pinged back and thought it was a recent thread. When I started to reply to a post authored by me, I finally looked at the dates.

[StolarStorm]

Very true. I bet the skin care stuff will end up being their big winner. But in the mean time, the biofuels stuff gets nice military contracts.

And the military isn't as interested in actual cost effectiveness. They want an alternative fuel source for obvious reasons.

[StolarStorm]

Looks like the backer of Kior is investing more money in biofuels:

----

Khosla Ventures, the venture-capital firm run by longtime Silicon Valley investor Vinod Khosla, closed a $1.05 billion fund that ranks as one of the biggest new venture funds this year, from which it plans to invest a large portion in clean technology.

[StolarStorm]

Looks like Solazyme might be getting more involved in other uses for oils than for fuel. Much better business model if you ask me.