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Rolling Stones vs. Dean Martin: 1964
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ^ | FRIDAY, 16 MARCH 2012 | RICH KIENZLE

Posted on 03/30/2012 9:02:11 PM PDT by nickcarraway

Today the Rolling Stones are still Rock and Roll and pop culture icons, even as they battle over when (if ever) to do a 50th Anniversary Tour, a situation that may be easing now that Keith Richards apologized to Mick Jagger over remarks Richard made about his bandmate and collaborated in his best-selling 2010 autobiography. Scott Mervis posted a very astute Pop Noise blog entry regarding Bruce Springsteen's recollections of the legendary TAMI Show movie, James Brown's explosive appearance in that film and the Rolling Stones' unenviable task of following the Godfather of Soul.

It's also worth noting that nearly 50 years later, it's easy to forget how revolutionary the Stones were in, say, 1964. But here's an example that just about anyone can relate to. It was still the Mad Men era in those days, Beatle haircuts got kids thrown out of school and music that could (and is) played in churches nowadays was considered subversive and sick.

Their music, both the hardcore blues aspects, and the blues-based rock, was too authentically black-sounding for white picket fence, white bread Mainstream America. Hell, parents were only beginning to cope with the less threatening Beatles.

Enter the Stones, appearing on ABC's Ed Sullivan-like Saturday night variety show The Hollywood Palace on June 3, 1964. The show had guest hosts and this week's was Dean Martin, then in his prime and creating the legend that's honored today with Dino and imitators around the country, mostly as part of Rat Pack shows.

The Palace, taped in an LA theater, was produced by old-school showbiz types who had little truck with this whole youth movement, prefering instead to present the old farts of showbiz (Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, etc.) and the young farts who followed in their footsteps. The Stones, no less controversial in

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The funny thing is today, I bet the average age of Dean Martin fans is younger than Rolling Stones fans.

1 posted on 03/30/2012 9:02:18 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Im a fan of both Dean Martin and the Rolling Stones but the Rolling Stones are much, much preferred.

Best Rolling Stones performance can be see on YouTube by searching Rolling Stones gimme shelter Amsterdam 95. Lisa Fischer gives a performance that will raise the hair on your arms. If you are a Rolling Stones fan it is a must see.


2 posted on 03/30/2012 9:14:25 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: nickcarraway
Good article; thanks for posting.

The funny thing is today, I bet the average age of Dean Martin fans is younger than Rolling Stones fans.

Scary, but I fear you're right.

3 posted on 03/30/2012 9:14:50 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: nickcarraway
"We're just trying to have a little fun here, folks."

Dean Martin entertained for the same reason I post my inanities on this site.


4 posted on 03/30/2012 9:19:21 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: nickcarraway

5 posted on 03/30/2012 9:19:44 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit ;-{)
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To: nickcarraway
Their music, both the hardcore blues aspects, and the blues-based rock, was too authentically black-sounding for white picket fence, white bread Mainstream America. Hell, parents were only beginning to cope with the less threatening Beatles.

Is this really true, or is this some kind of fabricated history made up by liberals to help further their own narrative about this country? I wasn't alive in the 50's, and I was very young in the 60's, so I don't have a strong recollection of that period. I used to take it as gospel that this was the case, given how it has been pounded into our craniums over the decades. But in the last year or so, I've really been questioning just how much of the written history of this country, pop culture or otherwise, from the past 100 years or so is truly authentic, and not just some made-up, Leftist fantasy designed to make Americans hate their own country. Given how they've lied pretty openly about global warming/climate change - and, well, pretty much everything - I'm thinking that I'm onto something. Maybe some of the older Freepers can set me straight, though.

6 posted on 03/30/2012 9:21:22 PM PDT by Major Matt Mason ("Journalism is dead. All news is suspect." - Noamie)
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To: nickcarraway

Pretty nice performance by the Stones in that clip, book-ended by Martin’s “these punks will never play the Sands” attitude. They’re both nostalgia acts now.


7 posted on 03/30/2012 9:24:40 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: nickcarraway

8 posted on 03/30/2012 9:26:16 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit ;-{)
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To: Major Matt Mason
I am not older, but based on what I've seen and heard, it's not true at all. Look at jazz music from the 20s-40s. Give me a break.

Listen to the Andrews Sisters. A lot of their songs were way more influenced by black culture than the Rolling Stones. Maybe the audience didn't always realize it, but it's not exactly hidden.

9 posted on 03/30/2012 9:27:01 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

I never have like the Rolling Stones and find Mick Jagger very, very disgusting, but I do pray for him. One time The LORD put him on my heart to pray for. This most certainly was not my idea.


10 posted on 03/30/2012 9:27:32 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom
Stones Amsterdam

11 posted on 03/30/2012 9:27:47 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: nickcarraway
Graduated from HS in 1964. Didn't like the Beatles or the Stones. But Deano was funny as hell and a cool dude. Now, Deano was still cool, but I now think that the Stones are the best R&R band ever. Beatles can't compare.
12 posted on 03/30/2012 9:31:33 PM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: Major Matt Mason
There are other examples, but this one sprang to mind:Andrews Sisters - Gimme Some Skin, My Friend
13 posted on 03/30/2012 9:35:15 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

In all of 50 years the Stones had never sunk as low as Dino did every time he recorded his show reading moronic idiocies off some early version of a teleprompter.


14 posted on 03/30/2012 9:35:35 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: nickcarraway

Brian Jones was pretty good with the harp, and Mick almost does a moonwalk a couple of times (to the cheers of whatever younger members were in the audience). It is also interesting to see Bill Wyman play the bass like it’s a hand-held stand-up bass, with the neck pointed straight up in the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUunKPa9FuI


15 posted on 03/30/2012 9:39:33 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: I see my hands

Great, with all the weaknesses of post Brian/Mick/Bill Stones on full display.


16 posted on 03/30/2012 9:39:57 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Major Matt Mason
Good catch, typical liberal spin. The minute I read that statement I thought, never have I associated the Stones with being “back-sounding”. Elvis Presley, yes, some others, yes, but not the Stones.
17 posted on 03/30/2012 9:44:10 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: Revolting cat!

Blow it out your ass. This song is the worst thing ever made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA6QmcTcuzY


18 posted on 03/30/2012 9:46:40 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: nickcarraway

Totally off topic, but check this out. Jimmy Page in 1957.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tAOIQiz-8&feature=related


19 posted on 03/30/2012 9:46:51 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Major Matt Mason

The quote you cite is more or less true, and the proof is demonstrated by the very stupidity of Dino’s lines and the laughing audience in the video clip. The Stones, as the Beatles, and the Swinging Blue Jeans among others threatened and rebelled against the naivete and innocence of that white bread “humour” on display.


20 posted on 03/30/2012 9:49:19 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Lazlo in PA
"Blow it out your ass".

We thank you for the elegantly impressive (or impressively elegant, if you prefer) display of your high intelligence. No better way to introduce oneself to the world!

21 posted on 03/30/2012 9:52:43 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Revolting cat!
It's true that the Rolling Stones were essentially a different group post Nanker Phelge. I was pissed off for years after Jones died with some of the art they tried to pass off as rock.

But no way can I not recognize their greatness. The group that composed and performed (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction must forevermore be respected. Not to mention what they did to Decca was pretty cool.


22 posted on 03/30/2012 9:53:54 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: Lazlo in PA

Wow, that is a great song!!


23 posted on 03/30/2012 9:55:44 PM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: I see my hands

Full agreement from me.

(And I’m still hoping that they can get back in the studio one last time with Bill, Bobby Keys and some boogie woogie keyboard player, meaning someone other than their recent musical director.)


24 posted on 03/30/2012 9:58:37 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Revolting cat!; nickcarraway; I see my hands; deweyfrank
This is what I have blowing in the bar at this moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXOmbq3r9vE

25 posted on 03/30/2012 10:02:54 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Revolting cat!; nickcarraway; I see my hands; deweyfrank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXOmbq3r9vE

Sorry


26 posted on 03/30/2012 10:04:21 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: Major Matt Mason

Nevertheless, to finish the thought, as an old rock’n’roller friend dating back to Elvis and Jerry Lee, said to me a while back: “We won, and now what?” He meant of course that rock and roll and the youth culture had won the cultural war that started in the 1950s, and the results, as we all, including him, know, ain’t pretty.


27 posted on 03/30/2012 10:04:32 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: nickcarraway

“Their music, both the hardcore blues aspects, and the blues-based rock, was too authentically black-sounding for white picket fence, white bread Mainstream America.”

###

Shut.

Up.


28 posted on 03/30/2012 10:06:05 PM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: nickcarraway

While I grew up with the Stones I much prefer Deano these days. His voice was like liquid silk.

Mel


29 posted on 03/30/2012 10:07:50 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong....)
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To: Lazlo in PA

Kool. John Barry, who started out in England a couple of years before the Stones.


30 posted on 03/30/2012 10:08:49 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Lazlo in PA
HaHaHa..The bars down here in Dewey aren't that sophisticated. But, if you mosey on over to Rehoboth you might hear that crap. Not saying there's anything wrong with Rehoboth people.
31 posted on 03/30/2012 10:09:40 PM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: I see my hands

Their second significant departure was the passing of Ian Stewart, and the mark of a change is there after it happened.


32 posted on 03/30/2012 10:11:28 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: deweyfrank

33 posted on 03/30/2012 10:14:07 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit ;-{)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

“Best Rolling Stones performance can be see on YouTube by searching Rolling Stones gimme shelter Amsterdam 95.”

###

That’s a nice version; a truly spectacular female lead. A little too much on the vocal pyrotechnics for my taste, it takes away from the essential grit and raw power of that magnificent Stones masterpiece.

Among perhaps the most consistently excellent catalog in rock history, Gimme Shelter is the greatest of the Rolling Stones songs.


34 posted on 03/30/2012 10:16:01 PM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: JoeProBono

Now, those were the days.


35 posted on 03/30/2012 10:17:15 PM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: Major Matt Mason

Absolutely true. There were black radio stations and there were white radio stations. Alan Freed combined the two on his show, but the music itself didn’t start to be combined until the Rolling Stones. Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis did pretty well before that. I think someone said about Jerry Lee Lewis he had a black left hand and a white right hand on the piano.

Whereas the Beatles did covers of Chuck Berry songs, the Stones immersed themselves in all the great black American musicians and came up with their own amazing blend.


36 posted on 03/30/2012 10:18:15 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: JoeProBono

I’m guessing that’s New Jersey?


37 posted on 03/30/2012 10:20:26 PM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: gunsequalfreedom
there aren't many cohesive videos of that tune, but that's a goody.

the tune itself, it seems (and by this I guess I mean the studio release) is continually in my top 5 greatest ever songs.

A timely one, these days, too.

38 posted on 03/30/2012 10:20:56 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: firebrand

The Beatles did covers of Chuck Berry, the Stones took ownership (listen to Down the Road Apiece, while not Berry’s tune, he did a cover, while the Stones recorded the best version of all.)


39 posted on 03/30/2012 10:22:12 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Revolting cat!

In my opinion, Chuck Berry started it all and he got screwed.


40 posted on 03/30/2012 10:24:50 PM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Wow - thanks for that! I was thinking earlier today that Gimme Shelter is probably my favorite rock tune of all time. Every time it comes on the radio...I crank that puppy up.


41 posted on 03/30/2012 10:25:15 PM PDT by babyfreep
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To: Revolting cat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBkqdorajHY&feature=related


42 posted on 03/30/2012 10:27:58 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: nickcarraway

What a difference five years makes. Here they are at what I consider to be the height of their powers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e1_K-JDfOk


43 posted on 03/30/2012 10:28:24 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: deweyfrank

44 posted on 03/30/2012 10:29:27 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit ;-{)
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To: Lazlo in PA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKT_n7qTro


45 posted on 03/30/2012 10:29:27 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA (Now living in a newly minted Red State.)
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To: deweyfrank

46 posted on 03/30/2012 10:32:40 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas gerit ;-{)
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To: deweyfrank
Rocket 88 (Original Version) - Jackie Brenston
47 posted on 03/30/2012 10:37:38 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: firebrand

Yes, it is evident in the music of the early stones that the music is very much black music updated with electronic instruments and an ensemble. I have a large collection of early 78’s with black musicians from the thirties on, the influence is unmistakable.


48 posted on 03/30/2012 10:41:19 PM PDT by ResponseAbility (Islam...Imperialism in a turban.)
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To: firebrand

Have you have ever heard of any music from the 20s to the 40s? Any jazz?


49 posted on 03/30/2012 10:44:25 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: ResponseAbility

Yes, they went back to the roots. Studied all the great blues men. Back to the earliest recordings. They probably even listened to the Alan Lomax stuff, the Georgia Sea Island Singers doing the old slave songs etc.


50 posted on 03/30/2012 10:46:57 PM PDT by firebrand
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