2 WW 2 vanity questions

6-4-12

[Cronos]

depends on which direction you invade from -- all invasions from the East into the Rus lands have succeeded -- from the Scythians/Sarmatians to the Huns to the Kazars, to the Bulgars to the Mongols

Actually even that's not correct, the Poles conquered Moscow in the 1600s and in the 11th century had conquered Kiev (head of the Rus cities)

[Cronos]

don’t forget one other point — the Germans were not good imperialists. Every one of the subjugated people despised them and were treated like dirt. Eventually there would have been a large uprising.

[Cronos]

Another good point by arrogant —> when the Germans came into th ukraine they were initially treated as saviors. then they started killing people and the people reacted immediately.

[InvisibleChurch]

thanks and thank you

[RoadTest]

“Actually, the power of the Reich lives on only now it’s called islam.”

Good one!

[dfwgator]

Stalin was able to mobilize the Soviets by calling on Mother Russia, the idea of the Teutonic knights attacking again -- remember that Stalin cynically re-emphasised the Russian Orthodox Church at this point.

If you get a chance to see it, there is a great Russian movie that came out a few years ago called "Pop" (The Priest), about an Orthodox Priest who set up the Pskov Mission in Nazi-Occupied Russia during the war.

[arrogantsob]

There is no question that the German Army was never forced back into Germany and, therefore, the claim that it had never been “defeated” was plausible to those who did not examine the realities of the situation. But, it was a spent force only months away from destruction. And the Germany economy was on the verge of collapse; it could not supply the economic war sufficient for victory.

Germany did suffer greatly during the war from consumer goods shortages so they did know what the price of war was but the removal of the Army intact and THEN its destruction by the politicians allowed Herr Hitler to get away with that claim. Like people in other places the Germans loved to blame their politicians forgetting that they, like all politicians, resemble and are a function of the People.

It was, indeed, necessary for Germany to be completely crushed to end WWII for it to get the point. It is, also, unfortunate that it seems to be surrounded by blithering idiots.

[arrogantsob]

Now that is an interesting scenario. Another interesting scenario is the activities of Richard Sorge on whom Stalin depended to find out the Japanese intentions. As soon as Sorge convinced Stalin that Japan was not going to attack the USSR those troops started boarding trains to their Western front.

[arrogantsob]

It is highly unlikely, to me, that Stalin would have considered attacking Germany. What is a total certainty is that he would have aided elements within the conquered countries which would be resisting the German control. Industry had already begun to move East of the Urals out of the immediate reach of the Germans.

Another point unaddressed is that the dynamism of the Nazi party was its life. By its very nature it could not pause, reflect, consolidate or do anything except march on. It was a revolutionary, left-wing party devoted to changing everything about German life, everything.

[arrogantsob]

Consider the advantages to Germany of having the Ukraine as a secure link in its supply chain to the front, rather than one which swarmed with partisan activity. Just that one change would have been significant.

[jocon307]

I never knew that about the Poles! But I have to say your other examples are all rather antique.

When I’m finally prepared to take over the world I’m going to reach out for you to aid my quest.

I’d probably be a pretty bad dictator though, I have very little interest in what other people do.

I just don’t have that ambition to monitor soda intake, find out if a person wears glasses, determine what is “fair”; I’m just very apathetic, I lack the competitive spirit.

[Cronos]

I never knew that about the Poles! Neither did I until I came here and read "God's playground: a history of Poland" -- in fact this year is the 400th anniversary of this and the Polish conservative newspapers are asking "why isn't the govt making any note of this?"

Also, I found out that the Russians actually have a holiday for this! And they had it during communism as well. :)

So the biggest enemy for the Muscowites were the Poles

[Cronos]

But I have to say your other examples are all rather antique

you are correct. the thing is that right from the Ural mountains to the dykes of the Netherlands is all flat land, easy for marauders to invade and take over.

[Cronos]

Correct. they could have also use the ukrainian dislike of Poles to their advantage.