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Just wondering. Thanks.
1 posted on 06/04/2012 7:00:28 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch
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To: InvisibleChurch

That depends on who came to power after Hitler.


2 posted on 06/04/2012 7:04:20 PM PDT by VietVet (I am old enough to know who I am and what I believe, and I 'm not inclined to apologize for any of)
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To: InvisibleChurch

That depends on who came to power after Hitler.


3 posted on 06/04/2012 7:04:31 PM PDT by VietVet (I am old enough to know who I am and what I believe, and I 'm not inclined to apologize for any of)
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To: InvisibleChurch

That depends on who came to power after Hitler.


4 posted on 06/04/2012 7:04:48 PM PDT by VietVet (I am old enough to know who I am and what I believe, and I 'm not inclined to apologize for any of)
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To: InvisibleChurch

That depends on who came to power after Hitler.


5 posted on 06/04/2012 7:04:57 PM PDT by VietVet (I am old enough to know who I am and what I believe, and I 'm not inclined to apologize for any of)
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To: InvisibleChurch
I was reading “Devil's Guard,” the memiors of an SS partisan-hunter, and wondering the same thing. I imagine that Guiderin (sic?) and/or Rommel would have taken control and negotiated for an acceptable peace with the western allies, but continued the war with Russia, perhaps with western aid. As for the holocaust, I dunno. It was pretty well underway and would the gestapo have stood by and let it end if the new German leaders wished it to? I think that the average German citizen, those who knew of it, were probably ashamed and would have been relieved to see it ended.
6 posted on 06/04/2012 7:06:24 PM PDT by Copenhagen Smile
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To: InvisibleChurch
Depends on the time-line. If he's whacked before the Russian invasion by Germany, They fight.

If he's killed after that winter vacation the Krauts took in Russia, they sue for peace, and everything stops, IMHO ............................................ FRegards

7 posted on 06/04/2012 7:06:35 PM PDT by gonzo ( Buy more ammo, dammit! You should already have the firearms ... FRegards)
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To: InvisibleChurch

Actually, the power of the Reich lives on only now it’s called islam.


8 posted on 06/04/2012 7:08:13 PM PDT by evad (STOP SPENDING, STOP SPENDING, STOP SPENDING. It's the SPENDING Stupid)
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To: InvisibleChurch

Years before when?


9 posted on 06/04/2012 7:10:26 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Obama must Go.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

Adolph Galland, who was the commander of the Luftwaffe fighter command and was also a 100+ victories ace had some interesting things to say about Hitler.

Before he became probably near insane, Hitler had a very good military mind. Galland said he often made the right call over the objections of his generals.

Somewhere along the way he became so inflexible that he was harming them greatly. For instance when they wanted to use the ME-262 as a fighter Hitler countered them and insisted in it being a blitz bomber. They could have had it nearly a year earlier as a fighter and it might have made the difference.

Galland said even there Hitler was not entirely wrong as you will not win a war on defense but also if your cities are being bombed into non existence you would be far better off destroying those bombers before trying to take the offensive again.

If another member of the inner circle of the Nazi party had taken over, I think they would have continued the death camps.

I think if Admiral Doenitz who really did take over for Hitler was in charge, they would have been stopped and Doenitz would have tried for peace but it probably was just not possible until Germany had been defeated.


14 posted on 06/04/2012 7:17:43 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: InvisibleChurch
I think you would have had to have gotten a number of top Nazis to bring things to a halt...Goering,Himmler,Goebels,Donitz among others.
17 posted on 06/04/2012 7:28:52 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Bill Ayers Was *Not* "Just Some Guy In The Neighborhood")
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To: InvisibleChurch

The war would have been shorter. If someone had taken over, he would have wanted to end the war because Germany was doomed by the Spring of 1942. Many Germans knew that. That is when the huge bombing of Germany started. The US would have won the war even if Germany had better jet fighters. We had the BOMB.


18 posted on 06/04/2012 7:46:49 PM PDT by Ecliptic (.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

as a multi std infested megalomaniac, the likely answer is better strategic minds(who were in place) would have been promoted before the set backs so on balance removing Hitler before 1943 would have been a net negative. The question to ask is once the usa entered would a rational power sue for peace? The winning of he cold war was in fact the Russians suing for peace with out the paper work.

Back to ww2. Hitler’s strategic blunders. dis-allocation of resources and waste of experience/knowledge, with in a confined industrial base, all makes a boxed in advisory.

So a deranged leader with unlimited power, literally playing live chess vs professional warriors.

I wouldn’t change anything, you might get a competent, strategic leader, non infested, and willing to stick with the ruskies.

I morn the deaths, but look at not just ww2 but 1951-1980.


19 posted on 06/04/2012 7:47:44 PM PDT by waynesa98
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To: InvisibleChurch

1. I would say no. If anything a new ruler may have stepped out of the way of the generals causing the war to last longer. I.E. not leaving Paulus stuck in Stalingrad till the last man and many other “fortress” orders.

2. The holocost would have continued. The upper ranks of the Nazis were ate up with antisemitism. Antisemitism was also not merely hatred of the Jews, it was a belief that they caused Germany to lose the last war and secretly controlled everything. Hitler certainly did not create antisemitism, it was quite healthy before he joined the Nazi party.


21 posted on 06/04/2012 7:52:54 PM PDT by When do we get liberated? (A socialist is a communist who realizes he must suck at the tit of Capitalism.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

Those are very interesting questions, imponderable in some respects. My opinions:

1: Had Hitler been assassinated years earlier, would the war have lasted longer because better military minds might have held more sway or would the leaders have decided to cut their losses and surrendered?

Depends on how many years earlier. Without Hitler or someone like him who was a sparkplug, a warhead, as it were, Germany might have never developed the ultra nationalist leanings, (maybe mandates would be a better word) that led them to seek territory and conquest and persecution of the Jews (and other ginned-up outcast groups) out of the terrible depression it was going through from the late 20’s into the 30’s. Germany was badly humilated in WW1 and the after-effects of losing the war and particularly the oppressive reparations it was forced to endure might have led it into much more of a meek stance. One can imagine that only a few programming switches had to be flipped for Germany to go warlike, but without the fiery charisma of a Hitler, it may well have never developed as it did. Now if Hitler had been assasinated AFTER the Nazi party came to power, and after the Nazi regime had established itself and above all, started the war, then the German march to war might have been a lot more successful. As is, they ran over most of Europe. I believe that few historians would argue that the Nazis in large part defeated themselves with the overreach into Russia in 1941.

2: Would the holocaust come to an end or would it have continued?

The holocaust was a massive national project but it was founded upon the ultra nationalism sparked by Hitler and arguably was so audaciously evil that perhaps only a Hitler might have imagined it and worked to pursue it as a reality.

So most of my answer is, it would depend upon where things sat at the moment Hitler had been assassinated. If it was 1940, the war might have been more successful for Germany. Before the Russian adventure, Germany really had had few setbacks. Maybe Germany “lost” the Battle of Britain, but that was merely failing to achieve a goal. It started and ended and chewed up some pilots and some planes. No doubt, it was a negative to their morale. But once they decided they “lost”, the bleeding stopped and they turned their attention elsewhere. Russia and the battle for Russia was a cancer that ate up more and more German resources over time. Furthermore, it activated the Russian military against Germany and that might have never happened had Germany left Russia more or less alone.


22 posted on 06/04/2012 7:56:03 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (A conservative, a liberal and a moderate walk into a bar. Bartender says "what'll it be, Mitt?")
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To: InvisibleChurch

Prior to Hitler attacking Russia, Russia was an Axis power.

Communism likely would have spread throughout most of Europe before the US would have had any justification to intervene.

Assassination isn’t the solution for solving international disputes as long as national politics placed the leaders into power. National leaders might conveniently focus the thinking of a body politic with one or a handful of people, but the real conflicts involve bodies of people and how they think as a group.


23 posted on 06/04/2012 7:59:01 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

There were a number of times some of his generals plotted to remove him. There was one plan that was to occur right before they invaded Poland. There would have been no war and no holocaust.


24 posted on 06/04/2012 8:09:33 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: InvisibleChurch
As a student of WWII, it's my opinion that the only organization that was capable of ridding Nazi Germany of Hitler was the military. Given that, combat operations would have been much more successful since Hitler was, at best, a completely inept commander. The issue of the concentration camps is not so clear. Had the military been successful in orchestrating an actual coup d’etat, part of the “Valkyrie Group's” plan was to arrest Himmler and a large portion of the Nazi party apparatus, so I think the murder of the “undesirables” would have ceased.

Most of the Wehrmacht officers were professionals and were at odds with the political elements of the Nazi government. This is only speculation, but it does pose interesting, “what ifs”.

25 posted on 06/04/2012 8:11:55 PM PDT by cgchief
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To: InvisibleChurch
As a student of WWII, it's my opinion that the only organization that was capable of ridding Nazi Germany of Hitler was the military. Given that, combat operations would have been much more successful since Hitler was, at best, a completely inept commander. The issue of the concentration camps is not so clear. Had the military been successful in orchestrating an actual coup d’etat, part of the “Valkyrie Group's” plan was to arrest Himmler and a large portion of the Nazi party apparatus, so I think the murder of the “undesirables” would have ceased.

Most of the Wehrmacht officers were professionals and were at odds with the political elements of the Nazi government. This is only speculation, but it does pose interesting, “what ifs”.

26 posted on 06/04/2012 8:13:06 PM PDT by cgchief
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To: InvisibleChurch
I believe the Hitler assassination question depends on WHEN he was killed.

If he had been killed after invading the USSR, it would have made no difference. The remaining German leadership may have surrendered w/o Hitler's insistence on a fight to the death, ending the war sooner rather than later. The German military knew the war was lost after Stalingrad.

If Hitler had been assassinated before invading the USSR, Germany may have beaten Britain, giving Germany North Africa & the Middle East, all that oil, & no opponent at its back as it invaded East. Hitler canceled the invasion of Britain to prepare to invade the USSR.

With Britain out of the war, antagonism between Germany & the US would have decreased. With a dead Hitler, Germany might not have declared war on the US in Dec. 1941, if ever. With no base of operation (Britain) in Europe, FDR may have been satisfied to remain neutral in Europe while fighting the Japanese. A US war in the Atlantic would have been considerably more difficult with Britain & probably Ireland in German hands.

German generals had begged Hitler to wait a year before invading the USSR, to rearm & rebuild the German military. Hitler's premature invasion East probably cost him the war.

The Holocaust would have likely continued w/o Hitler as the Nazis would retain power after Hitler, & war production depended on slave labor.

28 posted on 06/04/2012 8:24:04 PM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: InvisibleChurch

Wasn’t there more then forty known plots to assassinate Hitler? Some as far back as 1939? Not to forget. Many times during his parades through German towns people had the chance to shoot him. Would killing Hitler have prevent the holocaust? Only if he was killed before it started. When did the nazis start killing so called mentally retarded people? Not to forget forced sterilization. He would have to been killed before 1935 to prevent the holocaust. If not earlier.


35 posted on 06/04/2012 8:38:02 PM PDT by DMG2FUN
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