[BroJoeK]

fso301: "It's been some time since I went down this path of study but my impression has always been that there are disconnects between what many believe FDR said, what he actually said, what he did and probably most importantly what he had the power to do."

We have debated this subject on Homer's threads several times now.
My references are:
Saving the Jews, Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Holocaust by Robert N. Rosen

And Churchill and the Jews, a Lifelong Friendship by Martin Gilbert

The bottom line for both books is that while we may think they didn't do everything they shoulda, at the time it was believed they did everything they coulda.

fso301: "Perhaps the following quote from the U.S. Holocaust Museum summarizes my general understanding:

"his increased involvement in the refugee issue helped to fill the combined German and Austrian quotas for the first and only time: 27,300 Germans and Austrians, mostly Jewish refugees, entered the United States in 1939."

Here is Rosen's response (page 441):

"World War II began in September 1939.
By then Hitler had power over the Jews of Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia, but not the Jews of Poland and Russia, who later became his chief victims.

"The Jewish population of Germany in 1933 was about 500,000 (525,000 if the Saar is included after 1935).
Rubinstein estimated that at most, 24,700 Jewish children and youth remained within the pre-1933 boundaries of Germany in September 1939.

"Most Austrian Jews also survived.
Of the 185,000 Jews in Austria at the time of the Anschluss (March 12, 1938), 126,000 emigrated by the end of 1939.
Sixty-eight percent of Austrian Jewry fled within 21 months.

"The start of the war sealed the fate of those Germans, Austrians, and Czechs who stayed behind.
Rarely in history have so many escaped certain persecution so quickly.

"From 1938 to 1940, the United States responded positively to the crisis.
In that period of restrictive immigration laws and wide-spread antisemitism, Jews comprised half of all immigrants admitted to the United States.
The democracies had a small window of opportunity to take in the bulk of the Reich's Jews and they succeeded, even given the difficult circumstances.

"While it is true that the United States had a strict quota system established in the 1920s, the quota for Germany (25,957 per year) was highest for any country other than Britain (65,721).
It was much higher than Italy (5,802), Ireland (17,853), or Spain (252), and ironically, German and Austrian Jews benefited from the German quota.

"It is well to remember that, of the nearly six million Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust, 4,563,000 were Polish and Russian and 125,000 were German.

"The United States accepted twice as many refugees as the rest of the world combined, 200,000 of 300,000.

"FDR tried to do even more.
He held his nose and vigorously pursued a ransom scheme, the Rublee Plan, with the Nazis in 1938 and 1939 through the IGCR, which failed only because the Nazis would not agree to let the Jews go.
His willingness to support this scheme came from the fact that he was far ahead of the rest of the world, including the American Jewish leadership, in seeing what might lay ahead if the Jews of Germany were not ransomed."

fso301: "One could say FDR had an "anywhere but here" attitude toward assisting Jewish resettlement."

By US law in effect since the 1920s there were only so many immigrants the US could accept, period.
FDR did what he could to find homes for the others.

fso301: "We didn't know is not an excuse.
Over the past year, followers of Homer's daily NYT thread have read numerous credible reports of mass slaughter taking place, especially in East Europe."

And during 1942 or 1943, President Roosevelt coulda done what, exactly, about it?

fso301: "Without using the example of British humanitarian assistance during the Greek famine and American food shipments to Vichy,"

The death toll in Greece from famine was around 300,000 before food relief shipments began arriving in 1942.
These were possible because of agreements between Allies and Nazis.
No such agreements were possible regarding Jews in Poland and Russia.

fso301: "I bet FDR had strongest support from the secular socialist Jews he could most easily relate to."

Secular or not, American Jews supported FDR's efforts to save Jews in Europe.

[fso301]

We have debated this subject on Homer's threads several times now.

And I'm confident we will continue to do so.

My references are: Saving the Jews, Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Holocaust by Robert N. Rosen

And Churchill and the Jews, a Lifelong Friendship by Martin Gilbert

Thanks! I always appreciate book recommendations. I'm not going to be able to read them in time for our present discussion but I will make it a point to check them out.

The bottom line for both books is that while we may think they didn't do everything they shoulda, at the time it was believed they did everything they coulda.

Was that based on a decision to do the right thing, or doing what was best for FDR? The difference can be significant.

-snip-

Here is Rosen's response (page 441):

"World War II began in September 1939. By then Hitler had power over the Jews of Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia, but not the Jews of Poland and Russia, who later became his chief victims.

"The Jewish population of Germany in 1933 was about 500,000 (525,000 if the Saar is included after 1935). Rubinstein estimated that at most, 24,700 Jewish children and youth remained within the pre-1933 boundaries of Germany in September 1939

My understanding is that there were significantly more than the Rubenstein figure of Jews in Germany as of 9/39. Perhaps this is a technical difference between Jews living within the pre-1933 boundaries versus 1939 boundaries.

"From 1938 to 1940, the United States responded positively to the crisis. In that period of restrictive immigration laws and wide-spread antisemitism, Jews comprised half of all immigrants admitted to the United States.

Do the authors provide numbers to support their claims? I already provided numbers showing that the quota of immigrants admitted to the United States from Germany was only met in 1939.

The democracies had a small window of opportunity to take in the bulk of the Reich's Jews and they succeeded, even given the difficult circumstances.

I think this is where our perspectives differ sharply. I see the democracies as having had ample time to prevent the need for any emmigration but they didn't. While Britain and France were appeasing Hitler, FDR wheeled and dealed with the Nazis right on through the 1930's. Had FDR cut off trade with Germany and Japan around 1937, what would the stateside economic impact have been to the socialist utopia FDR was trying to create?

By early 1939 when the democracies began to realize they had a crisis largely of their own making, whatever they began doing was too little, too late.

"While it is true that the United States had a strict quota system established in the 1920s, the quota for Germany (25,957 per year) was highest for any country other than Britain (65,721).

It was much higher than Italy (5,802), Ireland (17,853), or Spain (252), and ironically, German and Austrian Jews benefited from the German quota.

Ok but did the authors provide an annual breakdown of immigration figures throughout the 1930's so that we can see what kind of demand there was for U.S. visas throughout the 1930's?

"FDR tried to do even more. He held his nose and vigorously pursued a ransom scheme, the Rublee Plan, with the Nazis in 1938 and 1939 through the IGCR, which failed only because the Nazis would not agree to let the Jews go. His willingness to support this scheme came from the fact that he was far ahead of the rest of the world, including the American Jewish leadership, in seeing what might lay ahead if the Jews of Germany were not ransomed."

I will have to read the books you cite in order to better understand the author's claim of FDR's far-sightedness. I don't see the evidence based on the snippet you provided.

By US law in effect since the 1920s there were only so many immigrants the US could accept, period. FDR did what he could to find homes for the others.

Yep. FDR sure had his hands tied by U.S. laws, didn't he. Powerless to do anything. /sarc.

And during 1942 or 1943, President Roosevelt coulda done what, exactly, about it?

As I mentioned earlier in this post, by '42-'43, it was too late. Let's see what Homer posts over the next two years but so far, I don't recall reading any articles where FDR even publicly addresses the plight of the Jews.

Perhaps an offer could have been made to pay German transport of Jews to say Trieste where they would then be taken aboard specially designated ships via Suez to Madagascar. I don't see such theoretical public offer being anything other than one the allies would hope the Germans declined.

The death toll in Greece from famine was around 300,000 before food relief shipments began arriving in 1942. These were possible because of agreements between Allies and Nazis. No such agreements were possible regarding Jews in Poland and Russia.

Did FDR even try to reach any agreement concerning Jews in Eastern Europe???