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To: prplhze2000; All
Although this is not necessarily easy to do, patriots need to get themselves up to speed on Congress's Article I, Section 8-limited powers where treaties are concerned.

Regarding Section 8 versus disturbing treaties that corrupt Congress is currently negotiating, please consider the following. Note that Thomas Jefferson had officially written that Congress cannot use its constitutional power to negotiate treaties as a back door to forcing citizens to comply with foreign laws based on powers which the states have never delegated to Congress via the Constitution.

"In giving to the President and Senate a power to make treaties, the Constitution meant only to authorize them to carry into effect, by way of treaty, any powers they might constitutionally exercise." --Thomas Jefferson: The Anas, 1793.

"Surely the President and Senate cannot do by treaty what the whole government is interdicted from doing in any way." --Thomas Jefferson: Parliamentary Manual, 1812.

Next, since we're discussing international banking laws (and international gun laws, and international children's rights laws, and international environmental protection laws, as examples) did you look in Section 8 but not find any clauses which reasonably give Congress the specific power to regulate banking? Well there's a good reason for that. Note that James Madison's daily journal of Convention debates indicates that the delegates had discussed the idea of granting Congress the specific power to regulate banking, but had decided against it.

"Mr. KING. The States will be prejudiced and divided into parties by it. In Philada. & New York, It will be referred to the establishment of a Bank, which has been a subject of contention in those Cities. In other places it will be referred to mercantile monopolies." --Madison Debates, Tuesday September 14, 1787.

So why is Congress now not only regulating banking, the Federal Reserve based on constitutonally nonexistent federal government powers, but also trying to force US citizens to comply with international banking laws regardless that the states have never delegated to Congress via the Constitution the specific power to regulate banking?

It turns out that traitor Alexander Hamilton had backedstabbed his fellow delegates to the Con-Con by being the first DC bureaucrat to wrongly encourage Congress to overstep its Section 8-limited powers and establish a national bank against the intentions of the delegates after the Constitution had been ratified.

In fact, regardless that George Washington, president of the Con-Con, had evidently slept through (gone fishing?) discussions which decided against a national bank, when Washington officially asked Jefferson for clarification about the constitutionality of a national bank, Jefferson simply borrowed material from James Madison's daily journal of Convention debates to refresh Washington's memory.

"Mr. KING. The States will be prejudiced and divided into parties by it. In Philada. & New York, It will be referred to the establishment of a Bank, which has been a subject of contention in those Cities. In other places it will be referred to mercantile monopolies." --Madison Debates Tuesday September 14, 1787.

And where using its treaty power as a back door to find "hidden" powers in Section 8 is concerned, it turns out that Constitution-ignoring justices of the early 20th century ignored Jefferson's writings about Congress not being able to use it's treaty powers to force the states to comply with foreign laws that are based on powers which the states have never delegated to Congress via the Constitution. More specifically, Section 8-ignoring Congress successfully snowed the Supreme Court to force the states to comply with a treaty which protected wildlife. The case was Missouri v. Holland.

Note that Wikipedia indicates that Missouri v. Holland is the case that inspired the idea of the "living Constitution."

As a side note to Congress's Section 8-limited powers, please consider the following. There arguably needs to be a federal law requiring foreign diplomats to pass a course on Congress's Section 8-limited powers and Article V before being allowed to negotiate treaties with federal lawmakers. Then Constitution-impaired federal lawmakers will at least learn about their Section 8-limited powers and Article V from foreign diplomats since they evidently don't want to hear about these power-limiting constitutional statutes from the voters.

Also, we need to consider the pros and cons of requiring Congress to put time limits on some or all federal laws, possibly time limits also on constitutional delegations of specific powers to Congress.

Finally, as I've ranted elsewhere, patriots are probably not going to hear the specifics about our corrupt federal government from Section 8-ignoring Fx News. I'm convinced that Fx News is a part of the Left's propaganda machine.

14 posted on 11/24/2012 3:37:06 PM PST by Amendment10
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To: Amendment10; All
Sorry, I inadvertently included the "Mr. King" excerpt twice in my previous post. The excerpt that is supposed to be from Jefferson's official report to George Washington which refers to the excerpt about the discussion about banking that King was participating in at the Con-Con is the following.
"A proposition was made to them to authorize Congress to open canals, and an amendatory one to empower them to incorporate. But the whole was rejected, and one of the reasons for rejection urged in debate was, that then they would have a power to erect a bank, which would render the great cities, where there were prejudices and jealousies on the subject, adverse to the reception of the Constitution." --Jefferson's Opinion on the Constitutionality of a National Bank : 1791.

15 posted on 11/24/2012 3:55:54 PM PST by Amendment10
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