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AP IMPACT: China overtaking US as global trader
Associated Press ^ | Dec 2, 11:05 AM EST | JOE McDONALD and YOUKYUNG LEE

Posted on 12/02/2012 4:20:26 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network

EDITOR'S NOTE - This is the first installment in "China's Reach," a project that will analyze China's influence with its trading partners over three decades, and explore how that is changing business, politics and daily life.

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: china; us
We had better wake up. Soon.
1 posted on 12/02/2012 4:20:32 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

How can that be when their economy is collapsing into a smoking crater.


2 posted on 12/02/2012 4:23:08 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Is that sarcasm?


3 posted on 12/02/2012 4:27:54 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

No, should it be? China’s economy is worse than ours, and probably worse than Europe’s. I know they don’t like to talk about that in the U.S. media, but it’s still true.


4 posted on 12/02/2012 4:32:29 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

We won’t wake up anytime soon. The “free trade” crowd will enable the communists to overtake us as the world’s economic power within 10 years, and in the next five or so, China will seek to dislodge the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency. Then we’re pretty much done, because oil prices will climb without any impediment and the US economy can’t deal with high oil prices.


5 posted on 12/02/2012 4:33:55 PM PST by NVDave
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To: nickcarraway

I think you are reading 20-year old news stories.

Just my .02.


6 posted on 12/02/2012 4:34:05 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: NVDave

By 2020, the U.S. is supposed to be the leading producer of oil in the world.


7 posted on 12/02/2012 4:35:34 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: NVDave

Holy crap.

I agree enthusiastically with your post.

Though I would (like) a different result.

Well stated.


8 posted on 12/02/2012 4:37:04 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: NVDave
The U.S. will dislodge the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency, as the "free trade" crowd has been warning for decades.

Meanwhile, the "protectionist" crowd will continue to clamor for higher taxes as a solution to the problem, to everyone's amusement.

9 posted on 12/02/2012 4:37:18 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Quite the opposite. I think you are reading old news. China’s growth rate is going way below where it needs to be. It’s housing market died. And that all comes with the background of a demographic time bomb. Look how weird China’s politics have been this year.


10 posted on 12/02/2012 4:40:10 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: NVDave
I guarantee that Obama’s government regulations are choking the U.S. economy and that China is far above U.S. now cause of socialist Obama. Compare a China city with Detroit, bankrupt california cities etc:

China city before private companies and today after private companies(capitalism)

In contrasts thanks to Obama and democrats the U.S.A cities are degrading into hellholes of socialism (crime and decay) run by democrats.The U.S.A is now the more socialist country. Obama borrows trillions from China to pay gov workers, workers non-profits, and welfare cretins in the U.S. that don't produce anything. Those of us that do produce should go Galt as a protest imo. screw them

11 posted on 12/02/2012 4:40:56 PM PST by Democrat_media (limit government to 5000 words of laws. how to limit gov Quantify limited government ...)
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To: nickcarraway

Please perhaps you could take some time to go find some “gloom and doom” Chinese economic stories.

The ones I see have China already replacing us with a 3.something unemployment rate while we are double that in the extreme most optimistic measurements - more like triple or even worse.

All Apple and most phones, computers, radios, and all our imported hardware, household goods, tools, frankly just about everything is already imported from China.

We are 16 trillion in debt, and our president wants to keep it up and BORROW MORE MONEY.

We need to stop importing everything now.

We need to make things. It is how we became strong, and losing that capability is a reason we are becoming weaker.

Now.


12 posted on 12/02/2012 4:45:39 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Democrat_media

Are you joking? China has many completely empty cities, that the government paid to build, but no one lives in them and no one can afford to.


13 posted on 12/02/2012 4:49:01 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Please perhaps you could take some time to go find some “gloom and doom” Chinese economic stories.

Yes, I would love to. You can't just listen to what the mainstream media spoonfeeds you. Unlike you believe, they aren't always giving you the whole story. The oligarchs of China have been very worried, because of all the rioting by the people.

14 posted on 12/02/2012 4:51:17 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

U.S. should be far above where it is.

U.S. is in decline cause of this socialist piece of crap Obama and its government regulations. This communist Obama is in the process of stealing our freedom and our property as it has taken most of our opportunity.


15 posted on 12/02/2012 4:52:00 PM PST by Democrat_media (limit government to 5000 words of laws. how to limit gov Quantify limited government ...)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Modification:

Not all Apple, I retract that statement.

But a whole bunch of them, anyway.


16 posted on 12/02/2012 4:53:07 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Global slowdown predicted as China records 11th month of recession (This article is from 9/20/2012. Now China has 14 months of recession. And that's based on numbers that the is probably propping up)
17 posted on 12/02/2012 4:55:09 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
China Can't Hide The Recession Any Longer (Forbes, 10/16/2012)
18 posted on 12/02/2012 4:57:27 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Democrat_media

I was only talking about China.


19 posted on 12/02/2012 4:58:43 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Yes ok, but your article does not cover China’s unemployment rate which is half of ours. If not better.

China is growing fast. Fast.

China is also dealing with us on an unequal basis. That did not matter so much when China was relatively small, and we were relatively big.

Now the same rules are still in place, and our relative sizes now are about the same.

We “compete” (sell out mostly) in a ridiculously unequal set of trade rules.

Those rules must change.

And China’s unemployment rate is fabulous, compared with ours or anyone in the West.


20 posted on 12/02/2012 5:00:11 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Democrat_media

The Obama agenda is purposeful and intentional. See Agenda: Grinding America Down. It connects all the dots for the marxism side. They do not touch on his Islamic character which is a little more hidden from the public.

China? Still Chinese. Just like Russians, on a whole not that smart. 95% of all inventions last year were made here. Let them copy.

However once Obama is done, we won’t be making bicycles!


21 posted on 12/02/2012 5:00:25 PM PST by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: nickcarraway
Are you joking? China has many completely empty cities, that the government paid to build, but no one lives in them and no one can afford to.

The USA has nine cities with a population of over one million.

China has 163.

Those ghost cities will fill up, soon enough. And one visit to Shanghai's Pudong district is enough to make clear to any American that his country is stuck in neutral.

22 posted on 12/02/2012 5:03:31 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: nickcarraway

My point is the U.S. not above China but U.S. below China , U.S. not above anything as the U.S. economy is crap. U.S. just surviving on debt ,printing money, borrowing from China etc. all cause of this Obama piece of crap.

U.S. should be far above where it is.

U.S. is in decline cause of this socialist piece of crap Obama and its government regulations. This communist Obama is in the process of stealing our freedom and our property as it has taken most of our opportunity


23 posted on 12/02/2012 5:05:53 PM PST by Democrat_media (limit government to 5000 words of laws. how to limit gov Quantify limited government ...)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
We have a fundamental disagreement. You believe everything the Chinese government says, while I am very skeptical of what they say. The preponderance of the evidence is on my side. China's official unemployment numbers are probably off by a factor of half at least. (Unemployment there can be regional) In the last two years, the government has faced massive riots over unemployment.

Read this, for example:No One Trusts China's Unemployment Rate (October 5th, 2012)

24 posted on 12/02/2012 5:08:43 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

How about you go in any store, and see where everything in that store and every other store you shop at, is made?

Just a thought...


25 posted on 12/02/2012 5:11:12 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
The fact is you are being lied to by an ignorant media and unscrupulous financial advisors. They don't know what they are talking about. If you really believe that communists are trustworthy and capitalists aren't, why don't you believe Obama.

China is in a world of hurt. Do you even know about China's demographic time bomb? Stop parroting the media, and do your own research.

26 posted on 12/02/2012 5:14:07 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

I believe it is you, who are being lied to by unscrupulous people, frankly.

I see China capturing the future from America without anyone in either party lifting a single finger to stop our destruction, and I am starting to get a bit frustrated by it all.

Frankly.


27 posted on 12/02/2012 5:17:26 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Democrat_media
My point is the U.S. not above China but U.S. below China

You are just plain wrong. Did Obama tell you that. The fact is, the U.S. is in a better position to outlast the recession/depression than China. China will be screwed by any downturn in our economy, plus they are carrying trillions of dollars. You may not like that fact, but it's true.

28 posted on 12/02/2012 5:18:20 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

we’d be overtaking them if obam was f@cking them over the way he’s doing to us. no coal, no other domestic energy, epa gone wild, redistribution of wealth to his peeps, and doung everything posible to kil jobs and put people on the govt dole.


29 posted on 12/02/2012 5:23:48 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I never said that China isn’t selling tons of stuff in the U.S.. I never said it was a good idea. (Blame Nixon, not me)
Have you ever considered that all that stuff has to be bought by Americans for China to make any money. If U.S. Americans aren’t buying, China is hurting. Their 2 billion serfs don’t have that money. Besides that, now their are countries that can make stuff cheaper than China like, Malaysia, Pakistan, Vietnam. And those countries are often stealing higher margin products from China.


30 posted on 12/02/2012 5:24:05 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
I believe it is you, who are being lied to by unscrupulous people, frankly.

Well, I've given you actual evidence. You haven't offered any evidence except unsourced rumors, from CNN, President Obama, and crooked stockbrokers. Zero evidence.

31 posted on 12/02/2012 5:26:49 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

if they ever are lived in you gotta wonder how well they’ll have held up with no normal usage. all the gaskets dry out and rot, etc?


32 posted on 12/02/2012 5:27:30 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
I see China capturing the future from America without anyone in either party lifting a single finger to stop our destruction, and I am starting to get a bit frustrated by it all.

You should be frustrated. The U.S. is in bad shape economically. But Europe and China are in far worse shape. Sorry. You can side with China, I'll side with the U.S.

I wouldn't bet $100 that the Chinese government won'y be overthrown in the next 5 years. That may not happen, but I wouldn't bet against it either.

33 posted on 12/02/2012 5:29:58 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Secret Agent Man

Most of them won’t be lived in. People can’t afford them. The real estate market crashed in China worse than ours did.


34 posted on 12/02/2012 5:31:49 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

I gave you one, that the unemployment rate in China is 3.something percent (ours is double or triple, perhaps even worse) which you seem to have ignored.

China is playing us, and our own companies are climbed onboard running their game right to the end. Which will be in less than 10 years, because that is the length of contracts for everyone foreign working in China.

I do not see that as a winning strategy at this point.

That is my point. We have been out-maneuvered.

It is time for us to change tactics. Make stuff to compete with China. And have real tariffs against their products in cases they are taking advantage of us.

(which increasingly seems to be in just about every market)

I do not agree with your assessment of things. I see us rushing full-speed into an empty hole.

Then what?


35 posted on 12/02/2012 5:33:24 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: nickcarraway
No obama has desroyed the U.S.

the U.S. had accumulated 2 centuries of wealth, unlimited natural resources, etc. so it shouldn't have to borrow $1 trillion per year and about to go bankrupt with 120 trillion $ in unfunded liabilities. Any of you who think that all that and more means the U.S is above anyone well I know what your agenda is (pro Obama). The U.S is worse off than Europe , China etc as the unfunded liabilities , debt etc. greater.

36 posted on 12/02/2012 5:45:56 PM PST by Democrat_media (limit government to 5000 words of laws. how to limit gov Quantify limited government ...)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
I gave you one, that the unemployment rate in China is 3.something percent

You gave no link to that number. Even the Chinese government claims it's 6.25% But the real number is more like 12%0-15%. Since the government doesn't give honest numbers, we don't know for sure. Unemployment is a severe problem in some areas. I do not believe their unemployment is lower than the U.S. rate.

37 posted on 12/02/2012 6:17:42 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

I apologize, I found a real source and the number is slightly higher than the one I had heard:

4.1%.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/167111/unemployment-rate-in-china/


38 posted on 12/02/2012 6:33:29 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Yes...we need to wake up very soon.

Our Free Trade Globalist policies do not work. It is failing so bad even Communist China will eventually be knocked down...you cannot trade with someone that has nothing to trade

We will never counter Obama Socialism with Free Trade Communism. Need to end the latter, now, to deal with the former


39 posted on 12/02/2012 6:38:11 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (Illegal Aliens do not pay Social Security...Employers do)
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To: 1rudeboy

Meanwhile, the “protectionist” crowd will continue to clamor for higher taxes as a solution to the problem, to everyone’s amusemen


Looks like the Free Traders are the ones pushing “higher taxes”. So many Americans do not make enough anymore to even pay taxes

You place tariffs on foreign goods, you do not need income taxes. Worked for our Founding Fathers and the next 150 years or so after that.

I will take American Protectionism over Chinese Communism anyday...too bad you do now


40 posted on 12/02/2012 6:41:38 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (Illegal Aliens do not pay Social Security...Employers do)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: nickcarraway

a) Demographics: China, South Korea and Japan all have demographic implosions coming.

China will be hurt the least of the bunch, because they have the least in the way of social spending for their aged and the least debt:GDP. Japan is screwed, because they’re running in excess of 230% debt:GDP, and much of their paper is held by their own citizens - who will have to redeem is pretty soon to fund their own retirements and health care needs. At their nearly negligible yields, Japan will probably have trouble peddling the roll on that paper off-shore. Who’s going to buy it?

The US has a demographic problem too, BTW. Ours is actually worse. We have our rampant increase in claimants on Social Security and Medicare, then we have over 50% of all immigrants (over a half-million people) who go onto some form of social welfare every year. We’re being spent into oblivion at both ends of the age range, and on top of that we’re running a trillion dollar deficit, trade deficits and current account deficits. We’re running over a $100B/quarter current account deficit. China runs a current account surplus.

b) You reference the ghost cities China has built. OK, so what? The PRC has so much cash on their books that they could pile up billions of dollars in a pile and set it alight. They’re not in hock to anyone.

We are - to them.

c) OK, so they’re in recession. Right now, that means their growth has fallen from about 10% GDP per year to a bit over 7% GDP growth per year. China does not have negative GDP growth - they’re merely seeing slower GDP growth than in the prior years.

This is a problem the US will never have the luxury of having again - 7% GDP growth.

Now... why is China in such trouble again?


42 posted on 12/02/2012 11:26:57 PM PST by NVDave
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To: SeminoleCounty
You place tariffs on foreign goods, you do not need income taxes. Worked for our Founding Fathers and the next 150 years or so after that.

Even more amusing is that you wrap yourself in the cloaks of the Founding Fathers in order to raise taxes.

Make no mistake the Constitution sees tariffs as a way to raise revenue. But not as a way to provide full employment at a "fair" wage, or to reduce the need for entitlement spending, or any other flavor of the day.

And frankly the Founding Fathers would laugh in your face if you promised that raising one tax now would reduce the need for another tax later.

So you want to eliminate income taxes and replace the revenue with tariff income? Let's see your plan.

43 posted on 12/03/2012 2:52:12 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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