Posted on 02/02/2013 6:53:38 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Whether they were hippies or not, I don’t know, but about not wanting to be understood, I recall from an interview with one of them, or perhaps the third guy, what’s his name, and my memory could be failing me now, I’ll admit.
It works, but the problem is it always lags behind the current C# .Net implementation. That shortcoming aside, it’s the only thing that makes coding for an iPhone even slightly tolerable.
I've found DataGridView to be a very flexible and easy control to use. I've been using C# since the day it came out (although not exclusively) and it has become my favorite when building application that will run on Windows.
I don’t program in any of those languages. I do, however write a mean regular expression, which the people at work who do use those languages seem to find quite useful.
One question: why do you feel PHP is heading toward obsolescence? I've seen others mention this and am not sure what they mean.
First, the comparisons are being made among compiled programming and interpreted scripting. Even leaving out the programming and looking at the scripting: PHP, Ruby, Javascript = apples, oranges, and bananas.
PHP is an extremely accessible client-side scripting language. PHP/mySQL are ubiquitous and if you add in the WordPress implementation they are fairly dominant.
Ruby is a wonderful framework, but is not nearly as accessible as PHP.
JQuery Javascript is the defacto standard for websites and will be for some time.
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Some the above wisdom does indeed have a shelf life for reasons I refuse to share because that knowledge gives me a competitive edge.
The same claim (and even sillier versions) have been made about C++, which Bjarne Stroustrup emphatically denies.
P.J. Plauger is a bit of a gremlin. On any given day he might have said anything on any give topic, and then have repudiated it later in the afternoon. Don't know what Aho or Pike might have said (they were MUCH more peripheral IIRC.)
A friend of mine does also. He works on power distribution management and tells me that Formula Translation is just the ticket for that purpose.
That's interesting, I never thought about using it for an iPhone. I was possibly going to learn Objective C but you've made me re-think that plan. So far I've done very little work with phones ... only programmed for Android using Java, which is a programming language I really don't care for.
I also do some programming in C# but still prefer Delphi. C# is so much like Delphi. Can definitely see C# roots being from Delphi and Anders Hejlsberg fingerprints in it.
It can't be meaner than what my former pal and mentor wrote and could not understand immediately after he wrote it, but when he did (understand it) he could not explain it understandably to anyone, and which regular expression despite or perhaps because of it all worked!
Two questions: 1) Have you written any code for the iPhone? and 2) What would your language of choice be on the iPhone if it could be anything (whether you’ve already coded for it or not?)
PHP exists to script web pages. It’s been expanded to allow you do a lot of stuff from other application layers, but it basically still serves that one layer. A key advantage is that it has a nice, shallow learning curve. And, as the backbone of Joomla, Drupal, etc., it ain’t going anywhere any time soon.
Perl is the former language of choice for doing some of the nitty-gritty web-development tasks that PHP isn’t particularly well suited for, but it was never terribly good for scripting web pages; it’s very easy to build highly idiosyncratic code which is undecipherable to all but the top programmers. Essentially, once you convince someone to allow you to develop a system in Perl, you have a job for life. And a lot of users of such code don’t exactly enjoy that feature.
Python is replacing Perl, but it also does what PHP does easily enough that there seems little reason to use both Python and PHP for one enterprise... except the vast arrays of PHP creations.
Your tone comes off like you’re disagreeing with me, but I can’t see where.
1) No, I've only written small test apps for android in Java. None of my clients have requested any phone apps yet.
2) C#. I thought I would have to learn Objective C, but someone else on the forum said it was possible to use C# with mono to do it.
You know what, Revolting Cat?
After reading through this thread, I believe I now know how my dog feels when the little woman and I are going over a grocery list!
So I’m going to dream about chasing rabbits now.
The few improvements that make C# a better C++ are not many, but they definitely do exist and have Hejlsberg's signature.
The one place where NO language has come anywhere close to C++ even now is in template metaprogramming and Generics. The Generics in Java are just OK, they are OK in Delphi, better in C#, but nobody has yet gotten a generic programming model as good as C++. And given design limitations of the CLR, C# is not likely to get there, stubborness on the part of the Java committee Java is never going to get thre, and the fact that Delphi is running out of steam (and $) I don't see it getting there either. Pity, really, because generic programming is a huge idea; and it's been like, "well, the C++ people expect generics so we'll do some half-assed implementation to make them happy."
Metaprogramming in .Net has gone in a completely different direction.
just making conversation.
Full disclosure: this is a "buy" product, and I have nothing to do with any aspect of selling or developing it. But I do use it.
My $0.02: Develop for Android FIRST. The developer tools are better and they're free, and the platform is as open as DOS/Windows (pre Metro.) It's Java, and once you get used to the limitations of the Dalvik VM it's a pretty good implementation. You download everything, install up to the latest OS, can be up and running in about an hour, and running your first "hello world" 'droid app on your own phone ten minutes later.
iPhone: Objective-C is the worst language ever invented. It's actually worse than Visual Basic. My tagline for this thread says it all. Objective-C is a rich man's toy, which, like Visual Basic, if it did not have a multi-Billion dollar sugar daddy insisting it continue to play a pivotal role in the strategic direction of the company against all common sense, would have ceased to exist long ago.
If you like Java, C++, C# or even Delphi, I guarantee you will despise Objective-C.
But Objective-C is not the biggest problem with iPhone. The biggest problem with iPhone is that Apple is so evil and so dedicated to making everyone who develops for the iPhone their own personal cubicle slave that you will be pulling your hair out over all the legal, economic and downright arbitary roadblocks that Apple throws in your way.
First: you must buy a Mac. Unlike 'droid, where you can develop on Mac, Linux or Windows, for iOS you must buy a Mac. I don't know how they get away with this requirement which clearly violates SEC's restrictions on bundling, but they do.
Second, you must pay $100 to download ANY app to your phone. That is correct: on your own phone, you as a developer will pay $100 to download your own "hello world" app to your own phone. You will have to go to Apples web page and plunk down the money up front and then wait for a provisioning certificate.
That $100 will NOT allow your friends, coworkers, betatesters and support people to use your app. Just YOU. Think of it as a small price to pay for being permitted to touch the awesomeness of Apple.
Third, your app must meet iPhone's guidelines to get into "The Store." You CANNOT develop apps just for a couple of friends or clients, unless you get them into the Corporate Program. [And most businesses do NOT qualify. Many who do, will NOT allow themselves to be qualified, because they have to agree to so many restrictions. Apple's evilness strikes again.]
So, if you want an app for 10 people in a small distribution, it must go through "The Store," and you must wait for approval. If Apple decides there are already "enough" apps like that, they won't approve it. If Apple decides they don't like the interface or that it violates their guidelines, they won't approve it. If you try to use any "out of channel" type of communication with the device, Apple won't approve it. [Because Apple also wants control of all content and all delivery channels on the device. This is one of the biggest ways they make money.] If your app uses any third party library that isn't already on the device, it's dead before you even start. If your app uses a newer version of, say, sqlite (which, thank heavens is on the device) you'd better make sure it's downwardly compatible to the version on the iPhone, because you CAN'T download a newer version.
So ... bottom line: you want to code for iPhone, make sure you have a lot of customers lined up in advance and that you're willing to play 100% by Apples rules. Because otherwise it is going to be too expensive and too cumbersome to do it. It's one of the reasons that 'droid has taken off, and Apple is going to remain stuck at their 16% share or whatever. That said, it's lucrative if you've got the customers. Or you've got a great idea for the mass market. Fortunately, my apps were already running on thousands of Palms and PPCs and customers were lined up for me. Your mileage may vary. If you're an Indy software developer or work for a small shop and do not have a product with customer loyalty, or your users are agnostic on the platform, I can't stress this strongly enough: go 'Droid FIRST. It's the kind of environment you're already used to if you're doing Windows or Linux or Unix or even legacy coding on mainframes.
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