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Is it common to have to provide my SS# for claim? (Vanity)

Posted on 09/09/2013 9:29:12 AM PDT by Java4Jay

My daughter just called and said her dentist needs my SS# to file a claim. She is 25 and covered under my policy. This seemed very odd so I came to FR for answers.Feedback welcome, thanks.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Health/Medicine
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1 posted on 09/09/2013 9:29:12 AM PDT by Java4Jay
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To: Java4Jay

Maybe under upcoming ObaMugabeCare?


2 posted on 09/09/2013 9:30:28 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: F15Eagle

That was my exact thought also


3 posted on 09/09/2013 9:31:57 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Java4Jay
Ask the dentist if he's going to contribute to your retirement. I never give out my SS# to anyone. Period.
If he insists, find a new dentist.
4 posted on 09/09/2013 9:32:03 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

Could insurance coverage now be taxable? Everyone said dental wouldn’t be affected under obamacare. Could this be another instance of “we had to pass it to see what was in it”?


5 posted on 09/09/2013 9:34:10 AM PDT by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: Java4Jay

It depends how your third party administrator uniquely identifies your family. Some still use the Employee SSN, many have switched to other identifiers. Check the card, it’s always on there.


6 posted on 09/09/2013 9:35:36 AM PDT by Technocrat (Romney-Ryan 2012 No I'm not changing my Sig)
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To: Java4Jay

Legally you can only be required to provide your SSN for SS and income tax purposes. But even the government ignores this.


7 posted on 09/09/2013 9:36:46 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the people. T Jefferson)
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To: Java4Jay

Is this a surprise when the IRS is in charge of healthcare!


8 posted on 09/09/2013 9:38:25 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall ; / ?)
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To: Technocrat

I’ve carried the same Blue Cross plan for many years and this is the first time I recall this ever happening.


9 posted on 09/09/2013 9:38:28 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: rawcatslyentist

The claim is for a normal cleaning which is covered biannually.


10 posted on 09/09/2013 9:40:45 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Java4Jay

They’re asking for the SSN in case they need to send a bill to collections. They probably also asked for an employer and other information that will help them collect a debt.
I always put 123-45-6789.


11 posted on 09/09/2013 9:42:55 AM PDT by ModernDayCato
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To: Java4Jay

There must be a claim form....probably even on line...see what it says.


12 posted on 09/09/2013 9:43:41 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Java4Jay

I think it this is needed for “proof for services” or some such thing. It’s to prevent other people for stealing your health insurance coverage.

Also, not unusual if there is another person in the area with the same name as you to have to provide SS# and Birth date.


13 posted on 09/09/2013 9:45:24 AM PDT by madison10 (I miss America.)
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To: Technocrat

I know my Medicare No. is my SS#.


14 posted on 09/09/2013 9:45:30 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Java4Jay

You insurance policy uses SS# as IDs, since it’s your policy they need your number.
It is not uncommon.


15 posted on 09/09/2013 9:45:52 AM PDT by svcw (Stand or die)
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To: Java4Jay

Nope.


16 posted on 09/09/2013 9:47:22 AM PDT by I got the rope
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To: Java4Jay

Just tell her to give them a bogus number.

Same thing I do when a dept store wants my address and phone number. I don’t argue, I just make something up.


17 posted on 09/09/2013 9:48:05 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: Java4Jay

only give them your last four digits. that should be enough.


18 posted on 09/09/2013 9:48:21 AM PDT by I got the rope
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To: ModernDayCato

You are correct, her registration form ask who is responsible for your account charges? I’m NOT responsible, its between my daughter, doctor and insurance company.


19 posted on 09/09/2013 9:56:46 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Java4Jay
Do what I do at my kids schools when they demand ssn's.

Demand theirs be sent home on all documents that ask for mine or my child's. As is good for me, is good for thee.

20 posted on 09/09/2013 9:59:51 AM PDT by blackdog (There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
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To: Java4Jay

I have bcbs too and had the same issue with a biology practice. No they do not need a ss# to file a claim.


21 posted on 09/09/2013 10:01:58 AM PDT by lovesdogs
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To: Java4Jay

Ask the person asking you for their SS number first.


22 posted on 09/09/2013 10:02:47 AM PDT by killermosquito (Buffalo, Detroit (and eventually France) is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: Java4Jay
Under ObamaCare, any medical event, is something of a Tax Event of Interest to the IRS.

The filling out of any medical form, is akin to filling out an IRS form.

Anything that the IRS might ask you, ObamaCare may ask you.

You may be charged with a crime defined in federal statutes or by some federal agency's bureaucrats (whether or not defined in their regulations), for not answering ObamaCare questions and filling out forms truthfully.

"Truth" is effectively defined as what they, the IRS/ObamaCare have on file about you, which is now so much more, "thanks" to the Internet *and your habits online in addition to records of all your transaction activities.*

To wit: your dentist, your doctor, your care giver (who is an employee of a care giving organization) ... are all tantamount to being almost-IRS-agents.

The paperwork problem for you, is so enormous, that you may be directed to an ObamaCare "navigator," who is a government agent.

There is a lot of angst about the government's hiring of people to be "navigator" job applicants - re the government's claim that it does not have the time for background checks of "navigator" job applicants in addition to other issues.

States raise privacy concerns over health law navigators.

Also, Justice Department asks court to fix "disparate" civil service exams for minority applicants.

Good luck with that, getting a decent government agent ... and being able to keep that person as your agent?

My guess is, that the Congress - lawyers - know that the bureaucracy of ObamaCare, will be ObamaCare's own un-doing; that ObamaCare will fail by its own weight, helped by THE GENERAL UN-HAPPINESS of the public.

Drafts of ObamaCare forms

Download [61 page] PDF of "draft [of] HHS application forms to buy health insurance"

Download [21 page] PDF of "the application itself"

My guess continues ... that the Congress will *then* have the will to end ObamaCare, which lack of fortitude *now* inhabits their guts.

23 posted on 09/09/2013 10:08:45 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: lovesdogs

Agreed, no matter how much they insist, BCBS can pay the claim just fine. I write “prefer not to give”

In NC anyway, its against state law to require it tho they can ask all they want.


24 posted on 09/09/2013 10:16:01 AM PDT by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: Java4Jay
The 21 page PDF of "the application itself" is also a draft.
25 posted on 09/09/2013 10:16:53 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: First_Salute

I already have coverage, Obama said I could keep it


26 posted on 09/09/2013 10:21:25 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Java4Jay

As a manager of a dental office, I can state that many dental benefit policies want to require that primary policy SSN# be provided when the dependent to assure coverage is appropriate. This prevents identity theft coverage. I.e., benefits being provided to a dependent who is not a dependent of the primary insured. The benefit provider is SUPPOSED to have generated a new, non-SSN number for this purpose as SSNs are not supposed to be used for ID purposes but many have not done it.

Also, the dentist may be requiring the parent’s SSN (not really allowed) so he may more easily collect a non-paid bill, assuming the parent might be a “responsible party,” which Obama has thrown into a legal limbo with his requirement for policies to cover legal adults until age twenty-six, an absurdity, and using the insurance company as an excuse to get it. You do have the legal right to refuse to provide the SSN for any purpose except a government one.

The dentist does not have to be paid directly by the benefit provider. Your daughter can pay the bill, and you can submit it for reimbursement.


27 posted on 09/09/2013 10:22:55 AM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

I believe the House nullified the SSN protections a few years ago. Medical offices require them so they can turn you over to collections if you fail to pay up...


28 posted on 09/09/2013 10:28:28 AM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: Adder

UPDATE: Dentist tried to submit claim electronically but it won’t let them without my numbers. Daughter has seen this dentist before with no issues.


29 posted on 09/09/2013 10:30:39 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Swordmaker

My daughter is not my dependent, she is 25.


30 posted on 09/09/2013 10:31:38 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Java4Jay
her dentist needs my SS# to file a claim

Unless you have another identification # on your dental policy, yes, he needs it.........

31 posted on 09/09/2013 10:33:59 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco

Daughter has her own card with her name and policy numbers on it


32 posted on 09/09/2013 10:36:17 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Seems like where this is going is the IRS will tax me for services rendered


33 posted on 09/09/2013 10:37:39 AM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Java4Jay
Daughter has her own card with her name and policy numbers on it

Then I can't see any reason for the dentist to require YOUR SS#.........I'd personally talk to him about it.

34 posted on 09/09/2013 10:40:02 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Hot Tabasco

there is no reason to give a ss#.

IOW just say no.


35 posted on 09/09/2013 10:46:52 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Swordmaker

Normally required and legal are 2 different things.

Right on my SS card it states for SS benefits only and not to be used for ID.

By the way dental patients, check your bills carefully. In less that a year I have caught 4 different dentists/billing services charging more than the agreed upon payment for various carriers.

So far I have receive $277 back from one dental scam artist and I have another $250 in the works with the remaining 2 still under investigation.

Here is the scam. The dentist agrees CONTRACTUALLY with your Ins carrier to accept let say $1200 for a procedure.

The dentist will bill the carrier for $1450 (or more) and of course the Ins company will only pay $1200 and they will try to bill you for the rest. If the dentist agreed to accept the Ins. company’s payment as payment in full (that is my Ins. company agreement) then you should owe nothing.

WATCH your bills and I can only assume doctors will do the same.

One dentist tried to say the $207 was a lab charge which never showed up on the bill but that amount was exactly the difference between their original billing and what the Ins company paid. I expect that check in a week.


36 posted on 09/09/2013 11:05:09 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam! 969)
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To: VerySadAmerican
Could insurance coverage now be taxable?
If that's true, then the insurance company should be asking, not the dentist.
37 posted on 09/09/2013 11:09:12 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Java4Jay

I just went through this with my doctor’s office. They never asked for it before and all of a sudden they “had to have it”. I did some research on the SS website. No, you do not have to give this number out. Unless you are under a government plan, like Medicare or Medicaid.

I also called my insurance company and they told me that they do NOT need my SS# to pay a claim. I am identified by another number, which is on my insurance card and not my SS#.

So I just politely said no and had no problems.

They would LIKE to have it for bill paying reasons. It makes it easier to find you if you don’t pay your bill. However just because some people are deadbeats is no reason for you to have to expose yourself to fraud. There are a couple of studies out there if you do the research that say a great portion of ID theft is from medical and dental offices.

The law does not require you to provide this to them but they hope that most people will just fill it in.

They could decide that they do not want to provide service to your daughter. Then you can either offer to pay cash or go to another dentist.


38 posted on 09/09/2013 11:34:47 AM PDT by conservativegranny
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To: conservativegranny

“There are a couple of studies out there if you do the research that say a great portion of ID theft is from medical and dental offices.”

I am unaware of these studies . Can you give me a URL? Thanks!


39 posted on 09/09/2013 11:54:04 AM PDT by Cyman
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To: Java4Jay

hmmm

Others have suggested false numbers.

Or you can simply refuse and tell them why.


40 posted on 09/09/2013 12:01:46 PM PDT by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: longtermmemmory
there is no reason to give a ss#.

IOW just say no.

Thanks for clarifying that, I'm sure lots of folks would have been confused by my statement............

41 posted on 09/09/2013 2:07:09 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: Cyman

Here are some to get your started. Clark Howard did a segment on the topic and the worst places to give out your SS#. Medical offices were on the list.

http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clark-howard/consumer-issues-id-theft/10-worst-places-give-your-social-security-number/nFh2/

This article will lead you to some information on government statistics and private research into the crime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/13/health/13patient.html?_r=0

http://www.ponemon.org/library/third-annual-survey-on-medical-identity-theft-ponemon-institute

http://www.nationwide.com/about-us/061312-few-aware-of-medical-id-theft.jsp

You can find more using a search engine. The law that I mentioned that exempts doctors, clinics, dentists is called the Red Flag Law or Red Flag Rule. The law does not consider these entities a “business”.

I did all of this research a couple of months ago and went armed with printouts to the doctor’s office and never had to use them. It was suggested that instead of dealing with the receptionist you ask to speak with the office manager or the physician themselves. Ask them why they want the information and what they intend to do with it and how they plan to protect your information.

I was told a number of bogus reasons by the receptionist. One told me she couldn’t enter an appointment without my SS# yet I made an appt. two weeks before that. I asked her what changed and she said they had a new computer system. The same one they had when I made my last appt. Then I was told by another receptionist that the insurance company needed the number to pay my claim. I called the insurance company and they said they did not. They already have my SS#. and do not print it on the card to protect clients from ID theft.

Soooo... The next story I was told is that because the injury I had was the result of a home accident they had to have it to fill in the form on the computer.

I just said “No” and suddenly they were able to leave that line blank.

A couple of weeks after I went to a place that does discount MRI’s and noticed that the form had a line for my SS# right at the top. I left it blank. No problem.


42 posted on 09/09/2013 2:15:38 PM PDT by conservativegranny
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To: Java4Jay
My daughter is not my dependent, she is 25.

I know that, and YOU know that, but OBAMA, doesn't seem to know that!

43 posted on 09/09/2013 4:08:04 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Java4Jay
Daughter has her own card with her name and policy numbers on it

Hmmmm... strange. I suspect that dentist wants it for his own purposes or the software is antique.

44 posted on 09/09/2013 4:09:35 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Cyman
“There are a couple of studies out there if you do the research that say a great portion of ID theft is from medical and dental offices.”

I am unaware of these studies . Can you give me a URL? Thanks!

I am too... HIIPA laws are very explicit about patient privacy and are even more onerous than other places where data may be stolen. I think someone is making things up. I know that my clients' offices and my office are VERY careful of such data.

45 posted on 09/09/2013 4:13:16 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: conservativegranny

Please note that Medical Identity theft is really not that common. . . the 2009 cited 250,000 cases out of over 250,000,000 insured in this country. But the individual crooks really DON’T GET THE stolen IDs from medical offices... they mostly get them from the same common sources that regular ID thefts come from! They get individual Medical ID cards come from stolen wallets, stolen IDs, and Spoofing IDs from people. They do not go into medical offices to steal IDs.

One of the primary ways wholesale Medical Insurance records have been stolen in the past was the theft of Insurance Company laptop computers that were not encrypted. There were several stolen in the past that had Patient names, SSNs, and Subscriber IDs on them, along with employer data and addresses.... thousands. Insurance company employees have left them in cabs, on subways, or had them snatched from their shoulders in their carrying cases. The company servers have been hacked... that is how ID data is stolen and then sold to individuals looking to get free medical care. Of course, it really isn’t necessary when many could just go to an emergency room and get it anyway.


46 posted on 09/09/2013 4:26:41 PM PDT by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Swordmaker

Cases are on the rise. I am very glad that I wasn’t one of those 250,000. People who work at medical offices are no more moral than people that do not. I do not trust the receptionist at the dentist office any more than I would trust a clerk at a convenience store. I don’t know them.

I think the main point not to be missed is that just because someone asks for your SS# does not mean that you should provide it. Now more than ever you need to limit access to that number as much as you are legally allowed to do. A medical clinic told me that anyone who worked at the clinic has access to my records. And I have found that to be true and had a big argument about that with an office manager a few years ago about it. Her answer was that it was “for my own good” and she couldn’t understand why I would object to anyone working at that clinic would have access to my information.

The bottom line is that at this time there is no good reason, unless you are using a government program to pay for medical care for these clinics to have this information and you are not legally required to give it to them. In that case why would you?


47 posted on 09/09/2013 5:48:40 PM PDT by conservativegranny
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To: Java4Jay

I had to provide mine in order to get the work financed by CareCredit (GE), which makes sense as for any kind of loan. P.S. I always pay these off before the 0% promotional period ends.


48 posted on 09/09/2013 5:58:29 PM PDT by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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