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To: Boogieman
Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 both clearly describe a congregation of angels meeting directly with God, with Satan among them. The term used to describe them is “bene Elohim”, the sons of God, just as it is used in Genesis, and later in Job. The only contradiction with Hebrews is an apparent one.

According to Hebrews 1:4 God has never called any angel his son. That title is reserved for "heirs of salvation" (Hebrews 1:14, John 1:12). I know that some want to make a collective/singular distinction, but it is artificial. If God calls a group his sons, then this applies individually as well. And he never called any angel his son, nor any group of angels his sons.

I don't use the dictionary to interpret scripture. Nor do I have to resort to Hebrew or Greek. The Bible itself gives the proper technique as I mentioned earlier: 1 Corinthians 2:9ff:

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth...Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual with spiritual. (1 Corinthians 2:9-13)

This interpretation ignores the context of the verse, both the earlier usages of of “sons of God” in Job 1 and Job 2, and also the immediately preceding verses, which place the time before the creation of man.

At first I thought the timeframe was creation as well. But there is time shift introduced in verse 6:

(6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; (7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:6,7)

A search of the Bible reveals who this corner stone is:

Job 38:6* Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Isaiah 28:16* Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Ephesians 2:20* And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
1 Peter 2:6* Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Jesus Christ is the corner stone. And Jesus himself in John 8 told an unbelieving crowd:

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it, and was glad." Then the Jews said unto him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:26-58)

Jesus is speaking in the past tense, yet the laying of the corner stone is his incarnation, death, burial and resurrection (1 Peter 2:6 quoting Isaiah 28:16). And Abraham "saw" it and "rejoiced". The Bible also says that Jesus Christ is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." (Revelation 13:8) God in heaven is in a timeless domain. We on the other hand are constrained by time. The sons of God in heaven (Abraham et al.) can look upon the laying of the corner stone and rejoice. When Jesus says this has not yet completed his work. Yet, the Bible says he was slain from the foundation of the world. Have fun figuring this out. But we are assured by Jesus himself that Abraham, a son of God, rejoiced to see the laying of this corner stone.

We don't have to resort to creative twistings of the Hebrew "bene Elohim". We can see what it means in the many and consistent contexts and usages throughout the Bible, old and new testament. It means "sons of God", that is, "heirs of salvation", in any language. And that excludes the angels who are not heirs of salvation, a position in Christ reserved to all who believe on his name. (John 1:12)

For as many as received him to these he gave the power to become sons of God, even, to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13)
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. (1 John 5:1)
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:1,2

The angels are NOT sons of God, believers are, because they are in Christ.

124 posted on 12/09/2013 6:26:27 AM PST by nonsporting
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To: nonsporting

“I know that some want to make a collective/singular distinction, but it is artificial. If God calls a group his sons, then this applies individually as well.”

It’s not a collective/singular distinction, it’s a distinction in usage. “Bene Elohim” has been interpreted to mean angels for thousands of years, by the Hebrews, the early Christians, and most Biblical translators. It’s the traditional interpretation, and nothing radical at all to suggest that is the correct reading. As you don’t want to give credence to dictionaries or definitions of words when interpreting the Bible, I don’t think there is any use discussing the matter any more with you, since we can’t have a rational discourse in that case.


127 posted on 12/09/2013 7:32:34 AM PST by Boogieman
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