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To: agere_contra

Germany were just the first movers in a war that had all but started.

Russia was in E. Prussia within 2 weeks of Germany entering Belgium. A simple rain delay in the west would have made them the “agressors” if you think about it.

I personally see neither side as innocent. they all worked for war and postured to let the other guy take the fall so their flimsy aims didn’t become the reason it all went to heck.


35 posted on 01/08/2014 7:12:52 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: VanDeKoik
Germany were just the first movers in a war that had all but started.

Germany (and Austro-Hungary) started a war that wouldn't otherwise have started.

This isn't some theory of continental drift. There were clear aggressors in World War One, just as clear and as stark as the aggressors in World War Two.

46 posted on 01/08/2014 7:35:20 AM PST by agere_contra (I once saw a movie where only the police and military had guns. It was called 'Schindler's List'.)
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To: VanDeKoik

Russia was in E. Prussia AFTER Germany declared war on Russia. You can’t really call a nation an agressor if another nation declares war on them and they invade the nation that made the initial declaration, can you?


49 posted on 01/08/2014 7:40:14 AM PST by stremba
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To: VanDeKoik

June 28, 1914: Serbian irredentists assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

June 28-29: Anti-Serb pogrom in Sarajevo

July 23: Austria-Hungary, following their own secret inquiry, sends an ultimatum to Serbia, containing several very severe demands. In particular, they gave only forty-eight hours to comply. Whilst both Great Britain and Russia sympathised with many of the demands, both agreed the timescale was far too short. Both nevertheless advised Serbia to comply.

July 24: Germany officially declares support for Austria’s position.

July 24: Sir Edward Grey, speaking for the British government, asks that Germany, France, Italy and Great Britain, “who had no direct interests in Serbia, should act together for the sake of peace simultaneously.”

July 25: The Serbian government replies to Austria, and agrees to most of the demands. However, certain demands brought into question her survival as an independent nation. On these points they asked that the Hague Tribunal arbitrate.

July 25: Russia enters a period preparatory to war and mobilization begins on all frontiers. Government decides on a partial mobilization in principle to begin on July 29.

July 25: Serbia mobilizes its army; responds to Austro-Hungarian démarche with less than full acceptance; Austria-Hungary breaks diplomatic relations with Serbia.

July 26: Serbia reservists accidentally violate Austro-Hungarian border at Temes-Kubin.

July 26: Russia having agreed to stand aside whilst others conferred, a meeting is organised to take place between ambassadors from Great Britain, Germany, Italy and France to discuss the crisis. Germany declines the invitation.

July 27: Sir Edward Grey meets the German ambassador independently. A telegram to Berlin after the meeting states, “Other issues might be raised that would supersede the dispute between Austria and Serbia ... as long as Germany would work to keep peace I would keep closely in touch.”

July 28: Austria-Hungary, having failed to accept Serbia’s response of the 25th, declares war on Serbia. Mobilisation against Serbia begins.

July 29: Russian general mobilization is ordered, and then changed to partial mobilization.

July 29: Sir Edward Grey appeals to Germany to intervene to maintain peace.

July 29: The British Ambassador in Berlin, Sir Edward Goschen, is informed by the German Chancellor that Germany is contemplating war with France, and furthermore, wishes to send its army through Belgium. He tries to secure Britain’s neutrality in such an action.

July 30: Russian general mobilization is reordered at 5:00 P.M.

July 31: Austrian general mobilization is ordered.

July 31: Germany enters a period preparatory to war.

July 31: Germany sends an ultimatum to Russia, demanding that they halt military preparations within twelve hours.

July 31: Both France and Germany are asked by Britain to declare their support for the ongoing neutrality of Belgium. France agrees to this. Germany does not respond.

July 31: Germany asks France, whether it would stay neutral in case of a war Germany vs. Russia

August 1 (3 A.M.): King George V of Great Britain personally telegraphs Tsar Nicholas II of Russia.

August 1: French general mobilization is ordered.

August 1: German general mobilization is ordered.

August 1: Germany declares war against Russia.

August 1: The Tsar responds to the king’s telegram, stating, “I would gladly have accepted your proposals had not the German ambassador this afternoon presented a note to my Government declaring war.”

August 2: Germany and The Ottoman Empire sign a secret treaty. entrenching the Ottoman-German Alliance

August 3: Germany, after France declines (See Note) its demand to remain neutral, declares war on France. Germany states to Belgium that she would “treat her as an enemy” if she did not allow free passage of German troops across her lands.

August 3: Britain, expecting German naval attack on the northern French coast, states that Britain would give “... all the protection in its powers.”

August 4: Germany implements the Alfred von Schlieffen Plan (modified).

August 4 (midnight): Having failed to receive notice from Germany assuring the neutrality of Belgium, Britain declares war on Germany.

August 6: Austria-Hungary declares war on Russia.

August 23: Japan, honouring the Anglo-Japanese Alliance, declares war on Germany.

August 25: Japan declares war on Austria-Hungary.

Note: French Prime Minister Rene Viviani merely replied to the German ultimatum that, “France will act in accordance with her interests.” Had the French agreed to remain neutral, the German Ambassador was authorized to ask the French to temporarily surrender the Fortresses of Toul and Verdun as a guarantee of neutrality.


51 posted on 01/08/2014 7:44:47 AM PST by kabar
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