Atheists/Materialists Are Closet Moral Objectivists

Uncommon Descent ^ | January 17, 2014 | William J Murray

[Heartlander]

Accepting that it’s OK to gratuitously torturing children would completely shatter any social strucure in place, and early man figured out that the protections a social structure provides is more than enough incentive to curb those behaviors which destroy social structures. Thereby, the good (as it relates to the society) are those things that hold society together, and the wrong would be those things that tear society apart. To wit: murder, adultery, stealing, and bearing false witness against others.

Hmmm… Natural selection is merely death and is necessary according to neo-Darwinism. Male animals kill the babies of another male and then mate with the female. Killer whales toss around baby seals. Evolution does not need morality. Darwin even acknowledged that human morality lets the feeble and feeble minded survive - which would not normally happen.

Read post 21 - as Dawkins states:

In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
- Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life

[circlecity]

"Can I ask what the specific laws that make up universal morality including those which are counter-intuitive or counter-productive?"

Sacrificial love for one.

[circlecity]

I can only say, turn that statement around and see if it does not equally apply to your statement about moral laws being transcendant. Where's your proof?"

Human experience consistently repeated throughout history.

[Fuzz]

I need to be more specific. You argue that there are universal laws that are innate and universal. What are they, specifically?

[Heartlander]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

How would this look without universal laws?

We hold no truths to be self-evident, that all (men) are evolved based on chance, that they are endowed by a mindless chemical process from a mindless universal algorithm with uncertain inalienable illusions that among these are a delusion of life, and the pursuit of happenstance.

www.nccs.net/natural-law-the-ultimate-source-of-constitutional-law.php

[Jayster]

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[narses]

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