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Living Trust And / Or Will
self ^ | February 24, 2014 | knarf

Posted on 02/24/2014 5:54:34 AM PST by knarf

I've come to a time in my life when I should make some decisions about what happens when I'm gone ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education; Health/Medicine; Reference
KEYWORDS: livingtrust; will
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and I've got two thoughts in my head ... Living Trust and a Will

I can find a lot of information on line ABOUT these things, but I can't find anything (Pennsylvania specific) that I can download, fill in and have notarized.

Is this something that we are forced to get a lawyer involved or does anyone know where I can get some blank forms, legal enough that I can fill it in and look at it?

1 posted on 02/24/2014 5:54:34 AM PST by knarf
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To: knarf

One place for info:

http://www.legalzoom.com/


2 posted on 02/24/2014 5:56:14 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: knarf

Try LegalZoom.com


3 posted on 02/24/2014 5:57:36 AM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: morphing libertarian; thackney

Yeahhhh ... I guess I should’a tagged my question with ... free


4 posted on 02/24/2014 5:59:10 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: knarf

Yes. My parents used a lawyer to create their revocable trust and wills. It is highly recommended.

A late friend of mine was an expert in land titles and deeds. She said a lot of problems with land inheritance had to do with incorrectly created trusts.


5 posted on 02/24/2014 6:01:10 AM PST by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE USA OF USA CITIZEN PARENTS)
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To: knarf

I am not an attorney nor do i work in the legal field. I go to an attorney recognized in any aspect of the law industry (that is what it is) just like I don’t do my own dentistry or hair cutting among other things I am not skilled at. So, I would be careful being my own council on estate laws.

That said, if one has an almost zero estate, why not do your own. For those, the forms available on the net from any of the self lawyer sites probably are sufficient.

There is a pretty good section on trusts, wills, and the tax consequences of IRAs in the current issue of Forbes FWIW. A few things recently changed and for those having substantial Roth or regular IRAs being aware of the tax consequences and allowances is critical knowledge.


6 posted on 02/24/2014 6:03:26 AM PST by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: SatinDoll
I should add ... I am;
me and my wife with a house and a couple of acres, no bank account, investments .. nuthin' ... just us living.

The kids are grown, so all I want to do is avoid probate and be sure everything can go seamlessly to my wife.

7 posted on 02/24/2014 6:03:33 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: knarf
Most attorneys do this a a very reasonable cost...like $75 for a standard will.

You might just keep looking on line for info on a living Trust.

Don't forget....gifting some of your money is a good way to distribute it and it costs nothing.

8 posted on 02/24/2014 6:04:24 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: knarf

There’s specific PA law regarding these things.

There are a few law firm/organizations that service low-income seniors for these services.

The state wants low-seniors to fill out the forms so that doctors have what they legally need to stop their efforts when these situations come up.

It’s obviously aimed at saving money for medicare/medicaid.

I found what was needed by using google to search a couple years ago.


9 posted on 02/24/2014 6:04:43 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: knarf

Free Wills here:

http://www.totallegal.com/wills.asp?src=m3online


10 posted on 02/24/2014 6:05:13 AM PST by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.))
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To: knarf

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/what-is-a-living-trust.html


11 posted on 02/24/2014 6:08:30 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: knarf

Free legal advice is like free medical care - you get what you pay for, knarf.

Why don’t you have the property put in BOTH your names? That’s what my mom and dad did.


12 posted on 02/24/2014 6:08:53 AM PST by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE USA OF USA CITIZEN PARENTS)
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To: knarf

If everything is titled jointly everything should go seamlessly to your wife without a trust or will.


13 posted on 02/24/2014 6:11:08 AM PST by sheana
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To: knarf
A simple will should be sufficient and it takes care of the "medical directions" at the same time.

In regard to your children....give them at least $1 in the will.

Gifting is a nice way to give access funds to your children during your lifetime.

14 posted on 02/24/2014 6:12:09 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: knarf

check your local brick and mortar for a paper back from Nolo Press. They have all the paper work for advanced directives, trusts, wills, etc.

IF you have relatively small assists (house, bank account, savings) and it is clear cut what you want to do with them, it shouldn’t be a problem. If you have substantial assists then a lawyer or an estate planner is worth while because of tax considerations


15 posted on 02/24/2014 6:13:49 AM PST by Nifster
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To: knarf

Both; and pay an attny, its worth it, cause if you screw something up it may negate the whole thing


16 posted on 02/24/2014 6:16:01 AM PST by CGASMIA68
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To: knarf

The most important document you will need is a durable power of attorney and a health care surrogate. Avoid the living will if at all possible, and repo it back from your doctor’s file. The health care surrogate can take care of things if needed, whereas the lviing will gives carte blanche to whoever happens to be there when it is determined that you are terminal.The most expensive and aggravating time is not death - it’s incompetence and dying, and having your daughter on the checkbook is not adequate. Get the POA.


17 posted on 02/24/2014 6:17:05 AM PST by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: knarf

Consider spending a couple of bucks on a lawyer and get it done right. Well worth a couple hundred dollars or less. That said:

Pennsylvania will recognize just about anything as a will. A handwritten note or even a video will suffice. Getting it notarized isn’t needed (still OK though) but a witness is a darn good idea. Date the document. Make sure people you love have copies and know where to find them. If your belongings are as few as you say a living trust isn’t going to do much for you, unless you have some out of the ordinary wishes about your land or it is working farmland and you want it to keep it that way after you die. This is not always true with some other states, but you say you live in PA. Beware of people that want to sell you an expensive, fancy trust for more than a thousand dollars. It will most likely be nothing more than an expensive phone directory sized book that won’t do anything more than a simple will would do for you.


18 posted on 02/24/2014 6:17:45 AM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: SatinDoll
It IS in both names ...

We had a death in our church a couple of weeks ago and my neighbor and I were reminiscing, which led to questions about what we had done or were going to do, and the idea of probate came up.

Our conversation just led me to think that I needed paper to guarentee the transfer when I had always thought ... if the bank acct is joint (and it is) and the deed is in both names (and it is), the only thing would be the cars which I think are in my name (easily handled by my friendly neighborhood fellow school board member and notary ... )

19 posted on 02/24/2014 6:19:01 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: knarf

If one dies intestate, with no will, the inheritence laws of the resident state take hold. I don’t know if Pennsylvania has inheritence taxes so no comment on that. This article covers the laws of succession in Pa:

http://www.wolfbaldwin.com/Articles/Dying-Without-a-Will-Intestate-Succession.shtml

It is always better to pass with a will or trust rather than having some leech attorney act for the state to sort out the
estate issues IMO.


20 posted on 02/24/2014 6:20:09 AM PST by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: esquirette
See?

THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout !

People with first hand, simple, one syllabub words.

Thanx, esquirette

21 posted on 02/24/2014 6:21:46 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: knarf

My pleasure. And while I am on the subject, have your funeral at your church without a funeral home, and have the visiting there, too. Costco sells caskets as low as $1300 with overnight delivery, and your family can probably go directly to the cemetery for internment arrangements. There, I just saved your family several thousand dollars. You are welcome.


22 posted on 02/24/2014 6:28:46 AM PST by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: esquirette
Marry me!

I'm way ahead o'ye.

I used to be an in-home cemetery salesman for 11 years and learned a LOT about the death industry.

Somewhere in my papers I have the plans for a knock-down shelving unit I designed (20 .. 30 ... years ago ?) that is glued and screwed to become a casket ... all soft pine and etc.

We in our Baptist church DO have the funeral in our church, all we'd need is formaldehyde and the car ride from the director.

23 posted on 02/24/2014 6:35:53 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: esquirette
THERE ... I just saved YOU about a thou !

/8^)

24 posted on 02/24/2014 6:36:30 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: knarf

Living Will, General Power of Attorney, Medical Power of Attorney, Medical Directive, and Will should all be in place.

If you are a veteran they have several excellent document samples that you just fill in the blanks.

I highly recommend you use a competent attorney as there are specifics in each state that are required. Such as in Pennsylvania, Powers of Attorney are required to have accountability clauses where the POA signs, acknowledges and accepts their fiduciary responsibility to act on behalf of the individual, not co-mingle funds and keep complete accountability. I like it when the document is prepared, with a backup person and held by a trusted friend and your attorney with the person who will fill the role not knowing they will be in that position. The reason is that I have seen family dynamics change drastically and create problems. If they know who you have selected it is harder to change.

Never, ever wait until your ability to think clearly is hindered to draw up the documents. Do it now and make sure you elaborate details of your wishes. I’ve seen too many people accept their family real estate and investments with a promise to care for them, only to put them in a nursing home to get rid of them after they have everything.

Pull your documents out every year on your birthday and re-read them. One other thing.... Don’t name an attorney as executor!!


25 posted on 02/24/2014 6:36:32 AM PST by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired

Thanx ... I AM a vet ... never thought of that


26 posted on 02/24/2014 6:38:52 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: Nifster

Large assets....the tax thing is probably nothing....but medical bills can take it all.


27 posted on 02/24/2014 6:40:52 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: knarf

I’ve cleaned up many attorney’s messes in this area. Some are really incompetent. Not only would I NOT do it myself, but I would get a second legal opinion on it before you sign the documents. It’s worth it.

I’m handling a mess right now where a farm is still in a person’s name and they are 95 yrs old and entering a nursing home. A little bit of planning would have saved a lot of headaches and provided better care for the person.

Be careful if you use trusts as there are many types and provisions possible. It is always better to have your cake and eat it too.... maintain control as long as you can while at the same time protecting against loss of assets.


28 posted on 02/24/2014 6:42:36 AM PST by tired&retired
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For later.


29 posted on 02/24/2014 7:00:00 AM PST by lysie
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To: knarf

You ARE way ahead of me! ;-) Thanks for the tip. Can you tell I really despise the death industry? If I had charged my estates like some of the funeral bills I have seen, I would have been disbarred years ago........


30 posted on 02/24/2014 7:17:39 AM PST by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: knarf

GO trust funds, they are air tight, stops your heir’s from lawsuits, gold diggers, and avoid’s Probate. And they void older wills. Can’t tell you about if you can do it yourself, we had a Estate Lawyer our Tax adviser said was one of the best in the area. Our Estate trust is tied up tight as a drum. Along with temp power of attorney for medical decisions, DNR, etc.

We just did a Estate Trust, First Marital then secondary. We are a blended family of seniors, so we each had adult kids, and grands, he has great grands. As he is 8 yrs older than I and the ladies in my family have all out lived their husbands. It all comes to me first.

They can be the Trustee of their own Trust. The trust are not active until you pass. I totally left my eldest spendthrift out, and gave his portion to his son for college or trade school, but it is limited to books and tuition. Want more get a job. Rest at 30, when he might have a little more brains. And his parents are NOT his Trustees.


31 posted on 02/24/2014 7:19:38 AM PST by GailA (IF you fail to keep your promises to the Military, you won't keep them to Citizens!)
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To: knarf

POD could be the route to go then. If she is on the title it goes to her any way. Wills usually have to go to probate.

When my late husband died in ‘04 I had to go through probate just to get his last pay check. The rest just went seamlessly to me as every thing was joint accounts. But you should have a POD for your property in case something should happen to her. You can make it divisible by as many kids as you have that way. Still avoids probate.


32 posted on 02/24/2014 7:26:53 AM PST by GailA (IF you fail to keep your promises to the Military, you won't keep them to Citizens!)
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To: Sacajaweau

death taxes are confiscatory by nature and in size.

Proper planning and insurance avoids the medical bills that take it all


33 posted on 02/24/2014 7:29:04 AM PST by Nifster
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To: knarf

Property in both your names is good.

Your situation doesn’t seem to be a problem as long as what you own isn’t tremendously valuable - as in millions of dollars valuable - you are probably OK.


34 posted on 02/24/2014 7:58:24 AM PST by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE USA OF USA CITIZEN PARENTS)
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To: knarf

anything held in both of your names will go to the survivor. When my husband passed, both of our names were on everything except a small account at the credit union. That account did pass to me after talking with the credit union cause the law in Michigan at the time was probate was not needed for any moneys under 5000 dollars, so I did not need to probate anything. It was quite a large (for me) amount.


35 posted on 02/24/2014 8:01:07 AM PST by goat granny (.)
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To: knarf

anything held in both of your names will go to the survivor. When my husband passed, both of our names were on everything except a small account at the credit union. That account did pass to me after talking with the credit union cause the law in Michigan at the time was probate was not needed for any moneys under 5000 dollars, so I did not need to probate anything. It was quite a large (for me) amount.


36 posted on 02/24/2014 8:01:27 AM PST by goat granny (.)
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To: t1b8zs; knarf

Be sure any attorney you may go to has a specialty in wills, trusts, and power of attorney. You may want a P O A for medical problems. If you become ill and no one is designated as POA for medical decisions, you can get screwed. My POA for medical decisions spells specifically what is to be done if I become unable to make my own decisions and one son and one daughter are named to make that decision according to my written decision...including that I am not to be put on machines or IV medication that is used JUST to keep the body alive...


37 posted on 02/24/2014 8:09:14 AM PST by goat granny (.)
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To: Nifster

Check....did it about 5 years ago.


38 posted on 02/24/2014 8:11:11 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: SatinDoll
I'm seeing a lot of homes being deeded children with a life use clause.

If a remember, it was done so any medical liens wouldn't apply since children are not responsible for their parents debt. BUT...I believe there is a look back under certain circumstances.

39 posted on 02/24/2014 8:14:29 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

Most people stick the taxpayers with their debts nowdays by selling everything and hiding assests to claim poverty and go on Medicaid. It’s the ‘new normal’.


40 posted on 02/24/2014 8:37:06 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad and lived with his parents .)
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To: knarf

A revocable living trust is the way to go. We finished ours using a free family financial planning ministry thru our church.

You can do it yourself if you’re willing to do the legwork.


41 posted on 02/24/2014 8:59:42 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: knarf

it’s all in the titling, one size does not fit all situations, your situation will be different that anyone elses

yes, screwed up trusts and trusts that are never funded cause a lot of issues

the trust thing was in my opinion a fad, it was helpful in certain cases but it became a type of keeping up with the Joneses thing

all this being said, you should pay an attorney for an opinion

make a list of everything you own

it’s not that hard, it’s not that scary seeing a will and estate lawyer. Most of them are boring and conservative which is what you want. And they could save your loved ones a headache when you fall out.


42 posted on 02/24/2014 9:00:59 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: knarf

do yo mean “advance directive” re: what you do and do not want for lifesaving measures? You should be able to find a fill in the blank one on line somewhere.


43 posted on 02/24/2014 9:02:16 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Sacajaweau

no, the will will not be looked at until you croak, so medical directions in the will won’t be noticed until too late


44 posted on 02/24/2014 9:04:36 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: esquirette

the thing is, as you must know, these things vary from state to state


45 posted on 02/24/2014 9:05:38 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk
It is part of a will. Mine is about 50 feet away. And all the directions are there. The power goes to my daughter.

It's not a big secret until you die. Each of my have a copy. My daughter has the original. My attorney has a second original.

46 posted on 02/24/2014 9:12:14 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

Have it your way, good luck


47 posted on 02/24/2014 9:13:12 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: knarf

If you can’t afford legalzoom you ought naught worry about disposition of assets.


48 posted on 02/24/2014 9:21:23 AM PST by newbie 10-21-00
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To: yldstrk; All
I've made some phone calls since I started this whole thing and the bottom line is;

In Pa., it is sufficient for a seamless transition if both names are documented .. i.e. ..

The deed, bank account(s), cars.

I (we) have a very simple life and very little baggage

No investments and etcetera's.

Even the gas well royalties are in both of our names

49 posted on 02/24/2014 9:24:43 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: newbie 10-21-00

Not can’t ... just don’t think I NEED to.


50 posted on 02/24/2014 9:25:21 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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