Posted on 03/21/2014 6:38:18 AM PDT by Shaun_MD
hey fellow freepers, I need some advice.
I'm trying to set up a small solar panel system in case the grid goes down. I know I won't be able to power the whole house, but I want to be able to run a 750 watt deep well pump, a couple of 40 watt lights, a ceiling fan or box fan, cb base station and maybe a small freezer/refrigerator. I've got a 12v 100 watt solar panel, a 2000w 12v pure sine wave inverter and a 200 amp hour agm battery. Plus a 30 amp charge controller.
Will this be enough? I'm mainly concerned with making my battery last as long as possible and not kill it with undercharging/overcharging since these suckers are expensive.
I'd like to hear your thoughts and suggestions! Thanks
I once subscribed to Scientific American but became dismayed at the political skew. They’re still capable of writing an interesting and informative article now and again, though. Such as:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-flywheel-design/
Look. Don’t let some of these comments discourage you. You’ve got a good start and should be able to get an idea of where you need to go with a little experimenting.
The pump is the biggest challenge. You have a pretty good chance of being able to draw a bathtub full of water every few days or so with what you’ve got.
Try it. Your inverter should have a “surge” rating, maybe 2500w or so. It’ll carry that for a second or four prior to tripping off, which should be enough time to spin up your pump. Try relieving your pressure tank pressure down to zero to reduce the head pressure the pump sees, start with full batteries, and throw the switch. I bet it’ll work. (Don’t forget, at 750w, you’re talkin’ like 65 amps, size the wire between your batteries and invertor accordingly).
You’ll want more panel. I work with a 200w stationary set-up,20a Morningstar controller, 260ah Trojan batteries, and a 600w sinewave converter. I’m building a tracker right now which will boost panel output by about 30%. I run computers and ham radio.
When I come across a deal on more panels, I’ll get ‘em.
Anyhow, try the pump. Let us know how it goes.
First order of business:
Your well pump: Is it a 240v well pump, and does your inverter have a split-phase output that will accommodate the pump and the balance of your “stuff”
Under normal use, the well pump will be used very infrequently.
Go LED for the lights - that, and the box fan will be your biggest draws per 24 hour cycle.
A small fridge can be very efficient. My big fridge draws an average of 65 watts over a 24hour cycle.
Also, manage your drawdown of the AGM. Keep it above 50% charge as a matter of routine. It will last longer. If you need the full capacity, get another one and tie them together in parallel.
What do you think about those Trojan batteries? I’m trying to decide between Trojans and Surrettes. The Trojans are cheaper.
Brief notes:
If you have good running water and drop put a micro turbine at the top of your wish list. End of world scenario your batteries will die all too soon
12 175 watt 24 volt Solar Panels $150 ea on Craigs list in long Beach
8 T105 6 volt Batteries $120-150 each
1 Xantrex C60 Charge Controller $ 100
1 Magnum MS4024PAE 240/120/volt 4000 watt Inverter $2000-2500
Runs 400 foot deep Well(220) pulls 85 amps DC,
GE 21 Cu Ft side by side refrigerator pulls 4 amps DC,
Desktop Computer and 25 inch Monitor pulls 8 amps,
30’ Fully Loaded Trailer, all we use is lights and water pump, negligible power use,
Microwave pulls 90 amps but it is only run for a couple minutes,
Coffee maker uses about 50 amps DC when the element turns on, it cycles on and off every few minutes.
numerous 4 ft Shop Lights with 2 each 40 watt florescent bulbs, Negligible, it takes 2 on to use 1 amp DC, fans,laptops,tablets,kindles,cell phone charging.... all negligible, they dont even register on the meter.
Going to hook up Washer and Dryer this weekend. The big power items are best run during mid day,it will use all 45-50 amps the panels put out and maintain batteries. I still need to add at least 8 more batteries, and 8 more panels, and 1 more charge controller, just haven’t had the time. The trick is to have enough reserve battery power to run all night and morning while still having a 75% charge,til panels start producing, and panels should produce enough to fully charge batteries by 12 noon.
Still have not done any additions to this setup, but I am going to next month. I do have a Washer and Dryer hooked up now, washer is minimal about 10 amps DC but it goes to 30 on occasion when it spins. Dryer pulls 45 amps DC and is converted to propane. These are New Front Loaders from Costco, Whirlpool Duet.
Thanks guys for the great comments and ideas! I will let you all know how it goes. I’m going to have to put this together slowly, one piece at a time lol
Good topic and discussion.
my pump is a craftsman .75k 1 hp multijet. 115/220v
No. It actually sounds like Neal Stephenson giant millennial clocks in “Anathem”
Most folks use Trojans, they’re readily available. I’m not familiar with Surrettes.
Pumping water from a deep well is a huge power drain. It would be better to store the water, rather than the ability to pump it.
A 300 gallon tank isn’t that expensive, if you have room for it. If you place it higher than your highest faucet, you’ll have toilets and and wash water readily available for a while (lack of pressure will require treatment). Obviously, you would also need cutoff valves in your system to keep the water from flowing down into the well. A small gas generator cranked up every few days would then allow you to fill your tank in about 90 minutes.
Thanks thats good to know. The Surrettes are made in Canada and very expensive but supposed to be excellent. I think I’m going scrimp a little on the battery bank and go with Trojans.
You can never have enough electrical power. Figure out what you need today and build you system with at least twice that capacity.
I have a generator but I’m concerned about being able to get fuel in a crisis scenario
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gasoline powered is only good until the stored gasoline runs out.
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anything as in additive(s) for the fuel to prevent deterioration
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I lost power during Hurricane Ike for 5 days. I have a 5500 Watt gasoline generator. I have six 5~6 gallon cans. When hurricane season starts, I keep two full at all times, using marine grade fuel treatment. I test my generator, and I make sure I have a couple cans of starting fluid.
If a hurricane nears our side of the gulf, I fill up all six. If danger passes without use, I use those cans to fill up my truck, setting no longer than 3 months.
During Ike, our street stayed out of power for 5 days. I only had 3 cans then. The power outage was not wide spread after a day or two. I could fill up a can each time it was empty within a half hour drive. By the fifth day, I was driving an hour one way, just to find a station that had power and gas in their tanks.
In the Houston, Texas area, that is pretty much the limit of reason for long term, wide spread outages. Destruction significantly worse than that and I suspect power for my fans and lights will not be my major problem.
Someday, I will add a dual or tri-fuel unit, gasoline & propane, maybe natural gas as well. I keep several cans of propane for the grill at the same time for the same reason.
I would not depend on the solar battery system of this small size to run my pump for water. I am still stuck in the subburbs on city water. We keep several cases of drinking water all hurricane season, along with several cases of other drinks. If a hurricane nears, I fill up the 65 gallon portable tank I use for remote property.
Not perfect, not as much as I want. But time and money requires compromises. After a week, we are not likely to be staying in the tight quarters suburb if it comes to that.
I have a bunch of solar lights in a cluster outside. Last time our power went out I went out and got them for light! Voila!!!
Some are experimenting with using wind and solar to drive a system that separates oxygen from hydrogen in regular old tap water. Some power is used to run a compressor that takes the gasses and compresses them in bottles and tanks.
There is a bank of batteries used to run compressors and a motor that turns the array as the earth changes its position relative to the sun.
The tanks are cheaper and easier to store, ultimately, than batteries. You can also sell the gas if you have excess. You can by electrical generators that will run on the hydrogen or the oxygen.
Storing kinetic energy as chemical energy is ultimately the best way to buffer the inconsistencies involved with electrical power generation from wind or solar (tidal too).
Tank arrays can be built, and a computer can be set up to monitor how many empty bottles remain in each array in your rack system.
When you get to 50 or 75%, you unload the full arrays and store them, or sell them. You load more empty arrays.
Arrays full? Battery topped? Good! You can start your flare and let the oxygen and hydrogen burn off as it is produced. You get flame and water vapor. Put it in the middle of an orchard and you might be able to use it to keep your fruit from freezing in the fall.
Well water and a tank level system is used to make sure you have enough water in your tank.
I just laugh at all the watermelons (green on the outside, red on the inside) that drive electric cars, carry iphones, and use ipads. All of them have batteries that will end up being the environmental nightmare of the middle of the century. Sealed battery cases are my favorite. Thanks Apple!
The downside to this, you need water to produce the power. Water is the weak point in all power generation. You gotta have it. With as ‘advanced’ as we’ve become, we still use the ‘tea kettle’ system to make electrical power. Heat the water, blow the steam past a wheel with paddles, and make the sparks.
Primitive. Competes with food production, where you absolutely have to have the water to grow the food.
Tidal generated electrical power is the only form of power not requiring fresh water to produce. That and the ICE.
STA-BIL 22240 Marine Fuel Stabilizer - 32 oz.
http://www.amazon.com/STA-BIL-22240-Marine-Fuel-Stabilizer/dp/B001CAW2DK
Full line of treatments
http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx
The above is good advice. I have also fantasized about building a dynamometer type device that I could put the back wheels of an automobile on for some temp power (re-charge, run on low sun or low wind days). The logic goes that I would want to keep fuel for the truck and/or generator anyway. If I had a contraption that would allow me to park a vehicle with the back wheels on a bearing or suspended with a belt attached, leave it in drive and have the wheels turn an electric generator, it would actually be relatively efficient and potentially produce way more power than you would likely need. Storing that power could get expensive.
This is only a hair-brained idea based on how efficient automobile motors have become when considering the HP/torque they put out.
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