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Organic food: Pricey, not particularly healthy, won't save you from cancer
The Register ^ | 4/4/2014 | Dr Pan Pantziarka

Posted on 04/05/2014 3:41:07 AM PDT by markomalley

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To: Little Bill

Ditto on the salt pork and mashed potatoes.


141 posted on 04/05/2014 5:58:52 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: Mase
I once believed as you do, but about five years ago, a friend suggested that I look at the medical literature. A few weeks later, with some free time at a university library, I went to the medical treatises and the medical journal databases and read extensively on the subject. Contrary to my initial opinion, after followup reading, I gradually became convinced that there was good cause for avoiding BPA and other POPs.

About once a year, I take another look in detail at the issue. Nothing that I have seen so far has allayed my concerns. Am I correct? Or, more to the point, are the doctors and scientists who have raised the alarm well-founded in their concerns? My impression is that the evidence against BPA and other POPs is accumulating, much as the evidence did against cigarettes, lead in gasoline, and against other chemical pollutants.

For me at least, the balance has tipped in favor of caution even at the price of minor inconveniences. You may conclude otherwise, but take a look at the medical evidence. Simply reading the medical journal abstracts in the Pubmed database should be enough to persuade you that, at the very least, the issue is open to debate.

142 posted on 04/05/2014 8:52:38 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
Instead of looking through abstracts in PubMed, you should look at the molecular diagrams of the typical structures of estrogen and BPA. As I said before, the structures of these two compounds look nothing alike, no matter how you view them.

The same abstracts that cry alarm over alleged estrogen dependent effects want you to believe that many other POP's are also very dangerous in minuscule amounts. These analyses are promoted as scientific, but they are really designed to sell books, promote an agenda, or make grant money flow.

What was that quote again about keeping the public alarmed and clamoring to be led to safety?

143 posted on 04/05/2014 9:05:39 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Eating fat does not make you fat, eating sugar and starch does.

So if I consume 3,000 calories a day entirely from fat, and only expend 1,500 calories a day via metabolic processes and physical activity, I won't gain weight? And, if I eat 1,500 calories a day from only sugar and starch, but burn off 3,000 calories a day, I won't lose weight because all calories consumed came from carbs? Is that what you're claiming?

That's what it sounds like. If so, you need to rethink what you've written.

144 posted on 04/05/2014 9:15:21 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: Mase

It takes quite a while to process the fat into calories, some of it might pass right through.

The sugar is instantly converted to calories...or stored as fat.


145 posted on 04/05/2014 10:31:59 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: Little Bill

Thanks.


146 posted on 04/05/2014 10:48:50 PM PDT by crazycatlady
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To: Mase
I have read not just the abstracts, but dozens of pertinent medical studies and review articles, usually from leading medical journals. The lack of similarity of BPA and estrogen in chemical structure is not conclusive or even persuasive as negative evidence, and there are multiple strands of medical evidence that incriminate POPs as having adverse effects on human health.

Your suggestion that this evidence is the result of comprehensive, systematic fraud is not tenable. I recommend you go to a medical library for a few hours and read the treatises and journal articles. You need not agree with them, but at least you will have engaged the evidence.

147 posted on 04/05/2014 11:52:59 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
When you consume carbohydrates, what's needed for immediate energy is taken and the rest is converted to glycogen, which is stored in the liver and muscles. If the glycogen reserves are full, it will be converted to depot fat.

People get fat from consuming more energy than they burn. It has nothing to do with any one particular macronutrient. It isn't as complicated as some try to make it. Calories in vs. calories out. That's it.

148 posted on 04/06/2014 9:49:13 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: Rockingham
Keeping current on the pertinent research was a vital part of my job for a long time, and I can assure you that a great deal of research today is done to sell books, generate lecture fees, pursue an agenda, or make the grant money flow, rather than finding the truth. If you're a professor, grant money can make the difference between a struggling and living large. The latter lifestyle motivates good people to do things they shouldn't do, and wouldn't do otherwise. Your tax dollars at work.

Anyone not realizing that research and the peer review process has been seriously corrupted, isn't paying attention.

149 posted on 04/06/2014 10:01:12 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: Mase

Evidence commonly varies in quality, and there are few instances in which even expert publications are utterly devoid of self interest, bias, and error. Of course, these defects apply not just to evidence on the side one dislikes, but also to the side that one prefers. Even if, as Samuel Johnson famously pointed out, no one but a blockhead writes for any reason except money, in the end, there is no substitute for studying the evidence, good and bad, favorable and unfavorable.


150 posted on 04/06/2014 10:26:52 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Mase

Really!

Then why do the low-carb diets work?


151 posted on 04/06/2014 10:37:35 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: 9YearLurker
“But yeah, I’d take crops that are correctly fertilized with manure over Roundup-soaked vegetables any day of the week.”

Are you sure you know what Round up is used for. Cause it sure doesn't sound like it.

Once again, bloviating and hysteria triumph over facts. But hey, it's a free country. You go right ahead.

152 posted on 04/06/2014 11:03:34 AM PDT by saleman
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Yeah, really -- unless you've repealed the first law of thermodynamics. Your suggestions are in total denial of the thermodynamic perspective. I think I'll stick with established science.

People lose weight because they burn more calories than they consume. It has always been this way. I suspect that the low carb diet is, for the most part, a low calorie diet.

Michael Phelps would devour 12,000 calories a day, mostly from carbs, when he was in training. According to you, he's an obese slob.

153 posted on 04/06/2014 12:00:08 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
One of the things that give Chowder its flavor is the salt pork.

I make Corn Chowder much the same way except I use 3 cans of cream corn, I know how to cream corn but with two feet of snow in my front how am I going to get fresh corn, and then add 2 pounds of frozen corn.

I make it thinner than Clam Chowder but still served with oyster crackers and black pepper as God intended it to be.

154 posted on 04/06/2014 1:05:21 PM PDT by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
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To: Mase
Your suggestions are in total denial of the thermodynamic perspective. I think I'll stick with established science.

Not exactly, the fat doesn't create an instant insulin reaction the second your tongue tastes it... but sugar/starch does. So do artificial sweeteners, because the body thinks it's sugar.

People lose weight because they burn more calories than they consume. It has always been this way. I suspect that the low carb diet is, for the most part, a low calorie diet.

No, it isn't.

But because most readily available food is loaded with flour or sugar, or both, and that's what most people eat. They get up, have some cereal or toast, coffee with cream and sugar, on the way to work, pick up another sugar loaded coffee and a donut or bagel, and that holds them till coffee break where they eat some cinnamon rolls with their next sugar laden coffee.

Then they have pizza and chips for lunch with a large Pepsi. Grab a couple of beers on the way home from work and then have a huge dinner of spaghetti and meatballs, and garlic bread.

Unless they are an athlete, they can't possibly burn all of it off.

On the cave-man, or God diet, you cut out all man made carbohydrate based "foods" and just stick to meat, seafood, butter and vegetables, shunning starchy vegetables and fruits. Nothing out of a box or bag.

You can have all the fat you want....Although I doubt you'd be likely to eat enough fat to equal all the calories I described above.

The "junk food" industry is based on products that are cheap to make, easy to consume, and quick to digest, which leave you hungry sooner, also when you add the sugar/carb crash to the equation, people are literally addicted to their eating habits.

155 posted on 04/06/2014 2:05:04 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER; Mase

Isocaloric != isometabolic. Your metabolism != laboratory calorimeter.

Technically, laboratory calorimeters can determine the caloric content of wood fiber. In your body that’s pretty close to zero. Unless you’re a flagellate in the intestine of a termite. Not so in a lab experiment, by the strict definition calorie.


156 posted on 04/06/2014 2:09:30 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
People lose weight because they burn more calories than they consume. It has always been this way. I suspect that the low carb diet is, for the most part, a low calorie diet.

No, it isn't.

When I tried Atkins, it was a low calorie diet.

I ate protein and fat, and didn't feel hungry. No snacking all day.

157 posted on 04/07/2014 7:05:23 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Well...didn’t the protein and fat contain calories?

Were you limited in how much fat to eat?


158 posted on 04/07/2014 7:43:16 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Well...didn’t the protein and fat contain calories?

Why yes they did. 4 calories/gram of protein, 9 calories/gram of fat.

Were you limited in how much fat to eat?

No. But I never felt hungry, so I ate less.

159 posted on 04/07/2014 1:56:48 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Not exactly, the fat doesn't create an instant insulin reaction...

So what? What does this have to do with the first law of thermodynamics?

...but sugar/starch does

Well of course it does. Insulin facilitates the metabolization of carbohydrates. Again, so what?

So do artificial sweeteners, because the body thinks it's sugar.

If the artificial sweetener doesn't provide any calories, why would there be an insulin response? Your body knows when it's getting carbs and when it isn't. This is nonsense.

Do you really believe that insulin being released is responsible for people becoming fat? Good grief.

The rest of your post simply describes what I've been trying to tell you. People who eat more calories than they burn are going to gain weight. Overeating is a learned behavior, and there is a lot of it going on these days. Combine the over consumption of calories with a sedentary lifestyle, and you end up with an overweight population. Nothing earth shattering there.

There is no God diet. Cave men didn't live very long for a lot of reasons, and their diet played a role. If you consume more calories from fat than you burn, you will get fat(ter). If you consume more calories from protein than you burn, you will get fat(ter). If you consume more calories from carbohydrates than you burn, you will get fat(ter). Same as it ever was.

160 posted on 04/07/2014 2:00:52 PM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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