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To: PieterCasparzen

The Old Testament is the book of faith & practice for Jews. It prepared the way for the Christ. The New Testament is the manual of faith & practice for Christians. No one is arguing that Christians are to be immoral. Just the opposite. The moral demands on Christians far outweigh those on Jews, as Jesus made clear in the Sermon on the Mount.

The issue is whether Christians are free to pray for our enemies’ destruction. We are not. The old moral code that allowed for such hatred has been superseded. We now pray blessings on our enemies. This is a New Covenant command, no wiggle room. As I said originally, we are encouraged to pray for deliverance from evil. We are not at liberty to pray for other people’s destruction. That era ended with the New Commandment. We now must love as Jesus loved—and He NEVER prayed for the destruction of his enemies. Even on the cross He prayed for their forgiveness, and He is our role model.

1 John 4:8

The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


60 posted on 06/07/2014 6:23:22 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter
The Old Testament is the book of faith & practice for Jews. It prepared the way for the Christ. The New Testament is the manual of faith & practice for Christians.

Contradicted by Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

The moral demands on Christians far outweigh those on Jews,

Basically, yes, that is my point.

We now pray blessings on our enemies. This is a New Covenant command, no wiggle room.

Our personal enemies, yes. Enemies of God who are unrepentent, we pray that God destroys them. If the evil tyrant is not truly an enemy of God, he will repent and mend his ways. God will care for his own and protect them, and they will persevere, even though before their conversion they may commit grave sins.

We now must love as Jesus loved

Yes.

and He NEVER prayed for the destruction of his enemies.

He does not have to, he is their judge:

Luke 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

2 Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"

Shortly before Christ was arrested, he prayed:

John 17

"5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

and a few verses later:

"18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"

Note that he is only praying for believers; he is specifically excluding unbelievers in his request of God the Father.

So while he was indeed praying for sinners, he was only praying for those who would eventually repent and believe in him; those who are fellowship with Christ. Thus Jesus made a distinct point of not praying for unrepentant evil tyrants.

Even on the cross He prayed for their forgiveness,

Luke 23:34 "34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."

Matthew Henry's commentary addresses this well, I believe:

"The petition: Father, forgive them. One would think that he should have prayed, “Father, consume them; the Lord look upon it, and requite it.” The sin they were now guilty of might justly have been made unpardonable, and justly might they have been excepted by name out of the act of indemnity. No, these are particularly prayed for. Now he made intercession for transgressors, as was foretold (Isa. 53:12), and it is to be added to his prayer (John 17:1-26), to complete the specimen he gave of his intercession within the veil: that for saints, this for sinners. Now the sayings of Christ upon the cross as well as his sufferings had a further intention than they seemed to have. This was a mediatorial word, and explicatory of the intent and meaning of his death: “Father, forgive them, not only these, but all that shall repent, and believe the gospel;” and he did not intend that these should be forgiven upon any other terms."

Regarding 1 John 4:8, once again, we need to read more to understand what is being said in full:

1 John 4

"1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

So, while yes, God is love, but we must also remember, for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God...

(1 John 4:3)...every spirit confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist...

Even does Jesus Christ hate ? He hates iniquity.

Hebrews 1

"8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
63 posted on 06/07/2014 10:11:23 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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