Posted on 06/16/2014 6:04:34 PM PDT by riverss
Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
(the reasons) You can not change or claim anything outside of these reasons listed in this Declaration, proof on the paper as to why, a contract that was signed and printed out.
That’s why it’s called a Declaration! Permanent! Can’t back up or out now.
(IT READS)
The people of the State of South Carolina, in > Convention assembled <, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other (States, WHICH under the Constitution of the United slaveholder states of America where it is still legal), she forbore at that time to exercise this right.
Since that time, ...these encroachments have continued to increase, (gone unanswered) and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.
WHY? ((in Convention assembled <, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared))
1. frequent violations (like non stop) of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government
2. Federal Government encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States
3. these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue
These items are at issue and debatable...NOT!!!
Were there frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government? Answer Yes or No
Were there Federal Government encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States? Answer Yes or No
Were there these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue? Answer Yes or No
DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU CHECK YES OR NO. This is what people seem to overlook...
They didn’t do this overnight and then write it down on a hotel notepad and say OK boy’s I got it, get the beer and let’s go start a new country.
AGAIN: This is Immediate Causes
Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.
1. frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government
2. Federal Government encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States
3. these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue
You have just read above WHY the South did it!
Now...In order... NEXT>>>>>
Declaration cont.
And now ...((WE HAVE DONE IT, no more discussion, that’s it, they are listed above, take it or lie about)) the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.
(we are done, out of there, we are our on country again)
You may disagree with them on what led to this act, but that’s it. Why they did it is listed and can not be changed.
You can read the rest here at yale http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp but the reason listed are clear.
Can’t change what was listed in the cause.
at the end of Doc. ...”with full power to levy war”. Yes, we lost the war but.. we did it. We backed up what we said we would do when the North attacked us as a country.
We levied war back at THE North, another country was invading us, as listed in the South Carolina Declaration.
We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to >>>>>levy war (which we did as a country), conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.
Doesn’t matter if it was lollipops or can tuna or slaves, the declared reason is still declared.
That might be the reason for all the hostility..
The North can’t change the written past. They can only attempt to rewrite it and push the North’s propaganda.
The items listed in the Declaration, were never dealt with except through the barrels of 10’s of 1000’s of Northern guns blazing away at children, women, civilian’s along with our soldiers including livestock, land, water and the food supply.
my opinion any way on short notice
The discussion on slavery in 1831-32 were, in part, due to the Nat Turner rebellion. The idea of gradual emancipation fell apart on how to accomplish it and what to do with all the freed blacks once it was done. Those advocating emacipation also linked it with forced colonization, which was what Mr. Randolph's illustrious ancestor advocated a decade or so before. Eventually the emancipation plans were shelved, but the forced removal part was later added to Virginia's constitution during the 1850-51 constitutional convention.
I would agree with you that the reasons for the "invasion" of the South had nothing to do with slavery and everything to do with the war that the South started. You take the fighting to your opponent wherever he may be. If the Union troops were in Virginia or Mississippi or Georgia then that's because the Confederate army was there.
Namely paying for the slaves that were freed. That such a model was not seriously pursued prior to the invasion of the south strongly suggests that the motivation for said invasion was less noble than the historical revisionists would like to acknowledge.
Compensated emancipation plans would need buy in from the slave holders and a willingness on their part to sell their slaves to the government. Even assuming such a plan was feasible from a financial standpoint, there was no evidence the Southern slave owners were willing to sell.
The majority of the delegates at the Virginia secession convention of 1861 were pro-Union. In fact, on April 4, 1861 the convention voted not to secede. Even after the firing on Ft. Sumter (in which there was no casualties), the convention thought hosilities could be avoided. Any hopes for peace were dashed when Lincoln called for 75,000 troops on April 15, 1861 for an invasion of the South.
The Govenor of NC responded as follows:
Your dispatch is recd. and if genuine which its extraordinary character leads me to doubt I have to say in reply that I regard the levy of troops made by the Administration for the purpose of subjugating the States of the South, as in violation of the Constitution and a gross usurpation of power. I can be no party to this wicked violation of the laws of the country, and to this war upon the liberties of a free people. You can get no troops from North Carolina. I will reply more in detail when your call is received by mail.
John W. Ellis
Gov. of N.C.
That's like saying any hopes for peace were dashed on December 8, 1941 when Roosevelt asked Congress for a declaration of war. Strictly speaking that may be true but it ignores the fact that Japan initiated hostilities by attacking Pearl Harbor the day before. Likewise Lincoln did call up troops on April 15. But that was three days after the South had initiated hostilities by bombarding Sumter into surrender. So to blame the war on his calling up the troops ignores the act that made such a callup necessary.
They were looking for an excuse to be offended and *surprise* they weren’t disappointed ;’)
Your analogy would be valid if the US had first sent an armed flotilla into Tokyo Bay and no one was killed at Pearl Harbor.
Tokyo Bay was not the property of the U.S. Fort Sumter was.
...and no one was killed at Pearl Harbor.
Ah, so if the Japanese had sunk all those ships and bombed all those airplanes and had, through some miracle, not killed anyone then it'd be OK?
What about the US warships that were sent to supply Fort Sumter? Were they not in South Carolina waters? Is that not an act of war?
You can read any number of sources and come to the conclusion that the firing on Ft. Sumter did not push the border states into the Confederacy. The border states were willing to stay in the Union provided the cotton sates were not coerced into staying. The planned invasion of the South forced the border states to make their decision. If a Union soldier would have asked a Confederate soldier why they fought, the great majority would say “because you are here.”
The fact is, the federal government lost the consent of the governed in those states that seceded.
No, they were in American waters. However, I agree that it was an act of war to fire upon them.
‘Any hopes for peace were dashed when Lincoln called for 75,000 troops on April 15, 1861 for an invasion of the South.”
The South wasn’t really looking for peace. I think the South wanted war and did everything they could to get it regardless of the outcome.
Looking for peace started about 1852 Declaration of the Immediate Causes, and ended 8 years later on Dec. 24, 1860 enough is enough they said. The rest is history.
The Revolutionary War was not so long back for these people and their sons.
Southerners only talk so much and the size and number of the enemy don’t really matter most of the time. They could go just so long without a fight. Remember S.C. upstate (Kings Mt.) and North Ga. is the heart of the Scot-Irish-German.
“because you are here.”
The best yet...So simple.
At the time the Confederacy opened fire the ships were not in South Carolina waters. And I believe Lincoln sent a letter to the governor of South Carolina stating that if the ships were allowed to land provisions then no troops or munitions would be landed and the status quo would continue. Apparently the Confederates were not interested in that.
You can read any number of sources and come to the conclusion that the firing on Ft. Sumter did not push the border states into the Confederacy. The border states were willing to stay in the Union provided the cotton sates were not coerced into staying. The planned invasion of the South forced the border states to make their decision. If a Union soldier would have asked a Confederate soldier why they fought, the great majority would say “because you are here.”
There is no doubt that the border states were on the fence until the Confederacy started the war and they were forced to choose sides. But for the Confederacy to complain about an invasion is no different than Egypt or Syria complaining about Israeli invasions in 1973. Strictly speaking Israel did invade both countries. But had Egypt and Syria not started the war then there wouldn't have been an invasion. Likewise the Confederacy chose war. Since they did it then they can't really complain when the war doesn't go the way they would have liked.
The fact is, the federal government lost the consent of the governed in those states that seceded.
And those states that seceded lost everything when they chose to start a war.
Ask a Union soldier why they fought and the great majority would say "because you started it."
Part 2 from Washington 1861: Crittenden-Johnson Resolution
what Resolution was that?
The Crittenden-Johnson Resolution dated July 25, 1861 the U.S. Congress
The U.S. Congress held the same purpose as Lincoln for the war. In the Crittenden-Johnson Resolution dated July 25, 1861 the U.S. Congress stated clearly and unambiguously that the purpose of the war was to “preserve the union” and “not to interfere with the domestic institutions of the states.”
WHY did the South fight? The South fought in SELF DEFENSE.
I don't think there it is a single reputable historian who would argue otherwise. Lincoln himself said as much in his letter to Horace Greeley.
WHY did the South fight? The South fought in SELF DEFENSE.
That didn't work out very well for them, did it? Maybe they shouldn't have started the war in the first place?
Now that the slave thing is out of the picture...we can move on to a better look as to why...
WHY did the South fight? The South fought in SELF DEFENSE.
“That didn’t work out very well for them, did it? Maybe they shouldn’t have started the war in the first place?”
To Non Southern people like you may or may not be, it might have looked real bad, but in reality the South was totally annihilated.
In a way it did work out just not all the way just yet.
We did however learned the true nature of the North (Union) and its people. The North really doesn’t like it when the Southern people recognize their own people and their own culture without a good taste of shame thrown at us to shut us up or start a diversion.
Wouldn’t want us to get all uppity and start exposing all of the North’s war crimes, crimes which I will leave to someone else.
Or show the Blacks AND whites across the
Deep South the Corwin Amendment December 1860
or
Crittenden-Johnson Resolution July 25, 1861
Oops! to late, I think I saw them both on a large sign attached to a post a week or so ago with a ? mark near the voting area.
They must be left over from our State primary’s and I think they are still up for the run off Tuesday of next week 24.
Southerners are different and will forever remain different like night and day from the Northerners.
This will never change and we don’t want your change.
Winston Churchill said it best.
We have always found the Southerners (Irish) a bit odd. They refuse to be Yankees (English).
Winston Churchill
I think says it all.
Included is another wonderful item people just love to jump right over and leave behind.
Nearly 20-30 YEARS of bitter strife happened between the North and South, with the last 8 years before the war being the worst. The North WAS totally out of control.
again: WHY did the South fight? The South fought in SELF DEFENSE.
“That didn’t work out very well for them, did it? Maybe they shouldn’t have started the war in the first place?”
The start went well. It was the ending we didn’t like.
We did want out of the Union.
We hated the Union and how the North had turned and started acting just like the British / English of old. We knew where that was going.
The South wanted to fight. They were way way past wanting to fight.
People just can’t get over that Southerners didn’t care how big you THOUGHT you were. Y’all were going to have to fight and shed a lot of your own blood. Southerners were ready to give theirs by the bucket loads and did. They already knew how.
WIN or LOSE there would be no draw.
The North had to earn every square inch of Southern soil they would try to take.
Hanging the politicians would have served all of us better..
The South tried and lost but remember, it wasn’t a walk in the park for the North in case it comes up again.
The South lost the war and had to deal with that but retained the mental and physical toughness to rebuild.... alone.
Northerners can never have any idea, nor care/cared how bad it really was and THAT is a big thorn in our side. We just can’t pull it out...YET. WE may not have to.
We may have absorbed that thorn, and it helped to make us stronger.
The Constitution meant nothing to the North before the war. Back then, just like today. THE Government is running over the Constitution and the North needs to just take it. The North shouldn’t even be able to open their mouth about the way things are run in the Government today.
Now it’s the Norths turn! My, how the worm has turned.
This is just how we saw the North in 1861 and y’all never open y’all’s mouth except to tell the South to shut-up.
Our forefathers were crying out from the graves to stop this tyranny in 1861. Don’t y’all remember what we did for you in the Revolutionary War?? You know WHAT to do. They won’t listen so FIGHT.
They still call out to you even today if you listen in 2014.
If you can’t hear them, then, they were never your people and you do as those did before you....nothing.
Southerners, as they could do no other way, went to war, regardless of the ending. Sometimes that just doesn’t matter. It’s the spirit that rises up that counts in the end for a culture honor society .
If you understand this, then you can start to understand the Southern people.
If you don’t want to understand your neighbors then those people can start up their diversion parrot talk again. Your crackers are in the mail.
If you are a Southerner, as they say born and bred, and don’t get it, I just don’t know what to tell you except asked you Momma
Well no, the 'slave thing' is not out of the picture. They Union did not fight to end slavery. But slavery was the reason why the South seceded, and they started the war to further their aims.
To Non Southern people like you may or may not be, it might have looked real bad, but in reality the South was totally annihilated.
Oh please. About the time the Confederacy was folding its tent, the Taiping Rebellion was winding up in China. That rebellion killed 20 million people and depopulated whole sections of the country. The South was not "totally annihilated." It was barely scratched by comparison to other revolutions. In all history there is no example of a people who launched and lost a rebellion, and who suffered less and were incorporated back into political power faster than the Southern U.S.
The start went well. It was the ending we didn’t like.
That's the chance you take when you start a war. Once you begin it you have nobody but yourself to blame for all the consequences that befall you if you lose it.
We hated the Union and how the North had turned and started acting just like the British / English of old. We knew where that was going.
Before you begin with all this "we're just like the Founding Fathers in 1776" crap let me point out that unlike the Founding Fathers, the Southern states were represented in the Senate and overrepresented in the House. They were the government you complain of. The one you're about to tell us was so tyrannical.
WIN or LOSE there would be no draw.
A famous Union General summed that sentiment up as well.
"War is the remedy our enemy's have chosen. They dared us to war, and you remember how tauntingly they defied us to the contest. We have accepted the issue and it must be fought out. You might as well reason with a thunderstorm. I say let us give them all they want; not a word of argument, not a sign of let up, no cave in till we are whipped or they are." -- William T. Sherman
The Constitution meant nothing to the North before the war. Back then, just like today.
Now you're just getting ridiculous, so let's leave it here.
Your crackers are in the mail
Oh I hope they're not coming with that slop y'all call barbecue sauce. I hate that stuff.
But I think that you may be evidence that James Petigru may have been wrong when he said South Carolina was too large to be an insane asylum.
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