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There Was No Way a P-51 Could Replace the A-10
War is Boring ^

Posted on 12/17/2014 8:16:56 PM PST by DUMBGRUNT

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To: KarlInOhio

No, the Air Force doesn’t hate the A-10. The Air Force just needs someone to stand up and pay for it, so the air tankers, air superiority fighters, and all of the other missions get funded too.


41 posted on 12/17/2014 9:53:26 PM PST by WhiskeyX
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To: DUMBGRUNT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oDz9e2FWlE

Skip to the 3:50 mark for a good visual scale.


42 posted on 12/17/2014 9:53:40 PM PST by Delta 21 (Patiently waiting for the jack booted kick at my door.)
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To: WhiskeyX
Anyone who wants to support the A-10 needs to demand the earmarked funding to do so.

It might not mean much; the F-22 got iced [arguably because it was too good at its purpose of Air Superiority] and the A-10 is good at its job [Close Air Support] too.

43 posted on 12/17/2014 10:11:08 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: DUMBGRUNT
The A-10 was developed as a result of lessons learned from the close air support (CAS) role in Vietnam. Most of the CAS aircraft in Nam were taken out by small arms fire from the ground that either killed the pilot or disabled critical aircraft systems. The A-10 was designed to cure that problem with Titanium protective armor.
The CAS aircraft needed a powerful close-in weapon to disable the enemies weapons systems such as heavy armor. The GE 30 mm Vulcan cannon did the trick along with the Maverick AGM.
The A-10 was designed and built as a simple and reliable aircraft to conduct the CAS well. Nothing else comes close.
44 posted on 12/17/2014 10:14:35 PM PST by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: DUMBGRUNT
First things first: compare piston driven aircraft with peers and jets with peers and not piston engine types with jets.

As a fighter, the P-51 Mustang was a classic; as a ground support weapon, not so much. The under fuselage oil cooler was its most vulnerable point — one hit there and the engine would seize solid in 10 minutes when it ran out of oil. The radial engined P-47 Thunderbolt was the toughest fighter-bomber when it came to ground support. Well armed and armored, the P-47s air-cooled radial engine kept running when it took battle damage and brought its pilot home. A Mustang pilot would have had to walk home through occupied territory. The Thunderbolt's eight .50 calibers, two 500 lb. bombs and ten 5-inch rockets could really ruin an enemy's day.

Today's A-10 is the USAF equivalent to the WW2 P-47. The official name for the A-10 is Thunderbolt II. The F-16 Fighting Falcon is equivalent to the P-51 Mustang — and just as vulnerable doing the job of close air support (CAS). If the USAF is successful at retiring the A-10, the US Army or other ground forces will loose their best and most effective CAS weapon. And, NO, the F-15E or F-35A or F-16C...none can assume the role of the A-10 and survive.

45 posted on 12/17/2014 10:28:40 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: wjcsux

The Hawg is a terrific airplane for CAS and SAR. Enjoyed my time in it.


46 posted on 12/17/2014 10:29:40 PM PST by aviator (Armored Pest Control)
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To: Paladin2; SgtBob

!Sarge! are You pickin’ off Gators again?

We done told Ya them DU Rounds tear the carp outta them Hides!!!


47 posted on 12/17/2014 10:44:11 PM PST by mabarker1 (congress, The Opposite of Progress.)
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To: DUMBGRUNT
Not to mention it takes a lickin' - keeps on tickin' ...


48 posted on 12/17/2014 10:44:49 PM PST by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: DUMBGRUNT
The P-51 Mustang was widely acknowledged as somewhat of a disappointment in CAS in Korea. The P-47 Thunderbolt would have been a much better choice. But, they were available in larger numbers (I suppose.)

The Mustang was highly vulnerable to ground fire because of its radiator location. The P-47 had an air-cooled radial, was much more heavily armored, and carried a larger load of ordnance. The best work in Korean CAS was done by Marine F-4U Corsairs, AD Skyraiders, and a really great unsung British carrier-based plane, the Hawker Sea Fury FB11 in fighter-bomber trim.

The Turbo-Prop P-48 was a marvelous concept in many ways, but no match for the capability of the A-10 and was a bit of a commercial failure. The concept lives on in the Embraer Super-Tucano and sells successfully for use in counter-insurgency conflicts, especially when the enemy has no air power to oppose it. My personal fave for this role: The Rockwell OV-10. Never understood why it wasn't more popular. Too practical for military procurement, I guess.

49 posted on 12/17/2014 10:50:22 PM PST by Kenny Bunk (The fate of the Republic rests in the hands of the '15 -16 Congress. God help us.)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

I’ve always felt the A-10 was ugly the way a junk yard dog is ugly. It’s not going to win any pageants, but boy howdy, when it bares its fangs, you’d BETTER show it some respect!


50 posted on 12/17/2014 10:53:34 PM PST by DemforBush (A Repo Man is always intense.)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

If they were to use aircraft from WWII to replace the A10 there are only two that come to mind. That would be the P38 or the B25 gunship. Both were/are great close air support crafts. Just think about placing two 30mm in the nose of the B25 now that would be a show!


51 posted on 12/17/2014 10:54:26 PM PST by darkwolf666
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To: MasterGunner01
 
 
one hit there and the engine would seize solid in 10 minutes when it ran out of oil.
 
Am informed by a friend who flew those for the majority of his combat career that it was TWO minutes to get the F out or else you were flying a fireball. He also advised that slamming the throttle wide open on one of those while taking off is a very bad idea. He barely survived the experience.
 
 

52 posted on 12/18/2014 12:33:00 AM PST by lapsus calami (What's that stink? Code Pink ! ! And their buddy Murtha, too!)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

Darn it! Now where did the plane go I built for my auto cannon?

53 posted on 12/18/2014 12:39:33 AM PST by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: Sasparilla

Not always! ;)

Many years ago in upstate NY near Fort Drum, my uncle and I had an A10 ‘target’ us in a log truck. We were on a semi stretch of open road and saw it line up/coming.

It flew over us maybe 200 feet up at most. It’s erie how quiet it was...UNTIL it’s right on top of you. Then not so much.

My uncle, an old F105 crew chief looked over, smiled and said ‘Yea, they do that...”


54 posted on 12/18/2014 1:35:34 AM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: DUMBGRUNT

P-51 with it’s water cooled engine was always a poor choice for ground attack. A-1 was excellent until heat seeking MANPADS got good enough that they could engage it from head on. I’d be inclined to think that a radial mounted in a pusher configuration would be hard to beat in terms of loiter time and ability to go low and slow.


55 posted on 12/18/2014 3:16:05 AM PST by fso301
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To: lapsus calami

I heard in high school that the Mustang’s Merlin engine had so much torque that the plane would flip over sideways if the throttle were not carefully eased open during takeoff.

Anyway, we need the A-10. For decades to come.

“PIGS IN SPAAAAACE!!!”


56 posted on 12/18/2014 3:58:55 AM PST by elcid1970 ("I am a radicalized infidel.")
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To: The Antiyuppie

Like the A1 Skyraider was for me.


57 posted on 12/18/2014 4:09:20 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: txnativegop
But dang it! the girl wasn’t hit with the ugly stick, she was the ugly stick’s momma!

Like they say, beauty is only skin deep. The Warthog is all business through and through. Watching it perform turns it into a thing of beauty and those who have come back in what looked like total wrecks must truly love the beast.

58 posted on 12/18/2014 4:23:39 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

You mean the A-36 Apache?


59 posted on 12/18/2014 5:22:58 AM PST by TalonDJ
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To: fso301

The first P-51s fielded were actually the A-36 dive bomber.


60 posted on 12/18/2014 5:23:42 AM PST by TalonDJ
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