Las Vegas Shooting: muzzle flash, what muzzle flash? There was NONE. [VANITY]

First off, it’s a long, long way from some paid agitators at a rally to a gunman shooting at 22,000 people.

I’m very aware there were people there only to try to stir things up, on both sides. And I do believe they were paid. That’s as far as it goes. The car incident was no part of that. My opinion. We’ll see when it goes to trial.

“Deep State crisis actors” is a term that comes straight from paranoia. Point me to a legitimate news source that reports that such a thing exists, and I don’t mean a blog or Alex Jones and his kind. It doesn’t have to be MSM, just something that has some integrity.

Uh, how about Putin bombing apartment buildings in Russia and blaming it on Chechens?

How about the Reichstag?

Are you saying the Deep State is too “moral” to stage false flags against Americans in order to achieve political gains against the 2nd Amendment?

What in the world are you talking about?

“...But I DO know that high-powered rifles including AR-15’s, etc., would create a highly-noticeable muzzle flash or burst of ‘flame’ at night measuring at least a foot in diameter, at least. ...”

CWB has seen too many action films.

The blank ammunition used by special-effects techs contains special additives to increase the flash. Mythbusters revealed it in one episode at least.

“Flash suppressor” is named that way for a reason. The ones used on the M16 family of military rifles (predecessors of the AR-15-style rifles sold to the public) are specifically designed to cause the shockwaves leaving the muzzle to interfere with each other, extinguishing much of the flash.

That being said, rifles with no flash suppressors can produce spectacular flames, but such effects depend heavily on local weather (temperature, air pressure, relative humidity etc) and firearm condition (barrel length, propellant type, number of rounds already fired etc) and cannot be predicted with any certainty. The giant flames are caused not by still-burning propellant, but by gases that hit the external air (which is oxygen-rich compared to the gases inside bore and cartridge) and then combust.

And as some other posters noted already, some MIL SPEC ammunition contains additives that damp out flash. Nitroguanidine has performed that function in large-bore artillery.

Prospective jurors in some locales now must undergo pre-trial training that is intended to purge them of the belief in pseudo-science now routinely hitting the airwaves on police procedural dramas like CSI. Perhaps CWB and a few other forum members suffering from overheated imaginations could benefit from training like that.

5.56mm ammunition is “high-powered” only in comparison with stuff like 30 Carbine. The 223 (civilian counterpart) is famous almost solely for its capabilities against prairie dogs and woodchucks. Kinetic energy is nominally 1290 foot-pounds from the M193 loading - the low end of assault rifle rounds, which were all designed to be “good enough” at ranges of 300-500 yards, thus pegging them as “reduced power” rounds compared to the military rifle rounds of the day, which was 1930 or thereabouts: US 30-06, German 7.62x57mm, 303 British, French 8x50R Lebel, Swiss 7.5x55mm all put out kinetic energy above 2000 foot-pounds and were lethal at ranges of two miles or more.

I know what happened at the Reichstag, I’m a bit of a WWII buff, but it has no bearing on today. What Putin did I honestly don’t care, it has no bearing on me or my life.

What does have bearing on me is living my life. I choose to do it with some optimism and fun. I don’t go looking for things in shadows, or constantly looking behind my back. I choose to not go down that road to madness.

I wake up in the morning, make some coffee, eat some bacon and eggs, then take what the day gives me. In the summer it might be striper fishing with my daughter, visiting and laughing with friends, just doing the things you do in Kentucky from day to day. I might wonder if the trout are biting in Tennessee, look it up and plan a trip. I might take a drive down a dirt road I’ve never been down, just to see what I can see. In the evening I might sit on the porch, drink a little bourbon, break out the old cigar box guitar and slide into some blues and watch the fireflies. It’s a good life. I don’t get all worked over things I can’t control. I won’t go down that road to madness.

In the fall I might watch some football, hopefully cheer on my Cubs in the World Series, go to a fall festival and eat things I shouldn’t. I might rake up the leaves then actually run and jump into them. In the evening I might sit around a warm bonfire and break out the guitar again and lead friends and family in a sing-a-long. If it’s too cold I might watch a good movie, call my daughter and catch up on her love life, or see if she needs any more money for college. It’s a good life. I don’t let myself imagine the government is out to get me, I’m not going to get all angry because someone, somewhere doesn’t believe the things I do. I’m not traveling down that road to madness.

In the wintertime, I might make a big pot of home made gumbo, invite some friends over for a friendly poker game and play until dawn. Or, I’ll get all warm and comfy in my chair, put on some good music and lose myself in a nice book. I might do some genealogy research, check for some guitar tabs for songs I want to learn, or fire up the shortwave radio to listen to strange and wondrous squeals and beeps from around the world. I’ll hope it doesn’t snow, then play in it if it does. I’ll follow every bounce of the ball while I watch the Wildcats play. It’s a good life. I won’t let every bit of world news throw me into paranoid rants and the darkest of beliefs. I stay away from that road to madness.

And in the spring, I’ll clean up the yard, mow the new grass and watch for the first hummingbirds at the feeder. I’ll get prepared for the joy of having my daughter home from college, plan fishing trips, get fishing equipment ready. I’ll plant some flowers, do a little landscaping, break and plant the garden. I’ll go to town and drink some coffee and listen to how everybodies cattle made it through the winter. I’ll help my brother get his pool ready and roast some hot dogs over a fire in his back yard. I’ll clean up the barbecue and smoke up the first ribs of the year. And when my daughter gets home I’ll again sit on the porch, drink a little bourbon, find out how far she has advanced on her cigar box guitar and watch for fireflies. It’s a good life. I won’t look under every rock for a conspiracy, behind every door for a spook. I just refuse that road to madness.

Call me naive if you want. I really don’t care. I look for the good in the world and in my life. I’ve found that’s what really matters. I’m not going to let you drag me down that road of madness with you.

I’ll travel my road, you travel yours. We’ll see who gets home with their sanity.

And with that, I’m through with your madness.

I apologize if your sense of personal well-being is nuked by my presentation that as Judeo Christian conservatives, we must adhere to Christ’s admonitions “to be as wise as serpents and as meek as doves.”

Add in Jesus’ warnings to beware deceivers and deception in our daily lives; Clausewitz/Sun Tzu notwithstanding.

We all have been enamored of owning our own slice of the American Dream as your post suggests, but I am sorry to say we have forgotten why God gave America such rich giftings. Are you worshipping the gift of the American Dream rather than the Giver of this “good life” you claim to enjoy?

Just as Abraham put his dream up on the altar (his son Isaac) we all must do the same, in order to preserve it. (”You must lose your life in order to save it...”) The “madness” you project on to me is the clear thinking of our founders, who fought the enemy within.

There is a certain madness to your sentimental Norman Rockwellish post, as if you are living in the year 1955, and unlike my true American heroes Lincoln and Frank Capra, you fail to mention Christ in your posted routines.

What you preach is that we all should be dumb sheep, never recognizing or dealing with true evil in the world? And that to beware of evil is madness?

That is the opposite of what Christ taught and our founders (and I include Lincoln) admonished.

We are to be wise as serpents, BUT meek as doves.

You got the dove part right.

In real life, a flash suppressor doesn’t eliminate flash, it merely reduces the flash.

My impression is if the shooter shot from within the room and a broken out window, the muzzle flash would light up the interior of the room and still come out the window.

If he tried to conceal the flash by using a blanket over the window, the .223 rounds would be even less effective once they struck any material, tumbling and fragmenting.

I’m curious as to the type of ammo, weapon, and firepower he used. If it was well planned by somebody who was intelligent, it looks to me more like a diversion with intention to be caught.

He didn’t use tracers at night so he probably didn’t know how to adjust his fires. Plunging fire is much less accurate than grazing fires. Much more difficult to shoot down than up or prone. Used a round that tended to fragment. Had lots of weapons with different rounds, though many would accommodate .223 or 5.56mm rounds (like an M-16).

There is a lot of CT discussing multiple shooters.

Obviously survey of the crime scenes and areas within 2000m of the impact areas might reveal alot.

So would coordination of all the security and law enforcement in the area.

Some people say the FBI has taken ALL the video of the area. If they have, I would suspect that would take more enforcement officers than it would take to analyze existing evidence. Multiple casinos coordinating between local county, state, fed, and multiple agency interests has to be an incredibly obvious effort.

Not to mention, these are active security organizations in Vegas, which don’t want to reveal all their security features, in order to maintain their own operational security.

I suspect there are lots of vested interests involved, with powerful resources who all simply want to know their interests are not being compromised by ulterior motives of outside parties.

Regarding CTs of multiple shooters, IMHO, too early to tell.
Sound reflects and refracts in the urban canyons, and the rounds impacting at supersonic speeds, will crack near the target before the target can perceive the sound of the round being fired. Additionally, if the weapon is spraying the rounds over a large area, the azimuth of the originating sound also shifts. Audio analysis should be able to filter out time delays, verify rates of fire, and multiple recordings will assist in verifying if more than one shooter or shooting positions were used.

I find it interesting that no reports were made of the windows falling to the pavement or of rounds penetrating through the interiors of the hotel, except for the security guard. After reading up on penetration tests, the .223 rounds tend to not penetrate sheet rock walls as much as even .40 pistol rounds, so maybe the security guard wasn’t as wounded as perceived.

So you believe BLM, Antifa, and Anarchists worldwide who protest at G8 conferences are simply naturally forming social protests?

Are Global Governing agendas simply the machination of the paranoid?

Just throwing this idea out there...considering the reports that the amount of gun fire caused the smoke alarms to go off, is it at all possible the other window was broken by Paddock to let some smoke out so he could see/breathe?

I was the first on here to expose the strobe light issue. Everybody was claiming it was a 2nd shooter and it was plainly not, it was a strobe light. Videos before and after the shooting show it still flashing.

It as obviously a strobe light, but you still have people referencing it as "proof" of a conspiracy. It NEVER looked like muzzle flash in any of the videos.

“... is it at all possible the other window was broken by Paddock to let some smoke out so he could see/breathe?”

Possible. Likely not required.

Smoke alarms are designed to go off early, before smoke is so thick that occupants cannot see, or lose consciousness or die from smoke inhalation.

Not all smokeless propellants are equally smoke-free.

If the perp was firing some of the cheaper 5.56mm rounds, there would be more smoke than if he was firing US MIL SPEC or NATO STANAG-compliant ammunition.

5.56mm contains only small charges of propellant: only half that loaded into US military 30-06 or 7.62x51mm NATO. So any given number of rounds would generate only half the powder gases.

By 1884, Hiram S Maxim had perfected his fully automatic gun using cartridges loaded only with black powder. He demonstrated it by firing entire belts (250 rds) without pausing. Gun enthusiasts don’t believe this, but it is documented in _The Devil’s Paintbrush_ by noted arms historian Dolf Goldsmith.

By 1914, machine guns of many different designs were fielded by the armies of all industrial powers and many other countries, capable of firing thousands upon thousands of rounds without stopping. During a battle in 1916 (the Somme?), one machine gun section of the British Army fired over one million rounds through ten Vickers guns, without sustaining a single parts failure. Took them 24 hours and they wore out 100 barrels in the process.

Forum members need to stop thinking of the crime in Las Vegas as any deed even remotely connected with some stupendous feat of marksmanship attainable only by secret SOCOM super-soldiers. Distances were in fact well within the effective range of 5.56mm ammunition, and the target was large, soft, and immobilized. And after all the development applied to the AR-15 family of rifles, the number of rounds fired wasn’t especially noteworthy, compared to system limits.