[ConservativeMind]

“A few hundred years ago people in the Italian city-states did not like the laxity in the Church and they rioted, they got the change they sought.”

So you admit change cannot happen from within and external riots must occur, by design? To be fair, Martin Luther saw a number of endemic issues and broke away.

[pbear8]

No, I was not suggesting rioting must occur, I was merely showing one example of how it pleases God to affect change. Usually a great saint preaches with words and examples and the Holy Spirit changes hearts and minds.