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To: Wuli
But it doesn't appear that we are seeing any moral progress. We in the West currently deplore slavery, but there is still slavery in the world, and some say there are actually more slaves today than at earlier parts in history when even the West openly engaged in it.

We could say that going from tyranny to extending the vote to everyone was a form of progress, but they extended the vote to everyone in the Soviet Union, and there are those who claim (with good reason) that voting in the West is not truly democratic as the citizenry is not properly educated and the information they receive is deceptive and skewed.

Currently we are about to abolish sex distinctions. Also, we are supposed to simultaneously believe that there is no such thing as race and only Whites are racist. We are to believe that something only a few years ago defined as a mental disorder is now something that must be respected and enforced by law, i.e. transgenderism.

In what way is this moral progress?

The Christian message that came out of the Jewish community is that much of mankind will devolve into complete disorder and perversion before the Messiah comes. I don't see that as progressive rather than cyclical since it seems to be a repeat of what happened right before The Flood.

15 posted on 01/21/2021 9:07:50 AM PST by who_would_fardels_bear (This is not my current tagline.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

I am not disagreeing with you on moral problems in our current times.

I think morality will continue to rise and fall, fall and rise, again and again over time, in cycles and “progressive” history will only be produced after Christ returns.

We see that in the book of revelations, which clearly suggests that believers will continue to struggle against evil in this world and see evil nearly to have the whole world in its grasp before, at the last minute, Christ returns and conquers all.

I think Christians error in thinking they are conquering the primary evil in this world as they try to bring Christianity in control of the secular world with greater exertion that conquering evil in folks personal lives and attitudes. Even Yeshua suggested the opposite, telling followers it is not his word in secular law that will win the world, but his word living in the human heart.

Am I saying we should consent to being controlled by evil in secular law? No, absolutely not. What I am saying is I think many Christians think THEY are building Yehsua’s kingdom in a secular manner, which Yeshua clearly denied was even His great purpose.

Our approach to secular law should be less about making it a “Christian” law and more about keeping it out of dictating immoral laws on us in particular and on the individual generally. THAT was part of the great project of this nation in it’s founding - limited government and limits on the breadth and reach of government.


21 posted on 01/21/2021 1:10:29 PM PST by Wuli
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