Posted on 03/11/2023 4:52:41 PM PST by Rastus
I installed a compression shut off valve for a toilet supply line for the first time. I had plenty of pipe, so I cut off the old soldered valves and then used Emory cloth and a deburring tool to prep the pipe. I didn’t expect the hard part to be putting the nut on the pipe. I had a hell of a time, but I finally got it on and tight with no leaks. But, I ultimately have nine valves to install and would like to know if there’s an easier way. Maybe some kind of lubricant that won’t compromise the joint? Is this supposed to be the hard part? I think maybe I was just too timid about applying pressure.
I’m assuming it is hard copper pipe, or was it refrigeration tubing?
The there are several OD diameters on copper pipe. And there is always the possibility of having frozen copper pipe swell. I have seen both issues.
Sweating ridgid copper today is not fun. Elimination of lead from the solder has required you to use something hotter than normal propane to get the pipe to melting temperature before the flux chars.
The pipe may be slightly oblong which makes fitting the nut and sleeve very difficult. There may have also been barbs from cutting.
Try putting a chamfer / bevel on the outside diameter of the pipe end. There are tools for doing this.
You say you cut off the old valve. Is there any solder on the remaining pipe? You may need to heat the pipe stub and wipe off the solder. But be VERY careful because you are working very close to old lumber which is dried out and can be easy to ignite. If you have just a little bit of stub sticking out of the sheetrock or tile, you may want to continue sanding the pipe. I prefer Wet Or Dry sandpaper. Cut it in strips and you can wrap it 180 degrees around the pipe. Don’t go too coarse or you may be inviting leaks.
Compression valves normally slip right on very easily. Somebody up-thread suggested that the pipe may not be perfectly circular. That’s a good possibility.
You said you cut the old solder type valves out. Did you cut back past all the old solder? If you did you might have gotten into the bend area of the pipe which might be a bit out-of-round. Don’t cut the pipe with a saw. Use a wheel cutter. That will both keep the pipe roundness and/or correct a bit of ovalness.
It’s OK to seat the new compression fitting on the old solder area but it’s usually necessary to heat, then wipe the area, to get rid of excess/unequal solder. And know your actual tubing diameter. Make sure, by measuring, if it’s uniform. Older pipe might be a bit oversize compared to current production. Make sure your new compression nut and ferrule are proper and matching. You said you had trouble getting the new nut on. Same with the new ferrule?.
Welcome to plumbing 101.
For what it’s worth, I’ve relieved the inside of the nut for such reasons.
It’s the compression ring that’s important. If it fits properly, the nut needs only fit over the pipe.
Point of fact: If the compression ring fit, the nut should have fit freely as well. A consideration might be trying a different brand?
It should be a pretty tight fit but nut is slightly bigger than the compression ring/sleeve so should not have to be forced onto the pipe. Sounds like the pipe could have been slightly flared or out of round. They do make tools for chamfering the edge of the pipe and getting it back to a round shape. Or you could just use Sharkbite fittings.
If you used a toothed saw then it probably misshaped on you, you need to use a mini tubing cutter.
Copper misshapes very easily and I think we are all curious why you said the nut was hard to fit but didn’t mention the sleeve, which is the tight part.
Use a good tubing cutter with a good blade.
Make sure you really sand the pipe, it’s got a lot of oxidation on it if it’s old.
Use the sand paper that comes in a roll.
Good luck
I would try sharkbite quick-connect fittings. Don’t listen to naysayers, they are permanent when used properly. Use a mini tube cutter on the copper pipe. The trick to using sharkbite is to line them up straight, and forcefully jammimg them on.
Every part you could conceivably need is available. You can put them on copper on one end, and transition to pex pipe out the other. Hope you try it.
Sharkbites are not a bad idea. Make sure if you are using 1/2” OD copper that you use a smaller tubing cutter with a sharp wheel. MAKE SURE you deburr the inside of the pipe or you will have some issues with corrosion. The harder the water the worse the corrosion will be.
Home Depot & other big box stores sell a nice “Compression sleeve puller” and you will thank yourself for making that purchase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEM_Ga9O5xA
For the outside you can use emery cloth or even easier is an outer pipe cleaner brush....they are a bit less aggressive and create a better seal for a SharkBite than emery cloth.
I cut it with a brand new wheel cutter. It looks like a clean cut, and the pipe is shiny copper where I polished it. I don’t see any solder. Besides emery cloth, I used a tube cleaning brush on the outside and a fitting brush on the inside.
But now, I actually do have a small leak. And, while it started out a 1/4 turn, it is now spinning 360°. Being incompetent really sucks.
I think the leaking is because I must not have it seated properly. I really could just barely get the nut on the pipe and I put the ferrule in and hoped I could just jam them back with the valve body. I think the rotation is because I must have messed it up with my other wrench trying to hold it in place. It’s a Brasscraft and I see no good place to grab on to the body.
I guess I’ll see tomorrow if I can get the valve off without buying a compression pulling tool. If I can, that means it’s a complete botch job and the ferrule isn’t even biting. And then I’ll have to use a new one, if I can get the nut on.
Nothing can ever be easy.
I bought a torch to try desoldering, but I chickened out when I saw I had more than enough pipe. I’m glad I didn’t go that route. It sounds harder than I had hoped.
I’m past the solder. The pipe is pretty far out of the wall, but it does have a nasty curve to it. If it’s oversized relative to new, is there a way around that? Do companies sell slightly larger than 1/2” valves?
Sharkbites will fit more readily than the compression valve if the pipe is slightly out of round?
Look at that bead of water.
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