The Hobbit Hole IV – The Road Goes Ever On…

[ItsOurTimeNow]

Here a question for our LOTR scholars, did the Dunedain exist before Gondor, or did they come out of Gondor?

The Dunedain are more of a "term" than a "people". The name is for the Men of Numenor, and their descendants in Gondor and Arnor after the great Downfall in the 2nd age.

[RosieCotton]

We haven't gotten that far yet...

On another note, I managed to say about two whole sentences to my friend's brother on Sunday. *sigh* Wish I knew for sure that wouldn't work!

[Wneighbor]

Elendil was the first of the Dunedan in Middle Earth. Elendil settled in Erebor.

The two sons settled in Gondor until Elendil's death at which time Isildur went to Erebor.

Now, I would have to verify this part - but I was thinking that the Dunedan was the entire royal line decended from Elros. Which would be the royalty of Numenor. I'd have to read up on that part though.

[Wneighbor]

gee Rosie, talking to the one guy may have loosened you up enough to talk to the other guy. Give me your friend's brother's name and phone number and I'll call him up and see if I can get this whole thing rolling for you. LOL

[Wneighbor]

And wouldn't we actually really say that the guys in Arnor were the Dunedain?

[ItsOurTimeNow]

Yes, the remnants of the people of Arnor became the Dunedain (Rangers) that protected the Shire, among other things.

Gondorians, on the other hand, became a bit more "fruitful".

At least that's how I understand it.

[ksen]

From the Encyclopedia of Arda:

Men of Gondor: The Men who dwelt in Gondor and defended the western World from Sauron, in part descended from Elendil and his followers, who founded Gondor after the Downfall of Númenor.

Gondor: The second of the two great nations of Men founded in Middle-earth by Elendil after the Downfall of Númenor, the other being Arnor in the north. Gondor was at first ruled jointly by Elendil's sons Isildur and Anárion. Both Elendil and Anárion were lost in the Siege of Barad-dûr, and his brother Isildur soon afterwards in the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, and so the Kingship of Gondor fell on Anárion's son Meneldil. Thus, the Kings of Gondor were descendants of Anárion through many generations until the time of Eärnur.

Dunedain of the South: The descendants of the Exiles of Númenor who settled in the southern lands of Middle-earth, and founded the South-kingdom of Gondor. Their first independent King was Meneldil, the nephew of Isildur, whose line ruled over Gondor for more than two thousand years. Unlike their cousins in the North, the Dúnedain of the South maintained their realm even after the loss of its Kings, and it survived under the rule of the Stewards until the time of the War of the Ring, when the Kingship was restored.

Dunedain: A term used in Middle-earth for the Men of Númenor and (especially) their descendants in Arnor and Gondor after the Downfall in II 3319.

So it seems that Dunedain are the descendants, like WN said, of the refugees from Numenor.

And since I am, of course, of noble blood I guess I can claim either title. So I can still fetch the occasional Elvish Princess. ;^)

[Alkhin]

Actually, I belive the Dunedain refer to the Rangers who were the last of the Northern kingdom who lost their claim to kingship to Gondor. Arthedain was the last King of Middle Earth, and his sons, the decendants of Isildur, lost out on a powerstruggle with Gondor over the kingship. The Dunedain were those still loyal to Isildur's Heir and maintained their role as protectors in the North, ie the Rangers.

I could be wrong about that though.

Hey, am noticing a certain Estrogen-like strain occupying previous threads...about time for certain Brave Hobbits to stand forth as counterpoint testosterone representatives...namely :

Pippin,

Merry

Sam

[ksen]

And wouldn't we actually really say that the guys in Arnor were the Dunedain?

In their entirety? I don't think so. Although it does seem that the term 'Dunedain' eventually came to refer almost exclusively to the Rangers.

[Wneighbor]

That's what I was thinking. But, as I recall (fallible to be sure) when referring to the kings of Gondor they're usually referred to as being of Numemorian lineage. And when it is discussed that they intermarry with other people it's talked about as if diluting the Numenorian blood. But, with the northern kingdom, the rulers are referred to not according to their Numenorian lineage but Dunedain.

[HairOfTheDog]

On the other note... Now would be the best time to do something really bold on the 'friend's brother' front. Consider it to be an extra free draw at the Lotto.

[Alkhin]

ie the post about the Dunedain of the South - THAT is true! I was trying to recollect what I had learned about the Rangers and how it was that the North Kingdom failed.

I have always liked this one of Elijah Wood

[Wneighbor]

And I am really hoping that your wife is either A) that elven princess or B) that you have sedated her and aren't about to be killed before you get this entmoot organized for us.

[Wneighbor]

I agree with Hair on the friend's brother idea too.

[proud_2_B_texasgal]

You dumb things down, they whine. You spoon-feed them, they snivel. You do most of it for them, they cry about having to do the rest.

Surgeons .. are you sure you're not talking about surgeons??? LOL this sounds alot like the bunch of doctors I work with!!

[My back yard]

Hey, I was looking for a clipping on the subject in my drafts and came across this little tidbit. I wrote it about a year or more ago. Has nothing to do with the movie pirates of late. But I thought you'd like it anyway.


Yar she sits meandering the bottom of the sea
Weaving corral hullworks with the busy of a bee
Casting topside coiffure to a barnacled tiara
Crackling deep inside her keep she'll weather come t'marah

[Alkhin]

Mybackyard, that was GOOD!

Jack Aubrey and Barret Bonden say "argh!" too

[Wneighbor]

well, your surgeons are getting younger and younger. and at some point they were the student's of which we speak.

[shudder]

[extra shudder] (doc mentioned surgeons and my body in the same sentence last month)

[ksen]

And I am really hoping that your wife is either A) that elven princess....

My wife outshines that Elven Princess. She is brighter than the light of Earendil, and because of her light I will never lose my way.

Maybe Ramius should be taking notes....

[Wneighbor]

Very good MBY! Pinging SamCree and Ramius to the pirate poetry of My Back Yard. See post 316