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Help me refute this, please.
A software forum ^ | 7/30/03 | Some lefty

Posted on 08/09/2003 6:27:12 AM PDT by alnick

I'm putting together a response to this and could use a little help. There are surely articles from reputable sources here that will refute most or all of this person's points, but I know that I won't be able to find them all.

I'm searching for these as well, but could use the input from anyone interested in helping.

Here's what I'm responding to:

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.”

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq

“U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents.”

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq

“We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Not a single aerial vehicle capable of dispersing chemical or biological weapons, has been found anywhere in Iraq

"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida."

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

To date, not a shred of evidence connecting Hussein with Al Qaida or any other known terrorist organizations have been revealed. (besides certain Palestinian groups who represent no direct threat to the US)

"We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in."

Bush Press Conference 7/14/2003

UN inspectors went into Iraq to search for possible weapons violations from December 2002 into March 2003

And they left why?

Cost - over 200 American lives

How does he get away with this? A Republic Media (Faux, MSNBC, CNN, GE-TV's NBC,etal) dedicated to keeping him in office, because he's good for big business - see post "Betting on Death." And, the scariest reason of all as defined by Media Whores On Line, "Moron Americans" who swallow whatever the media tells them. To paraphrase Mad Magazine, "What me think?"


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS:
Thanks.
1 posted on 08/09/2003 6:27:12 AM PDT by alnick
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To: alnick
The Democrats Big Lie
2 posted on 08/09/2003 6:30:11 AM PDT by visualops
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To: alnick
If you want to know where the WMD are go down to the Tigris River and take a drink. Semper Fi
3 posted on 08/09/2003 6:32:45 AM PDT by kellynla ("C" 1/5 1st Mar. Div. An Hoa, Viet Nam '69 & '70 Semper Fi)
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To: alnick
Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq

I remember that in the end part of the war and the first days afterward, those things were popping up everywhere. Naturally the media downplayed them since they had not been filled with the agents, but were still the shells for chemical weapons.

4 posted on 08/09/2003 6:35:19 AM PDT by StriperSniper (Make South Korea an island)
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To: alnick
Tell him to be patient, we're just finding the Nazi stuff now:

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/international.cfm?id=792292003
5 posted on 08/09/2003 6:37:48 AM PDT by gore_sux (and so does Xlinton)
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To: alnick
Not a single aerial vehicle capable of dispersing chemical or biological weapons, has been found anywhere in Iraq

There was a prototype of a small, crude UAV with dispensing capabillities was also found shortly after the main campaign ended. It itself may not have been a threat, but it proved there was a developement program for such a device that would in time become a threat.

Remember the key words in the SOTU were "growing and gathering" not imminent.

6 posted on 08/09/2003 6:41:42 AM PDT by StriperSniper (Make South Korea an island)
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To: alnick
Many small missiles capable of delivering agents were found months ago. More recently, many aircraft were found buried in the sand. Be patient.
7 posted on 08/09/2003 6:42:05 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: alnick
"Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq"

Even Hans Blix found chemical munitions:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-12-06-iraq-inspectors_x.htm
8 posted on 08/09/2003 6:42:13 AM PDT by gore_sux (and so does Xlinton)
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To: StriperSniper
Yes, there were any number of empty chemical rockets found, I believe Katuysha-type stuff.
9 posted on 08/09/2003 6:42:59 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: visualops
Nice link; thanks, I'll use that.
10 posted on 08/09/2003 6:44:29 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: alnick
Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq

Technically, this ostrich is correct. For example: precusors chemicals have been found in large quantities, along with binary munitions in large quantities but nothing mixed or loaded. A mobile biological lab scrubbed clean, and mustard agent and cyanide have been found in the Tigris, but this is not a weapon per se. Large quantities of docuements, masks, atrophine, chem suits, along with the facilities to make and put together chemical weapons have been discovered, but then again, no deployed weapons. As of right now.

I could go on about yellow cake, centrifuges, drones, etc. that have been found, but the ostrich probably won't ever believe it, or agree with you. Why? It's called liberalism, and it is a debilitating disease.

5.56mm

11 posted on 08/09/2003 6:46:23 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: alnick
First I would contact the moderator of the board and get him banned if you can. If it's a software forum he's way out of line posting that stuff. It's worth a try, and it's the right thing to do.

This individual clearly does not understand the role of the 'weapons inspectors'. They are not there to look for anything - though they themselves seemed a little unclear on this point. They are there to accept from Saddam the evidence that he had, in accordance with the terms of the 1991 armistice and various UN resolutions, destroyed his chemical weapons, launch vehiles and dismantled his means of producing these items. Failure on his part to perform these actions, or to provide the proof that he had done these things, is cause for war. Saddam never did any of this stuff, so we went in and removed him.

If you want to have some fun, ask if he's actually read resolution 1441, and if he has any questions about it. Isn't it odd how we never hear about all these resolutions any more?

12 posted on 08/09/2003 6:46:45 AM PDT by redbaiter
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To: alnick
To date, not a shred of evidence connecting Hussein with Al Qaida or any other known terrorist organizations have been revealed. (besides certain Palestinian groups who represent no direct threat to the US)

Wrong.
To discount organizations involved with Palestinians is ridiculous, as Muslim extremism is by it's very nature tied to the Palestinians and the desire for the demise of Israel.
http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/abunidal.html
http://www.specialoperations.com/Terrorism/SOCGuide/Default.htm

Does Iraq have ties with al-Qaeda?
What evidence does the administration offer?
Some Iraqi militants trained in Taliban-run Afghanistan helped Ansar al-Islam, an Islamist militia based in a lawless part of northeast Iraq. The camps of Ansar fighters, who clashed repeatedly with anti-Saddam Kurds, were bombed in the early days of Operation Iraqi Freedom. In February 2003, Secretary of State Colin Powell told the U.N. Security Council that Iraq was harboring a terrorist cell led by Abu Musab Zarqawi, a suspected al-Qaeda affiliate and chemical and biological weapons specialist. Powell said al-Zarqawi had both planned the October 2002 assassination of a U.S. diplomat in Jordan and set up a camp in Ansar al-Islam’s territory to train terrorists in the use of chemical weapons. Powell added that senior Iraqi and al-Qaeda leaders had met at least eight times since the early 1990s.

Has Iraq ever used weapons of mass destruction?
Yes. In the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, Iraqi troops repeatedly used poison gas, including mustard gas and the nerve agent sarin, against Iranian soldiers. Iranian officials also accuse Iraq of dropping mustard-gas bombs on Iranian villages. Human Rights Watch reports that Iraq frequently used nerve agents and mustard gas against Iraqi Kurds living in the country’s north. In March 1988, Saddam’s forces reportedly killed thousands of Iraqi Kurds in the town of Halabja with chemical weapons.





13 posted on 08/09/2003 6:48:51 AM PDT by visualops
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To: alnick
OK, this is very simple here's how to respond:

It is not known whether or not WMD have been found. Bush has stated repeatedly that there is evidence, and it will be present at an appropriate time and not at the whim of the Bush haters. If they do not like it tell them to go pound sand.

There have been several reports that al qaida did infact have ties with Saddam. Training camps have been found inside Iraq, Plus there definately was an Al qaida operative who was taken care of inside Iraq.

Please tell them also to stop lying!!!

14 posted on 08/09/2003 6:49:54 AM PDT by sirchtruth
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To: alnick

Grounded: An Iraqi Air Force Su-25 fighter jet, partially wrapped in plastic, sits buried in the sands north-east of Baghdad.

Photo by Air Force Master Sgt. T. Collins
A U.S. military search team prepares to move a Cold War-era MiG-25 Foxbat interceptor that was found buried beneath the sands in Iraq. Several MiG-25 and Su-25 ground attack jets have been found buried at al-Taqqadum air field west of Baghdad

It's worth noting that jets are BIG things, WMD are small things. Big things are easier to find. Yet dozens of BIG aircraft remained hidden for months.

15 posted on 08/09/2003 6:51:59 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: alnick
For background you should also read Rolf Ekeus' article on Iraq's chemical weapons program. He makes the critical distinction, one lost on most of the media, between existing weapons and concealed weapons-development processes and facilities. It is those facilities - such as a factory that's been modified to switch from making fertilizer to making sarin on short notice - that are vastly more difficult to identify. It is absurd to suppose that a couple dozen inspectors shuttling about in a country the size of France are going to turn up stuff like that.
16 posted on 08/09/2003 6:53:20 AM PDT by redbaiter
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To: alnick; redbaiter
This is the full rundown on Saddam's disregard for UN inspections and the Gulf War cease-fire agreement:

Timeline of UN-Iraq-Coalition Incidents, 1991–2002
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/timeline3.htm#1998
17 posted on 08/09/2003 6:53:32 AM PDT by visualops
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: alnick
Freedom’s Bell & Iraq’s Smoking Guns
19 posted on 08/09/2003 6:56:31 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: StriperSniper; alnick
There is some UAV backround info in here: How Blix has failed the UN

That being so, it was clearly of more than passing interest that the inspectors were able to locate one or more models of these drones, at the Samarra East flight-test facility north of Baghdad, only a week or so after Powell made his allegation. Inspectors found at least one RPV with a wingspan of seven metres - highly suggestive of a technology that might enable Iraq to threaten neighbours.

When they paid a second unannounced visit to a test facility last week, according to The Washington Post, inspectors caught Iraqi technicians attempting speedily to dismantle another of the drones. If it is the role of the UN to bring "peace and security to the region", this, surely, was of compelling significance.

20 posted on 08/09/2003 7:02:59 AM PDT by StriperSniper (Make South Korea an island)
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To: StriperSniper; alnick
Some links are dead.

Other
 
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/uav-iraq.cfm
CENTER FOR DEFENSE INFORMATION
 
 Unmanned Aerial Vehicles: Iraq's 'Secret' Weapon? 
 
While much has been made of the threat that Iraq's ballistic missile or nuclear programs may pose to the Middle East, recently there has been growing discussion of a less-technical way Baghdad could deliver chemical or biological agents: through unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). Specifically mentioned in U.S. President George W. Bush's speech to the nation on Oct. 7, 2002, was recent intelligence analysis determining that: "Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical and biological weapons across broad areas." The vehicle that has received the most amount of attention is the Czech L-29 Delfin "Mayo" jet trainer.

The L-29, first built by Czechoslovakia in 1955, was the Iron Curtain version of the Cessna. The single-engine, dual-seated plane is a basic flight trainer for novices. Czech aerospace firm Aero Vodochody sold Iraq 78 L-29s during the late 1960s; it later sold 91 of follow-up version, the L-39, in the early 1980s. The L-29 can carry two bombs weighing 100 kilograms or four rockets in its two rocket-throwers. According to the Czech Air Force web site, it is 10.8 meters long, reaches 3.1 meters high, has a maximum speed of 231 kilometers per hour, has a practical flight ceiling of 10,900 meters and can, at most, range 1350 kilometers. If it were to be modified into a UAV, it would be able to fly at higher altitudes and farther than the U.S. Predator (which is 8.22 meters long, 2.1 meters high, and can reach top speeds of 135 miles per hour, range up to 454 miles, and has a ceiling of 7620 meters).

Analysts believe that Iraq has been working on converting manned planes into UAVs since before the Gulf War. Czech aviation specialists are split on how effective that would be. According to Jiri Rajlich at the Czech Military History Institute, "There is no problem converting the Delfin to a radio-controlled aircraft. It is a question of money." Others think that while it might be technically feasible, guiding the aircraft through appropriate altitudes for the terrain might prove sticky. And the president of the Czech Association of Aviation Manufacturers, Milan Holl, warns that because many of the L-29s are well into their fourth decade, "only a quarter of the aircraft which were sold to Iraq are in service."

Iraq, at least, is willing to see how well the L-29 would work as a UAV. When the United Nations was still allowed to inspect Iraq's weapons facilities, inspectors heard rumors of a UAV that had been modified to deliver CBW. On Dec. 17, 1998, during the end of Operation Desert Fox, a British missile blew open a hangar to expose at least 12 UAVs. These aircraft had spray nozzles and wing-mounted tanks that feasibly could be used to distribute chemical or biological agents. Not all were destroyed. Two years later, surveillance photos caught what looked to be L-29s undergoing flight tests.

The CIA believes that Iraq intends to use the converted L-29s to deliver biological agents, noting that before the Gulf War, Baghdad had successfully tested aircraft-mounted spray tanks that could discharge 2,000 liters of an anthrax simulant. Helpful to the Iraq CBW program are two devices it adapted from existing technologies: the Zubaidy aerosol sprayer (modified from its original crop-dusting function) and an aircraft "drop tank" that was initially created to hold additional fuel but now allegedly has a sprayer for chemical/biological agents. The latter is rather troubling because some have been adapted for Iraq's best fighter plane, the F-1 Mirage, and can carry over 500 gallons of payload per tank.

A modified L-29 UAV is not the most effective way to distribute chemical/biological agents. MiG-21s and helicopters have been examined as possibilities, and of course there always are Iraq's short-range ballistic missiles. The L-29 is vulnerable due to its relatively slow speed, adverse reaction to high temperatures, and need to fly low to fully discharge its payloads. And the chemical/biological agents are best dispersed under very specific weather conditions; otherwise, they may be rendered harmless. But the L-29's low price (used ones go for $100,000 on the open market) and restrictions placed on its missile program make experimenting with UAVs a viable option for Iraq.

Sources

Czech Air Force, "L-29 Fact Sheet," .

"Iraq said to be developing L-29 Delfin into heavy payload UAV," Defense & Foreign Affairs' Strategic Policy, September 2001.

Joby Warrick, "Uncertain ability to deliver a blow; Iraq cobbles together weapons systems with mixed results, experts say," The Washington Post, Sept. 5, 2002.

Magnus Bennett, "Iraqi L-29s could easily be weapons, aviation experts say," Aerospace Daily, Sept. 27, 2002.

"Main points of Bush speech on Iraq," Agence France-Presse, Oct. 8, 2002.

"Modifying Czech light aircraft into unmanned plane not difficult - experts," CTK news agency (Prague) via BBC Monitoring Europe, Sept. 24, 2002.

Rich Tuttle, "Iraq seen maintaining interest in UAV to carry weapons," Aerospace Daily, March 6, 2001.

Rich Tuttle, "Specialist: lax laws on UAV exports could lead to new threat against U.S.," Aerospace Daily, Sept. 19, 2001.

Tony Harnden, "Bush warns of chemical attacks on the US," The Daily Telegraph, Oct. 8, 2002.

United States Central Intelligence Agency, "Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs," October 2002. .


21 posted on 08/09/2003 7:09:01 AM PDT by Wolverine
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To: alnick
Iraq chemical weapons search results

22 posted on 08/09/2003 7:14:08 AM PDT by Wolverine
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To: alnick
CHEMICAL WARFARE IN THE IRAQ-IRAN WAR

23 posted on 08/09/2003 7:25:28 AM PDT by Wolverine
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To: alnick

United
Nations


Security Council
Distr.
GENERAL

S/1995/284
10 April 1995

ORIGINAL: ENGLISH
2.  Chemical activities
3.  Biological activities
4.  Nuclear activities
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/s/s1995-0284.htm

24 posted on 08/09/2003 7:40:30 AM PDT by Wolverine
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To: alnick
Some new information.

Al-Qaeda chief told us Iraq supplied WMD material: US

A high-ranking al-Qaeda operative in custody disclosed that Iraq supplied the Islamist militant group with material to build chemical and biological weapons, the White House said today.

"A senior al-Qaeda terrorist, now detained, who had been responsible for al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan, reports that al-Qaeda was intent on obtaining (weapons of mass destruction) assistance from Iraq," the White House said in a report.

The 25 page document was released as US President George W Bush holidayed at his Texas ranch.

The Bush administration cited links between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's Baath party regime as justification for attacking Iraq to oust Saddam. The administration also insisted Saddam had chemical and biological weapons and was pursuing nuclear weapons.

The report quoted the unnamed prisoner as saying al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden turned to Iraq after concluding his group could not produce chemical or biological weapons on its own in Afghanistan.

"Iraq agreed to provide chemical and biological weapons training for two al-Qaeda associates starting in December 2000," the report said.

"Senior al-Qaeda associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi came to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment, along with approximately two dozen al-Qaeda terrorist associates.

"This group stayed in Baghdad and other parts of Iraq and plotted terrorist attacks around the world."

The report, quoting the State Department, also says the fallen regime of Saddam Hussein "provided material assistance to Palestinian terrorist groups, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, Hamas and the Palestine Islamic Jihad".

The Saddam regime, says the report, "posed a threat to the security of the United States and the world. With the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime, a leader who pursued, used and possessed weapons of mass destruction is no longer in power."

25 posted on 08/09/2003 7:52:13 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty
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To: StriperSniper; All
Thanks y'all. I used much of what you all posted. My response is later in this post.

StriperSniper, I hope you don't mind, but I copied and pasted your comments, with a small amount of editing, because you said it better than I could.

I'm not the best at this type of thing; there are so many people here at FR who could have done this much better than I, but I'm trying to do my part. :-)

Okay, here is my response, thanks to a lot of help from fellow Freepers:

How does a U.S. president get away with telling the truth, especially following the most dishonest adminsitration in American history? That's easy.

Okay, let's take your points one by one. And I'll even cite sources, which you did not do.

Claim No. 1: Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq.

False.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1086347,00.html
EUPHRATES 'POISONED'

Excerpt: "US Marines found cyanide and mustard agents in high concentrations in the Euphrates River near Nassiriya in Iraq, television network MSNBC has reported."

Claim No. 2: Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq.

False

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-12-06-iraq-inspectors_x.htm

Excerpt: Inspectors find mustard gas shells in Iraq
AL-MUTHANNA STATE ESTABLISHMENT, Iraq (AP) — U.N. inspectors have reported finding a batch of banned weapons in this week's search — a dozen artillery shells still filled, as they have been for years, with one of man's most dreaded substances: mustard gas.

Claim No. 3: Not a single aerial vehicle capable of dispersing chemical or biological weapons, has been found anywhere in Iraq

First of all, a prototype of a small, crude UAV with dispensing capabillities was found shortly after the main campaign ended. It itself may not have been a threat, but it proved there was a developement program for such a device that would in time become a threat.

Remember the key words in the SOTU were "growing and gathering," not imminent.

Following is an excerpt of an article addressing these drones:

"That being so, it was clearly of more than passing interest that the inspectors were able to locate one or more models of these drones, at the Samarra East flight-test facility north of Baghdad, only a week or so after Powell made his allegation. Inspectors found at least one RPV with a wingspan of seven metres - highly suggestive of a technology that might enable Iraq to threaten neighbours.

"When they paid a second unannounced visit to a test facility last week, according to The Washington Post, inspectors caught Iraqi technicians attempting speedily to dismantle another of the drones. If it is the role of the UN to bring "peace and security to the region", this, surely, was of compelling significance."

Source: http://new.theage.com.au/text/articles/2003/03/12/1047431094432.htm

Are you aware that just a few days ago an entire fleet of war planes were found BURIED in the Iraq sand? I have no idea if they were capable of disbursing WMD, but it shows how far Saddam would go to hide something. A pic of one of the buried aircraft is shown below.

Source: http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030802/2003080210.html

Excerpt: "Some 30 Iraqi planes found buried in sands
Iraq-USA, Local, 8/2/2003

"American officials announced that the occupation forces in Iraq found scores of planes dumped under the sand while searching for mass destruction weapons, alleged to be with the former Iraqi regime."

The officials explained that among the found planes are "Maig 25 fighters" and "Soa 25" planes found dumped in al-Taqadum ( progress) military base, to the west of Baghdad, where weapons experts team found the planes after they had noticed parts of the planes surfacing from under the sands."

Claim No. 4: To date, not a shred of evidence connecting Hussein with Al Qaida or any other known terrorist organizations have been revealed.
(besides certain Palestinian groups who represent no direct threat to the US)

First of all, you're dismising the very real ties that Saddam had with Pali terror groups, which is amazing. Saddam paid $25,000 to families of suicide bombers. A large cache of suicide bomb belts were discovered in Iraq by coalition forces. That is not something to be dismissed.

As for links to other terror groups, I read this article just this morning: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/09/1060360536966.html

Excerpt: "Al-Qaeda chief told us Iraq supplied WMD material: US
"A high-ranking al-Qaeda operative in custody disclosed that Iraq supplied the Islamist militant group with material to build chemical and biological weapons, the White House said today.

"A senior al-Qaeda terrorist, now detained, who had been responsible for al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan, reports that al-Qaeda was intent on obtaining (weapons of mass destruction) assistance from Iraq," the White House said in a report.".

Claim No. 5: UN inspectors went into Iraq to search for possible weapons violations from December 2002 into March 2003

And they left why?

They left because the deadline had long passed for them to do their jobs. If the Iraqis hadn't cooperated by then, they never would.

The inspectors were not there to find WMD. They were there to document Iraq's destruction or disposal of WMD. Iraq's obligation was to reveal this information to the inspectors and the inspectors were to confirm it. Iraq was not cooperating. The very idea that 200 inspectors were charged with searching an entire country to find something that could literally be hidden anywhere is ridiculous.

Have you ever read Res. 1441, by the way? http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/15016.htm

Claim No. 6: A Republic Media (Faux, MSNBC, CNN, GE-TV's NBC,etal) dedicated to keeping him in office, because he's good for big business

Thanks for an early morning laugh. MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS are all run by leftists. There is a serious leftist tilt in their reports.

As for Fox News, the people in charge lean right, but they are the only television news organization in the U.S. which allows both sides to be reported. You will find news on Fox that is never reported on, say, ABC or CNN because they don't do conservative viewpoints.

Leftists employed by Fox: Alan Colmes, Mara Liason, Juan Williams, Geraldo, Greta Van Sustern, Julian Phillips.

Leftist pundits brought onto Fox on a regular basis: Ellen Ratner, David Corn, Neil Gabler, Leo Terrell, Charles Rangel, Susan Estrich, Eleanor Clift, Geraldine Ferraro, Peter Fenn -- and that's just off the top of my head.

Now, let's talk about the title of your post. How do they get away with it? That's what I'd like to know.

How do these leftist news organizations get away with the whopper that President Bush claimed that the threat from Iraq was "imminent" when these very people before the war complained that the president was planning to go after Iraq in spite of the fact that the threat was NOT imminent?

How do they get away with whining now that WMD was the only reason given for going into Iraq when before the war they whined that the reasons stated kept changing. The constant chant by the leftists was: Which is it? Is it WMD or is it the liberation of the Iraqi people or is it all of the torture and murder of literally hundreds of thousands of people? It was all of the above, BTW.

How do they get away with claiming that the president said that the threat was imminent when President Bush said this in his 2003 State of the Union address:

"Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html

We're only now finding this: "Fully armed Nazi bomber planes 'buried below East Berlin airport'". Source: http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/international.cfm?id=792292003

If it took us this long to find those, how can anyone gripe that in 100 days we're just beginning to make the findings in Iraq?

David Kay, who is leading the team of inspectors now scouring Iraq for WMD has stated that they have discovered documentary evidence of WMD programs which, if laid end to end, would cover seven and a half miles. Naturally, it will take time to fully investigate such an abundance of evidence.

Let's not forget the centrifuge and plans for a nuclear program which were buried under a rose bush in an Iraqi scientist's back yard. The stated reason for burying this: To resume the nuclear program when the heat was off.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/index.html

Excerpt: CNN) -- "The CIA has in its hands the critical parts of a key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology -- parts needed to develop a bomb program -- that were dug up in a back yard in Baghdad, CNN has learned."

Oh, and let's not forget about the 300 sacks of castor beans which were mislabled as fertilizer:

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/931304.asp?0cm=c10&cp1=1

Excerpt: "WASHINGTON, June 25 — U.S. investigators in Iraq have found equipment for a nuclear weapons program and millions of detailed documents relating to chemical and biological weapons, U.S. officials told NBC News on Wednesday....One of the documents, from 2001, was titled “Document burial and U.N. activities in Iraq,” the sources said. It gave detailed instructions on how to hide materials and deceive U.N. weapons inspectors, the sources said.
Other documents related to the concealment of VX nerve gas, the sources said.
The sources said U.S. troops also discovered about 300 sacks of castor beans, which are used to make the deadly biological agent ricin, hidden in a warehouse in the town of al-Aziziyah, 50 miles southeast of Baghdad, the capital. The castor beans were inaccurately labeled as fertilizer."

Finally, this article sums it up quite nicely: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,94191,00.html

Now, I'm just scratching the surface. There has been an overwhelming amount of evidence which bears out the administration's claims, but I think that I've made a good start in listing a small part of it.

26 posted on 08/09/2003 7:55:33 AM PDT by alnick
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To: redbaiter
redbaiter, I should have been more clear. It is a software forum, but it's in a section of the forum specifically for politics.
27 posted on 08/09/2003 7:56:31 AM PDT by alnick
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To: alnick
Whether or not the actual weapons exist is immaterial. What matters is the capacity for making them. One could destroy every nuclear weapon in the United States arsenal and the U.S. would remain a formidable nuclear power.
28 posted on 08/09/2003 7:59:17 AM PDT by Agnes Heep
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To: alnick
Here's what you have to do not only to refute this to leftists, but keep yourself from thinking too critically about the justifications given for invading Iraq.

Just say, "So what?"
This is not to be confused with the "So, what?" for which we rightwingers castigated the Clinton White House when they used it to explain Travelgate, Vince Foster, Johnny Chung, and using nuns to launder campaign money.
29 posted on 08/09/2003 2:34:27 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.blogspot.com/)
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To: alnick
That is a great post, alnick. I am using that in an email I am sending (eventually) to a lot of my friends.

Great job!
30 posted on 08/09/2003 6:41:03 PM PDT by profmike23
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To: profmike23
Thank you. The people who contributed to this thread helped, A LOT! :o)
31 posted on 08/09/2003 9:25:29 PM PDT by alnick
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To: alnick
One more:

August 9, 2003
WASHINGTON -- Former international weapons inspector David Kay, now seeking Iraqi weapons of mass destruction for the Pentagon, has privately reported successes that are planned to be revealed to the public in mid-September.

Kay has told his superiors he has found substantial evidence of biological weapons in Iraq, plus considerable missile development. He has been less successful in locating chemical weapons, and has not yet begun a substantial effort to locate progress toward nuclear arms.

Senior officials in the Bush administration believe Kay's weapons discoveries should have been revealed as they were made. However, a decision, approved by President Bush, was made to wait until more was discovered and then announce it -- probably in September. Link

32 posted on 08/10/2003 12:07:34 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty
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